Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Debating going to a Spool spline Drive oil pump gear setup, has anyone seen any failures, weird wear?

I currently have a Tomei Pump, Recently broke the Snout of my crank off at the track (no idea why) this has me thinking about switching to a different perhaps better setup.

 

Whats everyones thoughts on this these days..

There’s quite a few workshops in Melbourne who’ve used them with N1 oil pumps for years now. From Rb28’s to RB34’s. No failures or breakages, have run mid 7 second passes well over 1000hp and 8500rpm without issues and still going strong. Wish I did it when I had my motor built

  • 1 month later...
On 5/16/2018 at 4:49 PM, mitchum said:

Debating going to a Spool spline Drive oil pump gear setup, has anyone seen any failures, weird wear?

I currently have a Tomei Pump, Recently broke the Snout of my crank off at the track (no idea why) this has me thinking about switching to a different perhaps better setup.

 

Whats everyones thoughts on this these days..

If you have a Tomei Pump you do not need to scrap it. We supply a full conversion to Spline Drive. You would be better off with a Tomei as it it a better overal Pump.

D4CB4B58-AC83-4468-B4AE-D96D9D41E860.jpeg

16 hours ago, Frracer said:

If you have a Tomei Pump you do not need to scrap it. We supply a full conversion to Spline Drive. You would be better off with a Tomei as it it a better overal Pump.

D4CB4B58-AC83-4468-B4AE-D96D9D41E860.jpeg

I went with the Spool gears, yours are almost double the money.. i agree the Tomei pump is a better housing however.. having that much flow seems to cause more issues then it fixed..

 

Edited by mitchum
3 hours ago, burn4005 said:

I'm confused, a tomei rb26 oil pump is a spline drive. What Harmonic damper were you using when the snout snapped?

Its still driven by the conventional method 2 flat spots on drive.. there are splines on the Tomei gears but not technically a spline drive.. my Tomei didnt fail me however it got pretty beat up with the crank snout breaking. I was using a Ross pulley.

I went back to an N1 pump housing i ported the entry and exits so it flows a little easier.. 

Tomei pump is good and all but having that much flow isnt really needed IMO.. causes more issues than it fixes with oil pooling in head and or sucking sump dry... Stock VG30 pumps and 2JZ pumps work just fine for 1000hp.. no reason a properly driven N1 pump cant supply a sufficient amount of oil.

  • Like 2
  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

I have installed the Spool spline drive gears in a New N1 housing that i ported a bit. Its in the car and running. Seems to be working well.

 

My only concern was the fairly low pressure at idle.. used to be about 20psi with the Tomei. It is now at around 12psi hot.. but goes up quickly with revs so should be fine as long as it doesnt go any lower.

This engine should make north of 800whp so report back if anyone wants updates.

  • Like 1
21 hours ago, mitchum said:

I have installed the Spool spline drive gears in a New N1 housing that i ported a bit. Its in the car and running. Seems to be working well.

This engine should make north of 800whp so report back if anyone wants updates.

Would be good if you have a few pics of the work on your pump housing?

And with the hp level, presuming you might have the right sensor setup to log oil pressure?  Be good if you can post up a log run to show oil pump performance

FWIW (might not even be on-topic) but I also decided to NOT go the spline drive route, after reading countless forums, blog posts, watching fat Jim talk about oil pumps and shit it seems the general consensus is that the spline drive needs the motor to have perfect tolerances, etc.

Most of the time when we build motors, we all end up line boring the block, this "generally" shifts the crank position by a bee's dick and because your oil pumps cannot be shifted that direction by whatever you end up unevenly driving the spline drive.

With my new motor for the shitbox, I just re-used the OEM NEO oil pump (which I believe it similar as a N1) and used the Spool billet gears. Crank was machined down, and the extended collar fitted with 2x grub screws.

I also run a host of sensors and can log oil pressure vs. engine speed vs. oil temp and water temp for anyone interested. It's on a Haltech Elite with no additional boxes (no need to insert Haltech box jokes). Happy to post whatever data people want :)

 

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
1 hour ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

 

Most of the time when we build motors, we all end up line boring the block, this "generally" shifts the crank position by a bee's dick and because your oil pumps cannot be shifted that direction by whatever you end up unevenly driving the spline drive.

 

This is exactly what happens when you line bore, and when you do go spline driven pumps you are meant to take out the locating pins on the block for the oil pump. Install the pump, finger tighten the bolts turn the crank a few times to center it up and then tighten the bolts to spec. 

23 hours ago, Dale FZ1 said:

Would be good if you have a few pics of the work on your pump housing?

And with the hp level, presuming you might have the right sensor setup to log oil pressure?  Be good if you can post up a log run to show oil pump performance

I just blended the entry and exits inside the pump so they would flow better than a straight sharp edged hole.

3 hours ago, r34unit said:

This is exactly what happens when you line bore, and when you do go spline driven pumps you are meant to take out the locating pins on the block for the oil pump. Install the pump, finger tighten the bolts turn the crank a few times to center it up and then tighten the bolts to spec. 

I used a dial indicator to setup the pump, drilled the dowel holes larger in pump housing and centered pump over crank with 2 dial indicators. What ive noticed over the years of building these engines is even from the factory..  the alignment isnt spot on, which could be the reason some guys get away with stock oil pumps alot longer than others.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Good news!!! Changed the O ring today and I’ve got the “pssshhhh” back when I open the fuel cap 😂🙌🏼🙌🏼 It was 100% the O ring because that bloody thing was inside the fuel tank 😂😂😂😂😂 Fitting new fuel pump was a pain as always since the DW is a bit longer than stock. But she’s running!!! ❤️
    • PWM quite literally just chops the ful 12V voltage on and off at whatever duty cycle you're running it at. If you're running it 100%, then it is on full voltage all the time, same as if there was no PWM. If you run it at 50% duty cycle, it is only seeing the full 12V half of the time. This is broadly equivalent to running it at 6V. But the crucial difference is that motors (and a lot of other loads) don't like being powered at low volts. They will either fail to start rotating, or draw a shit ton of current, or other undesirable things. But if you give them the full volt, and then a short period of no volts, and then some more full volts, then the times when they are seeing power they are seeing all the voltage, and they are happy. But you get the performance out of them as if they were only seeing that fraction of the full voltage. It is not really easy to answer your question about what flow you will get out of it at 50% duty cycle. I can tell you that it is not as simple as you think. For a start, that 460 L/h pump is not going to flow 460 when you're on boost. When you're on boost you will be somewhere down the sloping part of that red line. If you have 15 psi of boost, then the pump can only deliver about 95 gal/h, which is <380L/h. So your simple 50% on 460 = 230 wasn't going to work anyway. But also, it won't deliver 50% of 380 either, because when you devolt or PWM trim th epower being fed to the pump, it is not able to deliver flow or pressure in the same way. 50% duty cycle will probably produce <50% of the full voltage flow. The way to find out what duty cycle you need to run it at at low load (ie, at idle) is to idle it and turn the DC down until you start to lose fuel pressure, then turn it back up above that with some extra for safety. And then you do the same thing at full load, in case it doesn't need anywhere near 100% DC. And if you're careful/caution/prudent, you will also do it at a couple of loads in between so you can shape the DC map against load. It might not be linear between the two end points.
    • Man that dinner was such a long time ago....2010! I would only replace the rubber coolant lines with silicone these days; cheap, readily available and will last for ever. You will need new hose clamps though eg https://justjap.com/products/cooling-pro-silicone-engine-heater-hose-set-black-nissan-r32-gtr-rb26dett
    • I wouldn't look too hard at what they did with the R32 GTR in endurance racing in Australia... Lots of things weren't actually available from the factory in the way those cars ran them... Japan also followed what Fred Gibson was doing here with some of there endurance cars in Japan... Australia is also the reason for things like the Brembo brakes, and the change in the gearbox... And quite a few other tricks they used to pull. There's a few other SAU peeps still on these forums that will have heard the stories direct from Alan Heaphy, Fred Gibson, and Jim Richards when we were lucky enough to have a great dinner with them
    • For all the talk of "these parts are junk" I generally recommend OEM because it's really not as bad as claimed. I have never seen or heard of a case like the N63 where the oil returns completely clog with coked oil for example in ~10 years or less. Would it be nice if it were a straighter path? I guess, but most modern cars use a scavenge pump instead of a pure gravity return. Also the factory lines that would be relatively simple to convert to braided are generally speaking hardlines from the factory. I would consider braided line to be a regression, not an improvement. It's also been engineered such that all the hardlines have appropriate strain relief where needed. There's absolutely room for improvement, for example the HKS advantage heritage intake piping shows just how much can be done to make the turbos fight each other less in OEM twin turbo configuration and reduce compressor surge but it's rarely a simple/straightforward process. I recommend looking at what the group A/N1 cars did, generally speaking the changes they made were necessary and proven in endurance racing.
×
×
  • Create New...