Single turbo upgrade - sizing options for a mild 2.6

[r32-25t]

Educated guess says with wastegates off the manifold 

[shodan]

On 1/24/2019 at 6:33 PM, Mick_o said:

Trust me when i say the 1.05 wont be laggy.

I have an EFR 7670 1.05 on my Stock motor 4G63 Evo 9 and i make 500nm by 4000rpm & make 250kw by 4500rpm. I know its not the same turbo but it is 600cc & 2 cylinders smaller so on a "scale of things" is very relative i think. 

As i said save yourself money in the long run by "living with extra lag" its honestly a far better proposition than the abortion you are talking about doing mate!

Essentially you are destroying a turbine housing making it not worthy of buying welding up the gate. You will also need to modify your dump pipe as the IWG housing is way longer than the EWG

Next question is. How are you planning on controlling boost if you are going to weld the gate shut? 

If I can find someone with a similar setup I'll definitely try and get a steer to see how it responds for myself.

Hear what you're saying but honestly it's going to be a couple of years before the bottom end gets done. I can''t imagine it would be difficult to offload the housing if it all works well.

As for the dump pipe, to make up for the reduced length all I'll need to do is add a small extender section of tube with vbands on either side, no other changes

 

On 1/24/2019 at 7:42 PM, r32-25t said:

Educated guess says with wastegates off the manifold 

Yeah exactly. Looking at either a custom model or one of those swanky Garage Whifbitz ones.

[Kinkstaah]

I would prefer a 7670 with 1.05 vs a 8374 with a .92.

You very rarely regret going the larger rear, the harder you drive the car the more you will appreciate having some extra breathing room with the turbine housing.

Note: Either turbo is well into the category of "driven hard".

Get the 1.05, go EWG. It will be a healthier result even if the boost comes on 100rpm later, it will be a better thing to drive.

[Lithium]

On 1/30/2019 at 12:19 PM, Kinkstaah said:

I would prefer a 7670 with 1.05 vs a 8374 with a .92.

You very rarely regret going the larger rear, the harder you drive the car the more you will appreciate having some extra breathing room with the turbine housing.

Note: Either turbo is well into the category of "driven hard".

Get the 1.05, go EWG. It will be a healthier result even if the boost comes on 100rpm later, it will be a better thing to drive.

To add to this, I've never seen anyone downgrade an EFR - either to a smaller sized EFR, or to a smaller housing... if anything, they go UP.   

[shodan]

On 1/30/2019 at 10:19 AM, Kinkstaah said:

Get the 1.05

8374 or 7670?

To be completely clear- EWG is happening regardless of turbo choice, if I use the 8374 .92, I will be removing the actuator and welding the gate shut

[shodan]

On 2/1/2019 at 11:13 AM, Lithium said:

To add to this, I've never seen anyone downgrade an EFR - either to a smaller sized EFR, or to a smaller housing... if anything, they go UP.   

I've got no intention of downgrading, just trying to get the sizing right for my situation now.

I was hoping you would be able to weigh in with your experience regarding 2.6L builds- from what I've seen here and gtr.co.uk, you're involved in a lot of turbo builds and tuning? 

[Kinkstaah]

In my case, either. It's almost* always worth going the larger housing. I would definitely go the larger housing especially moreso if you're going to have to get the welder out to make the smaller housing work.

[Mick_o]

^^^^ this man is correct. Forget the .92 just get the 1.05. It just works! Gives you room to grow, keeps e map down, will help alot particularly in your situation where you will still be on petrol, Saves modding dump pipes & welding gates shut etc its seriously a no brainer. 

I can almost assure you Lith will tell you to run the 1.05 too. 

 

[Lithium]

40 minutes ago, shodan said:

I've got no intention of downgrading, just trying to get the sizing right for my situation now.

I was hoping you would be able to weigh in with your experience regarding 2.6L builds- from what I've seen here and gtr.co.uk, you're involved in a lot of turbo builds and tuning? 

Actually not too heavily with 2.6s tbh, though I've been lucky enough to experience an RB26 with a 1.05 EFR8374 and it really exceeded my expectations.  @Mick_o and @Piggaz have experienced it (funnily enough, they're how I managed to end up getting a ride in the car in question), as with others so can vouch for the fact it really was pretty epic.  For transparencies sake it's worth mentioning it had VCam, but it was also a stock bottom end RB26 so not exactly the full works thrown at it setup.

A couple of people I know have RB26 builds with EFR8374s coming together, and @usmair had a 1.05 EFR8374 on his RB26 as well... there are definitely people around to pick the brains on in terms of first hand experience on how such a combo can work.

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by Lithium

[hypergear]

Responsive 400awkws single for an stock unmodified Rb26 engine. After doing trail and errors I think many aspects of the Rb26 is over rated. 

As a turbo mob, I have unlimited turbocharger resources in modding my own GTR, Goal was responsive 400awkws E85 fuel, single externally gated on an unopened, unmodified factory engine, that means, no cams gears, no cams, no bigger bottom ends, purely stock standard.   

After trailing various housings plus mixed and matching wheels. My final result on a unopened S3 R33 GTR was 411awkws on E85 fuel, It made 200awkws and 20psi by 4000RPM.  Power band was streetable and close to factory twin's response. Turbo was built with normal inconel turbine, cast comp wheel, ceramic ball bearing, nothing fancy. 

 Light blue ATR45SAT BB vs Red stock Rb26 twins:

 

[Dale FZ1]

9 hours ago, hypergear said:

After doing trail and errors I think many aspects of the Rb26 is over rated. 

As a turbo mob, I have unlimited turbocharger resources in modding my own GTR, Goal was responsive 400awkws E85 fuel, single externally gated on an unopened, unmodified factory engine, that means, no cams gears, no cams, no bigger bottom ends, purely stock standard.   

After trailing various housings plus mixed and matching wheels. My final result on a unopened S3 R33 GTR was 411awkws on E85 fuel. Turbo was built with normal inconel turbine, cast comp wheel, ceramic ball bearing, nothing fancy. 

Agree RB26 is over rated.

Those results very good numbers, depending on what level of responsiveness (thinking about EFR crowd). 

Real message I'm seeing is "nothing fancy" can make good results.  Make sure the bases are properly covered (turbo, mani, gate, exhaust, inlet, fuel system, tune) and it's possible to achieve the goals. 

Not revving the tits off the stock engine might keep it alive longer too.

[RICE RACING]

Used lots a dynapacks and they don't have a tire interface so obviously the numbers are always going to be high on these. Power at hubs not at 'wheels' as quoted by lots

My figures well over 400 awkw (increase this by minimum 10+% to compare to a mainline roller dyno) on stock RB26 (unmolested factory engine).

EFR9180 1.05AR EWG set up, the std engines. Using the ~20psi target figure referenced here its at 4700rpm using 3rd gear on road.

 

 

[RICE RACING]

Highest power I measured was ~420awkw (prob 500+ on a roller dyno to be honest) @ 7400rpm, just got sick of stuffing around with the stock motor and put a real engine into it

 

[RICE RACING]

Oh and dont ever use a cam based trigger for anything other than a phase signal only rookies fark around with cam belt stuff honestly.

We were always knock limited, tried all of the bullshit half arse solutions out there, and in the end the root cause was found to be relying on engine position through cam belt, put on a proper crank based set up and then no issues using correct ignition timing and more peak speed timing and power, engine far more efficient and obviously able to run at/near knock limit all the time.

[shodan]

Cheers for all the input, appreciate the advice. I don't think I'll bother with the .92 for a turbo that comes on ~250rpm sooner.

Shopping list looks like:

• 8374 1.05
• Hypertune T4 manifold
• GFB EX44 wastegate x2
• R33/R34 P/S pump
• Custom downpipe with gates plumbed back

First step is upgrading to a modern ECU and MAP sensor- Haltech 2000 is on the cards..

Thanks again.

Edited March 2, 2019 by shodan

[r32-25t]

You’ll need a balancer to go with the power steering pump 

[burn4005]

I can recommend JHHs 1000hp ati balancer with integrated trigger wheel. they have a motec 36-2 wheel welded on the back of them along with a hall effect sensor and bracket.

very impressed with mine and a lot less f**king around than some other alternatives that require timing gear replacement and oil pump cutting. timing is now rock solid, it was abysmal with the cam trigger setup under heavy loads. let me get a good 3 degrees more timing into it at high loads (~30psi) which is LOTS of free power.

Edited March 12, 2019 by burn4005

[THIRTY33]

On 1/13/2019 at 8:16 AM, sneakey pete said:

Fixed that for you

Mate of mine is doing a 26 7670 build should be running in the next few months, will be interesting seeing how it goes compared to my 8374. Can't say i'm 100% convinced its the better option for pure street duties, though wouldn't go a 7670 for the track etc.

@Sneaky Pete has your mate finished his 26 7670 build? Any results and/or dyno sheet you could share?

[shodan]

On 3/2/2019 at 5:04 PM, r32-25t said:

You’ll need a balancer to go with the power steering pump 

 

Is that because of the different pulley?

 

On 3/12/2019 at 6:23 PM, burn4005 said:

I can recommend JHHs 1000hp ati balancer with integrated trigger wheel. they have a motec 36-2 wheel welded on the back of them along with a hall effect sensor and bracket.

very impressed with mine and a lot less f**king around than some other alternatives that require timing gear replacement and oil pump cutting. timing is now rock solid, it was abysmal with the cam trigger setup under heavy loads. let me get a good 3 degrees more timing into it at high loads (~30psi) which is LOTS of free power.

 

I've read ATI are great, what about the local Ross stuff?

[mr_rbman]

9 minutes ago, shodan said:

 

Is that because of the different pulley?

 

 

I've read ATI are great, what about the local Ross stuff?

I went ATI, far less horror stories than with the Ross equivalent...