EV14 Injectors evolving .

[discopotato03]

It seems everyone has or is jumping on the Bosch EV14 bandwagon and things are getting better for us in the aftermarket .

These first turned up in OE apps because earlier injector styles were struggling to meet emissions and consumption targets set by various regulators . Not long after various mobs found out that if you removed the multi holed diffuser plate off the tip then they flowed a whole heap more . Result , cheap high flow injectors based on more modern cores than the older EV1 and EV6 types . The more modern core had lighter faster reacting parts and were electrically better for aftermarket engine management . You got all that reasonably easily but you also get a spray pattern that's supposed to be narrow and the droplets larger than Bosh would have liked it . 

Currently Bosch are making higher flowing versions of the EV14 and these all have diffuser plates similar to the OE ones . They are supposed to atomise the fuel far better than the de capped ones and they can also have multiple sprays and various cone angle sprays as well , it all depends on how they have the holes set up in that diffuser plate .

Gotta run back later .    

[discopotato03]

Anyway I looked into what people are using in XR6T engines and R35GTR engines because being later vehicles owners want more power and they want the drivability and reasonable consumption to go with it . Also both these engines have injectors loosely based on the Bosch EV6 format - similar to Neo RB25 and the 3/4 length EV14 .

Initially the Ford and late Nissan people bought de capped (modified) EV14s because they were larger capacity and they fitted . They helped them make big power but the drivability suffered and they got RS consumption and cold starting issues . The GTR crowd didn't like the unburnt fuel soot all over the backs of their cars either , Ii didn't seem to matter where they got their modified OE injectors or what they paid for them .

Anyway Bosch started making higher flowing EV14s and they have a diffuser plate on them obviously to break up the fuel spray and make them atomise the fuel better . To me its logical that highly atomised fuel will burn better and tends to be carried into the cylinders more easily . The worst case scenario I think is when the fuel dribbles as very low pulse widths and when it starts to spray the fuel droplets are too big and generally look for a port wall to run along . Most people realise that fuel going into a cylinder in the wrong state doesn't burn too well and often goes through the system as carbon soot or haze . 

There are some aftermarket mobs out there that take an OE EV14 and modify the diffuser plate for higher flow rather than remove it . I'm not certain but it sounds like the holes in the original diffuser plate are made with laser beams rather than drilling and this is how I think the manufacturer can finely control the number and shapes of the fuel sprays . I doubt Bosch ever intended EV14s to work as a single outlet and spray/atomise properly in that form .  

More recently the smarter injector mobs have been making their own laser cut diffuser plates and having them fitted on the end of a Bosch EV14 and the results have been quite good . I'm not going to mention the Companies doing this work because there have been some major internet wars going on between mobs that sell modified injectors and I'm not getting involved . You can read about this stuff on sites like GTRLife and you can read about the results that some of the better developed injectors give . They often aren't any bigger flow wise than their competitors but they sound like they give noticeably better overall results . The cars are said to start better and drive much more smoothly , one person said it felt like the car had lost weight . The carbon soot was much reduced and the fuel consumption improved noticeably . Obviously the fuel is atomising better and thereis better control of the low pulse width fueling .

Just in case you're wondering this injector starts life as a Bosch EV14 040 , short for 0280 158 040 . It's an extended nose half length core which gets an adapter on the lower side to make it go where an EV6 or 3/4 length EV14 can go .

The people modifying them have now gone to more and smaller holes in the diffuser than they did initially to get it to atomise even better than before .

Interestingly the OE injectors in XR6T/Ford GT500/R35GTR have twin cone sprays but unfortunately the largest is t GTR at 570cc min . The twin sprays are intended to work with a four valve heads twin inlet ports and help the manufacturers pass the emissions and consumption requirements .

The modified 040 is supposed to have a single hollow 30 degree cone spray and this seems to work well in R35GTRs .

As more and more people realise that the circumcised injector can give lack luster results their days may be numbered .

Thoughts ? Cheers A .

[Sub Boy32]

Yup, the "040" injectors have been selling for years now with lower adaptor caps and different size top caps to suit most applications, out of the box Bosch have them at approx 900cc at 3bar and and 1150cc at 5bar but they are just referred to as a Bosch 1000.

gone are the days now for needing to modify a Bosch 550cc injector to make an ID1000.....

[Old Booster]

what ev14s for my 32 440cc or 550 200kw at the wheels 98ron, are they all high impedance?

[R_34]

Yes they're all high impedance, at least on the PDF that bosch released to present them.
AFAIK there is no 440 or 550cc. It goes from 347 to 627cc (0 280 158 123). I have the 627cc and drove them a little on 98. They were perfectly fine. The engine was starting better than with my old EV6 deatschwerk 440cc, perfect idle at 15 AFR. Driveability was also as you'd expect from a 20, there was no cons of using such "large" injectors with 98 on a rb20.
They were a bolt-on affair on my engine but I run a chinese forward facing manifold, I can't comment on the stock manifold.

[R_34]

They're pretty cheap too, I bought a set of 6 for 300€ delivered.

[sneakey pete]

Where do ID injectors sit in the relative quality to these developments?

[discopotato03]

The ID people are getting hot under the collar because defending their de capped injectors is difficult when non modified or better developed versions are tested back to back with them - and give better results .

My understanding is that ID was buying heaps of OE spec EV14s and de capping them for higher flow because this is very easy to do . Then they say they go to great lengths to match sets flow wise across the whole operating range . I think Bosch developed their injectors to work only with that diffuser plate . I also think that plate is the Bosch method of getting an intended spray pattern and atomisation , it seems logical that this plate also sets the ultimate flow rate for a given injector valve size and fuel rail pressure . Therefore if the diffuser plates are accurately made the flow rates should be very close to the same . 

Back to atomisation . I suspect that there are a lot of people out there using BIG de capped injectors and because of piss poor atomisation a lot of fuel is going through their engines in an unburnt state . Even in high power apps fuel has to be in a state where it will burn easily or much of it could be achieving zip - other than to carbon everything up . If the injectors can properly atomise fuel so it all burns then you have less waste and carbon gunge to clag things up .

There could be a lot in this for turbocharged engines because they have disadvantages over NA in some areas . The static CR is generally low so getting decent torque and drivability at low air flows isn't easy . Throw in larger turbos and injectors and it often gets a bit weak low down . I know from my own tuning antics that getting AFRs right even low down and at idle can be easy , but an AFR meter isn't going to tell you how much unburnt fuel is going through the engine . Its the transients that are hard to impossible to get right , pretty obvious to me that fuel condensing on port walls is a big issue . If you can get the fuel to atomise properly then combustion efficiency has to improve and that has to mean higher cylinder pressures and more effective heat to excite the turbo with .      

Back to OE Bosch . From what I read the early LS V8s used EV14 injectors , can't quote flow rates atm but I think they may have been in the 3-500 cc/min range for the NA and supercharged versions . I wouldn't mind betting that these and the 3/4 length EV14 GT500 injectors were the base used for many early "high flowed circumcised" injectors because they were plentiful and cheap . 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

At the end of the day we are all playing with port injected motors. Spray pattern doesn't need to be 100% not does 100% perfect atomization.

Just as long as the fuel doesn't dribble in and the correct amounts are injected.

Regardless of perfect spray or perfect spray pattern, you'll still exhibit fuel pooling.

Its not a direct injected motor.

[discopotato03]

Bosch , and others , are making or finding ways to get better fuel atomisation all the time . It there wasn't a reason to do so they wouldn't bother .

I suspect ID has gone down the road of the X type injectors because they knew the writing was on the wall .

If you've searched you'll find that in some applications manufacturers and the aftermarket have gone back to two injectors per port and it isn't necessarily because they can't get enough fuel through one injector . Many moons ago Audi did it with Quatros and Cosworth did it on the RS500 Sierras . Later on manufacturers learned to mount injectors in different parts of the manifold to get the best atomisation over a wide air flow range . They didn't do these things to port fuel injected engines for kicks . 

As was mentioned elsewhere some injectors are using twin cone sprays and while its obviously driven by tight emissions levels it works for a reason , and it wouldn't if atomisation was RS . The fact that some of these engines perform well means there's oxygen in it and it works . Then some people got these cars and fitted higher flowing de capped injectors and wondered why they started worse had drivability issues and blew out huge clouds of unburnt fuel smoke .

Exactly the same issues people were having 20-25 years ago after fitting larger than OE EV1s . Single pintle valve that didn't meter or atomise worth a wet fart at low pulse widths . Nowdays the wise are round filing the de capped injectors and using similar sized ones that atomise obviously better and are much easier to live with . 

[discopotato03]

Something different , Wiki injectors !

https://s4wiki.com/wiki/Fuel_injectors

Also I found a larger version of the Ford GT500 EV14 twin spray/cone injector , this time its around the 630-660cc - so better than the R35 GTRs 570cc Denso injector .

Its Part number 0280 158 298 .

The Ford punters reckon they're virtually identical to the GT500s 0280 158 117 but with a higher flow rate .

The feller in the following post has ideas that are similar to what I think , ie big poorly atomising injectors like unceremoniously de capped OE EV14s are not very exacting things . 

Quote .

"There are no "new and original units" that spray the pattern 117/298 do. Anything approaching 1000cc from Bosch factory is either custom stuff (unaffordable) that could have what we need for spray pattern or generic stuff (still expensive!) that has straight spray pattern. I did my research. The trend to go with low pressure FPRs is purely due to, what you noticed yourself, fuel pump consideration and nothing else. That is not a factor here. It is a fact that higher pressure = better atomization and that equals less knock, better MPG and more complete burning which are all benefits. I even noticed that on my own car after running 1000cc and these, 1000cc at 3bar and these at 5.5bar. After some tuning (so that idle, low and medium loads see perfect trims) and changing nothing else, I had to lower KFLF table for WOT as I was running very rich with these vs old ones. My theory is that atomization with poorly working 1000cc at low pressure were spraying huge (in comparisons) droplets of fuel which had no chance to completely burn so I had to squirt more fuel than needed to reach proper AFRs. With original 298s, I went super rich after the swap indicating that fuel is burning more completely leaving very little oxygen so I had to subtract the fuel. Also look at what real race cars are running, nobody does 3 or 4 bars, they run as high fpr as possible for the above mentioned benefits. Ofc TFSI is the real deal, there is nothing like squirting at 120bar "     Jamisons kicking in , Spud out .

Edited January 19, 2018 by discopotato03

[GTSBoy]

Well, the main reason that various people have been keeping fuel pressures lower than ideal for atomisation is that many of the usual suspect fuel pumps don't maintain the same capacity as the pressures go up.

Now that we have a wider selection of bigger pumps, people could choose to use more pressure again.

[discopotato03]

Sorry , I should have mentioned that most late cars have "return less" fuel systems and run higher base fuel pressure . They don't run a fuel pressure regulator on the engine referencing off inlet manifold pressure . My understanding is that their reg is in the fuel tank just downstream of the pump , also pump speed is regulated by a PWM signal from the engine management system .

The point I wanted to emphasise from the post above was quote :

 "My theory is that atomization with poorly working 1000cc at low pressure were spraying huge (in comparisons) droplets of fuel which had no chance to completely burn so I had to squirt more fuel than needed to reach proper AFRs. With original 298s, I went super rich after the swap indicating that fuel is burning more completely leaving very little oxygen so I had to subtract the fuel. "

A .

[GTSBoy]

Oh, yeah, it all makes sense.  I'm just saying that there are reasons for the way things got done, and some of those reasons are less valid than they used to be.  F'rigsample, I wouldn't buy 1000cc injectors if I could use say the native 725s + more base pressure with a decent speed controlled pump.  Get better atomisation via more than one mechanism.

[discopotato03]

These days we have better 1000ish cc unmodified injectors available , such as the 0280 158 040 , where in the past modified de capped ones were what was readily available . But yes if you have suitable pumps/filters/lines higher pressures then better designed injectors can get away with being a bit smaller - or less huge anyway .

 

[sneakey pete]

Going by their stock photos the 1400cc ones also seem to have a normal plate on the end?

[discopotato03]

Which 1400cc injector is that .

Where you need to be a bit careful with advertised injector flow rates is the pressure that figure is quoted at . With returnless systems the regs seem to be set at 3/4/5 bar ( 44.1/58.8/73.5 psi ) so if the number seems a bit optimistic don't be surprised if the based pressure is 4 or 5 bar .

That aside I'm curious to know what sort of power figures people are chasing when fitting injectors in the 1300 to 1650cc/min area .   

[sneakey pete]

These ones

https://www.bosch-motorsport-shop.com.au/1462cc-min-ev14-injector

500kw-600kw range. Bear in mind most people want to be at around 80-85% duty cycle for full power. Safety factor n all...

Interesting to note dropped fuel pressure down from 4 bar to 3 bar for 98 idle on my delphi 1400's. Presumably with better injectors could then run smaller injectors at high pressure for similar flow. Dual 460s so have capacity to run at a higher pressure.

 

[discopotato03]

Yep , I think the 0280 158 333 is the Bosh numbered part for the 334 that was developed by ASNU .

ASNU make their own spray plates up for these and 040s and market them as 1650s and 1050s . They've been popular with the R35 GTR mob OS , Just Jap advertises the 1050s with wire adapters for R35s . 

Edited January 22, 2018 by discopotato03

[AngryRB]

Where do xspurt injectors sit amoungst the modified injectors?

I have had the 1000's on both the Rb25 and now 3025neo and in both motors when cruising there a slight stutter/jerk happening, worse when engines cold. 2 tuners have played with it and point toward the injector size or the power fc being an old model.  It would make sense if the atomisation was crap at light throttle, would E85 help the atomisation or cause more issue ?

Edited January 22, 2018 by AngryRB