Why Install Sump Baffle In Rb26 When It Already Has One?

[Scooby]

Guys;

I've read the threads on here regarding sump baffles, SBS and the RB26 engine. My engine maunual shows that the RB26 already has baffles installed in the sump.

At the excuse of showing my ignorance, what is it about the standard ones that makes them unsuitable for track work. Is it a lack of anti surge baffling?

[knore]

Im not an expert but i think the problem is heat and therefor the standard baffle doesnt hold enough oil.

[Merli]

The standard baffles do a crappy job of keeping the oil under the pickup under strenuous cornering...

[gtrken]

Std baffle is more a windage tray which attempts to separate the crank from the sump oil.

There are no swing gates or any sort of surround around the pickup and the oil can freely slosh from side to side under cornering/braking/accelerating.

Aftermarket baffles have the gates/surround but do not increase oil capacity.

A trust sump extension or Performance metalcraft sump is reqd to do that.

Run a GTR more than 1/2L low on oil at a track day at your own risk and if you are a good steerer on race spec tyres even a full sump wont help...

Cheers

Ken

[meshmesh]

Merli,

Wasn't there recently a thread, about sump baffles and Ben from Racepace (can't recall exactly the quote) but mentioned baffles aren't neccessary, it's all about the oil you use on a track??

[Merli]

Yeah... NRB said he was talking to Ben and he claimed that most oil starvation problems were because of poor oil choice... I asked NRB to elaborate, but he didn't

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...99&postcount=86

[meshmesh]

OK! Thanks.

[gtrken]

  meshmesh said:

Merli,

Wasn't there recently a thread, about sump baffles and Ben from Racepace (can't recall exactly the quote) but mentioned baffles aren't neccessary, it's all about the oil you use on a track??

WTF??

I don't think so.

Watch the oil pressure gauge( decent aftermarket one) on a GTR through the long sweeper at barbagallo and tell me its not oil starvation...

cheers

ken

[PHATR32]

would over filling the engine help? e.g putting in an extra 2 or 3 liters?

steve

[Merli]

  PHATR32 said:

would over filling the engine help? e.g putting in an extra 2 or 3 liters?

steve

Yes... overfilling a litre or two will help, but it's only a band-aid solution, and you STILL risk oil starvation. Is it worth the risk? RB26DETTs aren't cheap to rebuild or replace :Oops:

[NRB]

  Merli said:

Yeah... NRB said he was talking to Ben and he claimed that most oil starvation problems were because of poor oil choice... I asked NRB to elaborate, but he didn't

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...99&postcount=86

Sorry Merli, I thought I did... Ben told me that there's quite a few guys running very fast times with standard sumps that haven't run into problems. He also said to me that a lot of blokes were running oil with too low a viscosity - oils with the viscosity of water being a big problem causing the spun bearings...

Ben didn't say it was overkill to replace the sump etc, all I stated was that he said a lot of failures were due to poor oil choice. Again sorry about any confusion.

[Merli]

Cheers Nick...

So we should be using a thicker oil then? Wouldn't that have the follow-on effect of slowing oil flow and perhaps limiting oil flow back down into the sump? :confused: So obviously there's too thin, and too thick. What's the "happy medium"?

I'm using Castrol Forumla R 10W60... It's what CRD uses in all their big RB26 engines...

What does Ben recommend?

[shoey]

I have just gone through the whole experience of spinning a bearing at a track day after 5 laps. Before the track day I put brand new Castrol R oil (and filter) and filled it to the high point. I would not recommend using a GTR on the track without a sump baffle installed. I had one custom made that adds another 2.5l of capacity and has proper baffling that has trap doors to stop oil surge. I will gladly post picks if anyone is interested?

Also going to place the restrictor in the block and running an external oil return line as per Sydneykids suggestion. I do not want the same thing happening again next time I am on the track.

[Duncan]

shoey, it would be great if you could post in this thread http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...+engine+failure

[GTRgeoff]

Just a couple of informative links on lubrication, adding to the discussion on thicker oil use.

http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/lubricat...%20concepts.htm

http://www.lubricatingoildepot.com/engine-oil.html

http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/lubricat...%20concepts.htm

http://www.infodotinc.com/engine3/en32-37.htm

So the key is not too thick and not too thin. Still determining the best result.

Ken has a good point, but watching the oil guage through a fast sweeper??????

[gtrken]

  skylinegeoff said:

Just a couple of informative links on lubrication, adding to the discussion on thicker oil use.

http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/lubricat...%20concepts.htm

http://www.lubricatingoildepot.com/engine-oil.html

http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/lubricat...%20concepts.htm

http://www.infodotinc.com/engine3/en32-37.htm

So the key is not too thick and not too thin. Still determining the best result.

 

Ken has a good point, but watching the oil guage through a fast sweeper??????

Note I said a fast acting gauge, which the factory one most definetely isn't !

I use a Greddy peak/recall with reset for low oil and this brings the light on.

I have had the gauge drop to 1kg/cm thingy type number and the factory gauge is still showing 4 kg whatever they ares...

Cheers

ken

[GTRgeoff]

Nice Ken. Would be interesting data to log at high resolution.

1kg/cm^2 is about 1 bar or 14.22 psi, which is a pathetic amount of pressure, but in a dynamic fluid bearing it is not the delivery pressure that provides the actual lubrication but the viscosity of the oil, so if zero pressure where there (meaning air pickup) the bearing would run dry, meaning metal on metal and probable death. Any measurable pressure means the bearing is lubricated. A higher viscosity oil would result in an almost immeasurable drop in power, but would need less oil flow volume for the same lubrication task and greater resistance to inertial surging. Temperatires in the oil may increase so a cooler would be advisable. Nothing comes free.

Still looking for the perfect multigrade oil spec though.

[ferni]

I'm also using Castrol Formula R Synth 10w60...

i added an extra litre in before the track day i went to at winton.. didn't have any problems while i was there... but im running on road tyres, not semi comp

but snowman on the other hand has standard sump baffle, runs semi comps and has done heaps of track days with no problems yet?

[Snowman]

But apparently thats because I'm a naive dickhead and work on the theory of what I don't know can't hurt me.

So if anyone else needs some advice on how to turn a blind eye to a potential disaster because they either cbf or can't afford to fix it then come talk to me. This is my area of expertise.

[NRB]

  Merli said:

Cheers Nick...

So we should be using a thicker oil then? Wouldn't that have the follow-on effect of slowing oil flow and perhaps limiting oil flow back down into the sump? :confused: So obviously there's too thin, and too thick. What's the "happy medium"?

I'm using Castrol Forumla R 10W60... It's what CRD uses in all their big RB26 engines...  

What does Ben recommend?

No problem Andrew. Ben recommended 10W60 just like you're using. I like Castrol Formula R syth myself... pity it doesn't smell like the old Historic Formula R mineral oil I run in the Mini; beautiful smell. :Oops: