GTX3076R GEN II VS GTX3576R GEN II on RB26

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

The Old ATR43SS2 (Circa 2016) was a bit more urgent to drive, however it's a bit harder to compare as the motor had stock cams and power would nose over about the 6500rpm mark.

Where as the GTX3576R Gen 2 with generic Poncams just wants to keep going. Even at 7500rpm (at lower boost) the power was still climbing to the rev limiter (8000rpm). On the street you would easily get 1bar of positive pressure by 4200rpm and you would happily stretch its legs to 8000rpm giving you a nice 4000rpm to wind out.

Tuning wise, because the torque is quite flat, timing was quite flat too and the VE table also was quite flat, making tuning somewhat much easier than a motor that produces a mountain style torque curve.

Should be good to use the power this weekend at the track, it's been 3 years since I've seen the track.

[sneakey pete]

Will be interested in seeing how the IAT's hold up if you've still got the 76 in there?

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

On 18/06/2020 at 3:17 PM, sneakey pete said:

Will be interested in seeing how the IAT's hold up if you've still got the 76 in there?

Currently have the bok choy dim sum 76mm Hybrid cooler in there.

Did pick up the Plazmaman Pro Series during the week. It's currently still wrapped up, no point throwing it on before the track day as I'm sure the boost control will need to be re-worked. 

[sneakey pete]

Ah I must have been getting mixed up with a different build then

[Lithium]

On 17/06/2020 at 11:13 AM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

The Old ATR43SS2 (Circa 2016) was a bit more urgent to drive, however it's a bit harder to compare as the motor had stock cams and power would nose over about the 6500rpm mark.

Where as the GTX3576R Gen 2 with generic Poncams just wants to keep going. Even at 7500rpm (at lower boost) the power was still climbing to the rev limiter (8000rpm). On the street you would easily get 1bar of positive pressure by 4200rpm and you would happily stretch its legs to 8000rpm giving you a nice 4000rpm to wind out.

Tuning wise, because the torque is quite flat, timing was quite flat too and the VE table also was quite flat, making tuning somewhat much easier than a motor that produces a mountain style torque curve.

Should be good to use the power this weekend at the track, it's been 3 years since I've seen the track.

Makes sense, the drop in response and the stretch up in the rpm could be partly (or likely is partly) to do with the poncams - I remember a mate here with an SS2 ended up feeling doughier down low when he swapped to the poncams, but sounds like he didn't pick up the kind of flow up high that you have when going poncams and GTXG2 (as expected).

On 20/06/2020 at 8:15 PM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Currently have the bok choy dim sum 76mm Hybrid cooler in there.

Did pick up the Plazmaman Pro Series during the week. It's currently still wrapped up, no point throwing it on before the track day as I'm sure the boost control will need to be re-worked. 

Looking forward to seeing how the Plazmaman goes, there could be some real happy wakey uppy goodness to come yet

[djvoodoo]

Here's some info for you guys wondering about the GTX3576R gen 2 on a stock bottom end RB26 (Head refreshed).

Mine is single scroll, T3 with .82 housing. Running 272 cams. Made 440kw on E85 - roughly 25 psi or so. Full boost according to tuner is at around 3800-3900 rpm and pulls all the way to redline of 8100rpm.

 

[Piggaz]

On 28/09/2020 at 1:25 PM, djvoodoo said:

Here's some info for you guys wondering about the GTX3576R gen 2 on a stock bottom end RB26 (Head refreshed).

Mine is single scroll, T3 with .82 housing. Running 272 cams. Made 440kw on E85 - roughly 25 psi or so. Full boost according to tuner is at around 3800-3900 rpm and pulls all the way to redline of 8100rpm.

 

Keen to see your real world review after running the twin butt plugs for so long, not to mention the GTX frankenfails. ?

[djvoodoo]

1 hour ago, Piggaz said:

Keen to see your real world review after running the twin butt plugs for so long, not to mention the GTX frankenfails. ?

Coming from -9's with all the fruit...

Single FTW - It rips! More power everywhere. Transient response is insane, zero lag between gear shifts, and that's with Kelford 272 long duration cams too!

Even on 98 pump fuel which is about 365kw @20psi it still shits all over the twin -9's.

And the GTX noise is just magic, it's like a HKS T51 ?

[Mick_o]

27 minutes ago, djvoodoo said:

Coming from -9's with all the fruit...

Single FTW - It rips! More power everywhere. Transient response is insane, zero lag between gear shifts, and that's with Kelford 272 long duration cams too!

Even on 98 pump fuel which is about 365kw @20psi it still shits all over the twin -9's.

And the GTX noise is just magic, it's like a HKS T51 ?

Congrats on the new setup and the improved drivability mate. Got a graph?

I dont wanna do it..........BUUUUT.......

WE TOLD YA SO!!!!!! ?

[djvoodoo]

4 minutes ago, Mick_o said:

Congrats on the new setup and the improved drivability mate. Got a graph?

I dont wanna do it..........BUUUUT.......

WE TOLD YA SO!!!!!! ?

Here ya go.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

I still don't get why more people don't run the GTX3576R and still prefer to get a GTX307R. Two real world results on this forum, two happy(ish) Skyline owners.

One has a working car, one has just seized his motor from oil starvation on the track ?

[Piggaz]

27 minutes ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

I still don't get why more people don't run the GTX3576R and still prefer to get a GTX307R. Two real world results on this forum, two happy(ish) Skyline owners.

One has a working car, one has just seized his motor from oil starvation on the track ?

Because it’s all about the compressor. The turbine side isn’t a consideration it seems. “750 hp” compressor, doesn’t matter if it can’t get out. ??

[djvoodoo]

1 hour ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

I still don't get why more people don't run the GTX3576R and still prefer to get a GTX307R. Two real world results on this forum, two happy(ish) Skyline owners.

One has a working car, one has just seized his motor from oil starvation on the track ?

I was a click away from buying a GTX3582 gen 2, but glad i spoke with you before purchasing. 3576 is exactly the power band, response and drivability i was after in a street car in the 400-450kw range.

Edited October 1, 2020 by djvoodoo

[Unzipped Composites]

Oooo relevant discussion to what I'm considering for my build!

 

Im considering a GTX3576R vs a GTX3582R for my full time track car. I'm also looking to be in the 400-450rwkw range, although for longevity of the drive train and likely undersizing of my plumbs,  I'll be looking at operating primarily under 400kw with the option of turning it up on game day when I've decided its power and not driver skill that is holding me back ?

 

Normally I would look at these results and say it looks like the 3576R is going to give me exactly what I'm after, but what complicates it for me is 2 things:

1. Dedicated track car vs results on a street car. Considering my car is going to be living in the upper rev range, would it be better to go with the bigger housing for the same power in an attempt to help the turbo breathe, or is that just a waste of usable power band?

 

2. 10:1 compression ratio. I'm bumping the compression up for my build rather than dropping it down, but what does that mean as a consequence for turbo selection? 

 

At least initially, cams are going to be baby Tomei 264's because that is what is already in there and there's no funds to upgrade in that field yet. Perhaps later I will pull the head off again and go to a 272 or something more suited to track work, but I also dont mind sacrificing a bit of top end considering I'll probably have more power than I use anyway.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

I would say a GTX3576R Gen 2 going past 450rwkW is a walk in the park with a well thought out head.

Being a track car, I personally would want a wide power band and run a slightly taller diff to really stretch out the gears. Imagine going through fish hook at Wakefield in 2nd without lighting up the tyres and following that through.

I know going around that in 3rd is just a bit sad in a high powered RB haha.

The 10:1 would definitely give you a meaty power band so perhaps a GTX3582R in twin scroll dis dat could be a potent mix

[Unzipped Composites]

37 minutes ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

I would say a GTX3576R Gen 2 going past 450rwkW is a walk in the park with a well thought out head.

Being a track car, I personally would want a wide power band and run a slightly taller diff to really stretch out the gears. Imagine going through fish hook at Wakefield in 2nd without lighting up the tyres and following that through.

I know going around that in 3rd is just a bit sad in a high powered RB haha.

The 10:1 would definitely give you a meaty power band so perhaps a GTX3582R in twin scroll dis dat could be a potent mix

 

I'm sort of committed to single scroll now. I thought long and hard about twin scroll, but decided against it in the end when I bought the manifold. If I was going to do twin scroll, I wanted twin gates rather than the divided plumbing from the manifold, but decided the extra heat, packaging and point of failure were issues for me.

 

You make a good point with the diff ratio though. At the moment the diff is stock, and I know it's going to be wayyy too short for the power I'm aiming for around Barbagallo, I'll be on limiter in 4th or having to go to 5th for half of the straights, which is where you lose seconds. So I know I need to go taller, and hadnt really thought about that with picking a turbo.

 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

I think 3.9 is perfect in terms of ratios, you can find the crown & pinon from a S15 Turbo Automatic, as I believe the R34 GT-t diff is a touch longer than the normal non ABS R200 diff.

With my limited research the C&P from a S15, R34 and R33 ABS "should" be interchangeable.

 

 

[bcozican]

13 hours ago, Unzipped Composites said:

 

I'm sort of committed to single scroll now. I thought long and hard about twin scroll, but decided against it in the end when I bought the manifold. If I was going to do twin scroll, I wanted twin gates rather than the divided plumbing from the manifold, but decided the extra heat, packaging and point of failure were issues for me.

 

You make a good point with the diff ratio though. At the moment the diff is stock, and I know it's going to be wayyy too short for the power I'm aiming for around Barbagallo, I'll be on limiter in 4th or having to go to 5th for half of the straights, which is where you lose seconds. So I know I need to go taller, and hadnt really thought about that with picking a turbo.

 

I know a hack driver that races a skyline with an rb25 poncams and manual that has done a few 59s around barbs

He has done it with a 3076 gen 1 and 3582 gen II at around that power mark.... he would chose the 3576 gen II for balance of response and power

He did it with a 4.3 diff ratio (but 4.11 or 3.9 prob better) and only had 7 gear changes the whole lap and a setup that everyone called shit ?

 

Or you should buy his 3582 gen II and he gets a bigger one ?

Edited October 2, 2020 by bcozican

[djvoodoo]

Prob needs a different thread, but has anyone ran a G35-900 on an RB yet?

[Unzipped Composites]

2 hours ago, bcozican said:

I know a hack driver that races a skyline with an rb25 poncams and manual that has done a few 59s around barbs

He has done it with a 3076 gen 1 and 3582 gen II at around that power mark.... he would chose the 3576 gen II for balance of response and power

He did it with a 4.3 diff ratio (but 4.11 or 3.9 prob better) and only had 7 gear changes the whole lap and a setup that everyone called shit ?

 

Or you should buy his 3582 gen II and he gets a bigger one ?

 

Oooo, valuable information, I wish I knew who you were referring to so I could have a conversation. Sounds like he should be in the low 57's really ??

 

If you'd opened with the "buy my 3582 gen II" bit, you wouldve had me, but you talked yourself out of a sale first! ? seriously though, have actually wanted to talk to you about a few things on your car that I haven't been involved with, so remind me to do that when you're visiting. When is that happening again? ??