ECU CAPABILITY

[Slap]

Thanks for a great response and yes i believe you.
Nice job on the diag.

What are the voltage displayed on my panel representing?

So you are saying the voltage is manipulated to bend in amplitude according to vibration causing it to become a frequency. Not changing volts.

Would the voltage displayed be the threshhold in wich the frequency works at.

why does the voltage drop on e85? Less noise? Less frequency needed? Magically? or im full of shit and it doesnt wich makes no sense to my eyes that have witnessed it ?

Anolog is as simple as a boost switch or bleed valve.
And i know it needs a digital tune to make the most. Geebz nearly any mod manualy controled or manipulated is anolog tuning.
The anolog gauges are just a unique trend .

The safc can monitor voltage deeper than my voltage displays and act as alot more than a signal bender. It can be used to manipulate many aspects that anolog tuning can use to trick the ecu. No it isn't an ecu and no it cant do what an ecu can do , it is a piggyback that can trick the ecu.
They are very dangerous to your motor.
But can do and not limited to:
Dual maf
Switch maf
2 step
fcd
Reduce / increase signal frequency
Monitor voltages
Monitor frequencies
Map inputs
Look retro
Fool the ecu

[Ben C34]

A little bit of a knowledge is a dangerous thing.

[Slap]

They way I talk is different to other kunts but the voltage and associated threshold is usually listed as a percentage of saturation, which is correlated to the voltage out of the unit. When you test it and smash the kunt *engine-NOT the sensor!* with a hammer you can easily get over the voltage you mention. This then is where you set your gain value to being the knock sensor into a workable range on your specific ECU and then to differentiate the normal noise of the engine (proportional to BMEP and rpm)......... it gets complex but that is it, you tailor find the natural frequency of the system (not by internet calculators or multiple frequency tests like some ECU makers suggest!) but rather you test it on the engine (not hard to do as I am a dumb kunt and I worked it out myself). Then adjust for normal operation and I have not found an engine yet that cant be set up correctly without the need for any third party knock devices, assuming you know what you are doing.
Some engines (rotaries which I know better than most, especially as we run the knock limited all the time) will not tolerate much detonation so you have to know what you are doing. 4cyl engines which are 'noisy' are hard to set up right.
Using generic wide range knock sensors I don't recommend, I wont divulge why (as too many stalkers read everything I put up lol) but I will say that the right tool for the job is usually the best practice Final note is if you are using 'audible knock tools as validation' then you are a rookie, don't hand out advice to others please LOL I talk more about that here below.
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum2/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1590&page=42

RICE RACING Senior Member   Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Utopia Posts: 429

Re: RICESP Water Injected RX7 It's all about knock control, running the engine to its limit (even a 100% standard delivered engine) when I was proving this system. Water Injection, and a real not paper/internetz professional control box, and a person with a brain are all that is required. Seems simple but these days ironically it's harder than ever (too much wrong advice from nobodies on everything from shit electronics choices onwards) go figure! FYI human reaction time to audio stimulus is around 0.170 seconds, given below example of 0.0066 seconds per cycle event, this means the rotary engine will knock>detonate at least 25 times before you lift your foot off the accelerator LOL "retarded" in every sense of the word, love the internetz education handed out by educatorz/trainerz/tutorz LOLZ Anyway onto real qualified information: It's easy with the right electronics/hardware/software, to not only see what is happening, but also manage it (100% stock standard 'fragile' rotary engine) running it to its knock limits all of the time in an active manner, and letting the ECU manage the spark timing. Counter to the 'shit advice' that proliferates the internetz blogs etc, this is the preferred way, counter to their claims of doom and gloom, ironically its opposite (wow surprise!) if you are NOT running a Life Racing ECU (set up correctly) you will have zero hope of relying on your new found 'pay to play' derived 'knowledge' since the nature of knock by the many variables that cause it means you have to run so far away from peak performance that you will either melt your turbine, have poor specific power, poorer fuel specific fuel consumption, and far less durability all rolled into one! p.s Would love to put up a jizzillion pages of information, but learned long ago too many copy it so as its all current technology stuff reserved only for the smart/loyal ones who know how to tell FACT from FICTION Hmmmm, Really need to put up another graph of flat shift full throttle cuts example, with anti lag, and Traction Control!!! which some seem to get LINK'd to the wrong advice again LOL......... __________________

This edit is good.

And i understand about not wanting to post much , all i wanted is a discussion on the ecu and have had nothing but a hard time as some people (stalkers) that give me crap every post they can manipulate with there information into making me look bad instead of giving precise information and backing it up to show me where im 'confused' and or 'wrong' or 'wrongly understood'.

Back to the discussion:

What do the voltage readings i have represent and why do they lower with e85 over extended idle?

And how much timing would i expect to see added by the ecu to the base crank timing of 15°?

My 20det would always recorrect on the timming light back to 30°ish and it didnt matter the cas position wich would suggest to me that its 15° crank+ 15°~ ecu at idle.

Thank you for your next courteous reply.
[emoji2151]

[GTSBoy]

45 minutes ago, Slap said:

What do the voltage readings i have represent and why do they lower with e85 over extended idle?

And how much timing would i expect to see added by the ecu to the base crank timing of 15°?

The voltage readings mean nothing useful.

You would expect to see your ECU add precisely zero degrees beyond the baseline 15° that the engine actually idles at.

There.  That was both polite and correct.

[Slap]

Gts boy thank you.
except why would there even be a voltage if it was nothing.
I understand they dont help.

Why does my stock ecu change timing at idle?

Wouldnt the voltage be that of the knock signal base line frequency voltage as engine noise frequency compensation is applied , along with the knock frequency that is unseen as a frequency as all it would do is change the amplitude of the voltage and its a voltage display.

Why do they lower over time with better higher octane fuel?

[GTSBoy]

Let's go back to basics again.

The knock sensor is a microphone.  It is picking up ALL the noise that the engine makes.  OK, not all of it.  Because it is a piezo sensor it won't be sensitive to low frequencies.

As does any microphone, it generates an AC voltage representing the amplitude and frequency of the noises it is picking up.  Hit it with a single pure tone and you will get a single sine wave at the same frequency as that tone.  Make it quiet, then the max + & - voltages you will see will be not so far from zero volts.  Make it loud and you will get higher + & - voltages out of it.

Hit it with a broad spectrum noise made up of lots of different frequencies and and at different amplitudes and what you will see coming out of the knock sensor will be a complicated waveform with the higher frequencies causing the waveforms of the lower frequencies to be all muddied up, laid on top of each other, interfering because of being out of phase or in phase, etc etc.  Somewhere in that messy waveform is the information the ECU is looking for.  That info is either 1) There is a knock sound, or 2) There is no knock sound.

The way the ECU finds it is to put that signal into the notch filter that I originally described quiet a number of posts ago, then after filtering out all the wrong frequency information, it passes it onto a discriminator circuit.  Now, I don't know what the discriminator circuit in these ECUs actually is.  It is very likely to be a Fourier Transform, which is relatively trivial to do in digital electronics, but these ECUs are quite old, so they may have used something more crude.  Anyway, whatever it is, when it ses a waveform that looks like knock, it registers a knock.  Get too many in a row and it will pull timing.

Now, I would guess that the reason you see the voltage change when idling on E85, and keep in mind that if you are measuring it with a multimeter, you probably should not be seeing a steady DC voltage unless the knock sensor circuit is somehow being held above zero volts, is that engines actually do run more quietly on E85.  It has a much softer burn rate than pure hydrocarbons do.  The knock sensor will just be hearing less noise overall.  It should also almost never hear any knock at all when under load because even when engines have too much advance on E85 they seldom make the same noises as when knocking on petrol.

And, as I have said before, you ECU should not be trying to change the timing at idle.  The idle map is a steady 15°, unless it cannot maintain the idle speed using the IACV alone.  Any other variation in timing that you see is just jitter.

[Slap]

So wouldnt the wave frequency be represented as voltage when on a voltage display?
(Regardless of whether it can be read)

And as i asked...
It lowers because of engine noise.

These filters inside the ecu how do they filter it? I thought it was by applying a frequency limit to what is detected ... is this the frequncy i see converted as its on a voltage display not an oscilloscope display.
Wich i tried to explain is the resistance frequency shown as volts.(the filter)

How sure are you that the ecu cant change the frequency its listening for or the filter?
I know the sensor is set. But what when fuel differs. Re tune pfft hahaha
I know the ecu has its presets.
Its also programmed to run the car within certain parrametrs.

Also the idle valve is a manual adjustment of air to the inlet more so whilst the throttle is shut.
That impacts the maf , the rpm , the duty cycle, the o2 reading.

If the timing is correct why would the ecu adjust it when stalling out only?

What if the idle is to high will it lower it under 15°?

So what about low compression motors lumpy af. Will it try to advance till they pop? Or will they have a way to stop... a limit of advance that it will use?

Food for thought.

Please dont explain the sensor again. Geebs im well past that.
Its the conversion of whats there to what i have seen that i have been trying to get across and share. Im not trying to state facts about the ecu but do like to see them , just my beliefs and experience so others when in question of similar can find it.

Please stop acting like i dont understand what you have said gts boy. It is almost obvious to any reader by now, and so is the missunderstanding of what you read of mine.

[GTSBoy]

3 hours ago, Slap said:

So wouldnt the wave frequency be represented as voltage when on a voltage display?
(Regardless of whether it can be read)

No.  Frequency is a property of an alternating voltage that is completely independent of the peak to peak voltage of the signal.  Using  DC voltmeter, you should see zero volts average.  If you have a DC voltmeter that can respond very very very fast, then you may see it flicking back and forth from + to -, but this is hugely unlikely, and almost certainly not going to happen on any multimeter that you can afford.  Audi signals are at far too high a frequency to see with an AC voltmeter.  You need a CRO.  If you have a CRO (or something that can sample as fast as a CRO, like the ECU that RICE would have logged his signal with) then you can see the waveform.

3 hours ago, Slap said:

These filters inside the ecu how do they filter it? I thought it was by applying a frequency limit to what is detected ... is this the frequncy i see converted as its on a voltage display not an oscilloscope display.
Wich i tried to explain is the resistance frequency shown as volts.(the filter)

Capacitors are high pass filters.  They block low frequencies (The point at which they start "filtering" depends on the capacitance value).  Chokes (inductors) are low pass filters.  They block high frequencies, and again, the frequency at which they start filtering depends on the value of the inductance.  You can assemble these together into circuits that will do gentle filter slopes of 6dB/octave, all the way to really aggressive slopes like 24 dB/octave, and you can combine a low pass and a high pass to either cut a notch out of a signal (allow everything above and below, but not in the notch to pass) or to create a bandpass filter (only allowing the signal between the lower and upper limits to pass through).

You keep saying you are seeing the frequency "displayed".  Are you using a frequency meter?  If you are using a voltmeter, you are not reading frequency, as I have said previously.

3 hours ago, Slap said:

How sure are you that the ecu cant change the frequency its listening for or the filter?
I know the sensor is set. But what when fuel differs. Re tune pfft hahaha
I know the ecu has its presets.
Its also programmed to run the car within certain parrametrs.

Absolutely sure.  There is ONE sound that an RB makes when it pings.  (OK, it actualy probably makes a few different sounds, but there's realy only going to be one that the ECU needs to look for).  Nissan's engineers will not have wasted time trying to make the ECU able to learn what a new, different knock sound might be.  They did not intend for anyone to be hacking the ECU and doing anything to it, or the engine.  You can definitely trust me on that.  No OEM engineer ever wants the buyer to be able to do that. (Ask me how I know....)

3 hours ago, Slap said:

Also the idle valve is a manual adjustment of air to the inlet more so whilst the throttle is shut.
That impacts the maf , the rpm , the duty cycle, the o2 reading.

No.  Not it is not.  The idle valve is in fact a stepper motor controlled variable orifice** that opens and closes at the ECU's direction to let more or less air flow to the engine to control the idle speed.  The manual needle valve adjustment is actually not intended to be used except to set the absolute minimum amount of air that will flow to the engine when the stepper motor is completely closed.

**There's actually a few different types across all the years of Nissan doing this stuff.  But theyall work much the same in the end.

And no, as I have said before, while the AFM signal may go up and down as total airflow varies around idle, the ECU does precisely NOTHING with that value, because it does not use it at idle.  The idle map is essentially a 1-D map, unlike the main load vs. speed maps for running off idle.

If the ECU can keep the O2 sensor working properly at idle, then the ECU will in fact use it to run the engine in closed loop mixture control at idle.  You can see this by watching the O2 sensor voltage flip either side of 0.5V.  If, however, the O2 sensor is cold, or old and slow, the ECU will instead just run the engine off the idle map without using the O2 sensor.

3 hours ago, Slap said:

If the timing is correct why would the ecu adjust it when stalling out only?

It doesn't.  If you have an air leak, or have passion fingered the manual idle adjustment, then the ECU will use delta control to try to bring the idle back down.  It will retard timing to bring the engine speed down.  As you can imagine, this is actually not a disireable state of affairs, it is desperation on the ECU's part.  Low timing at idle is not good for anything, from exhaust temperatures, to emissions.  I have personally seen my Neo's ECU run only 2-3° of TOTAL ADVANCE BTDC, when my IACV was filthy and stuck too far open.  The ECU was able to get the idle down to ~700rpm, which was still above the 650rpm target value which is set in the ECU.  And here's the best thing you didn't know.  With Nistune, you can actually go in there and change that value.  That is truly how you adjust the idle speed.  Mine is now set to 600 rpm.

If the idle is too low and the ECU can't get the IACV to bring it up, then it can and will add some advance to try to increase the engine speed.  But it can't add anywhere near as much timing as it is able to remove, because running too much advance at idle is stupid.

3 hours ago, Slap said:

So what about low compression motors lumpy af. Will it try to advance till they pop? Or will they have a way to stop... a limit of advance that it will use?

Low compression motors are easy to idle.  They are the exact opposite of "lumpy".  As to the limit of advance, see above, even though it has nothing to do with this part of your question.

3 hours ago, Slap said:

Please dont explain the sensor again. Geebs im well past that.
Its the conversion of whats there to what i have seen that i have been trying to get across and share. Im not trying to state facts about the ecu but do like to see them , just my beliefs and experience so others when in question of similar can find it.

I'm afraid that, from what you have been saying, it was quite evident that you did not know much, if anything, about some fairly basic electrical/electronic concepts.  So it really sounded like you needed basic instruction on how things like microphones work.  As I have had to explain things like caps and chokes as filters, I remain convinced of that.

You have in fact stated a number of "facts" about the ECU and the idle speed control systems that are in fact quite wrong.  So don't try to squirm out from that.

Beliefs play no part in this.

3 hours ago, Slap said:

Please stop acting like i dont understand what you have said gts boy. It is almost obvious to any reader by now, and so is the missunderstanding of what you read of mine.

OK.  If you actually promise to understand what I have said, and you also promise to use the correct terminology.  If I have misunderstood anything that you have written, then so has everybody else that has taken you on.  The reason for that is not us.

[Slap]

Pfft . Im not a dumb karnt yet you have repeatedly treated me as one. Saying shid like "the thing you didnt know..." omg mate dont you think its pretty obvious that you can set parrameters on the programable ecu.

Still unexplained is what the voltage reading is!

I understand filters to an extent i have set up stereos and used the safc as an fcd.

I have interpreted what was said earlier and what i read in the article i posted earlier as follows.

Sound to power to ecu. Even stated by the article as volts but sadly unaccepted by you as volts because the terminology is frequency because thats how its read and not the intended purpose of the signal.

Do you think that .3v can power the knock sensor signal?
So in turn i see it so far as a current of 2.4v~ manipulated into a freguency via (audio) this manipulation changes the amplitude of the current as fast as the sensor inputs it (the amps of the electrical current?) Can be shown in a complex wave in an audio wave analyzer.
Knock can then be determined by the ecu.

??" i see volts as thats what type of display im using"
The wire needs a current to carry the signal.
An unpowered mic dosnt work well when listening very carfully. 0.3v has to be amplified or somthing for knock to be distinguished by the ecu.

2.4 v is about central of a standard sensor.
50% up
50% down.

Why i believe it to be the base line of the frequency as voltage and as you said less noise less signal. (5v sensor at 2.4 v can handle amps for twice as much voltage as the powered audio line is running. Powering and amplifying the small signal into a larger signal to be decoded at the ecu. And allowing for 2.4v at (x) amps enough movement either up or down when in a wave.

If the amps of the current are pulse waves will it actualy impact the voltage reading as its a voltage display not an amp metter.

Can you reprogram the filters on a nistune?


You just told me it cant add timming and on the other hand repeatedly contradicted yourself straight after with the idle control valve.
Wich i also thought the stepper mottor was only for marm up and some are even wax valve.

Once warm my car sits very close to 850 rpm where i set it and if i turn the safc up and down at the 1000 rpm it does impact on the car.

It does not try to drop lower in rpm by itself to get to 650-700rpm.

No i wont use the correct terminology as skidlines are a hobby not a job. But thank you when you do use it respectively.

[Ben C34]

A knock sensor is not a 5v sensor, nor is it powered. It creates its own signal. Thay could be where the confusion comes in.

 

[admS15]

Lol

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Slap, do you use Facebook? Maybe you can post your hypotheses up on Guild of EFI Tuners group.

90% of the people in that group actually tune cars for a living.

[Lithium]

8 minutes ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Slap, do you use Facebook? Maybe you can post your hypotheses up on Guild of EFI Tuners group.

90% of the people in that group actually tune cars for a living.

FMMMLLLL, it's hard enough trying to keep things under control in there 

[Slap]

So why do i have 2.4 v on the display?

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

So why do i have 2.4 v on the display?

Disconnect your knock sensor and put a multimeter on your ECU knock input pin and you'll get a voltage too.

Essentially that sensor acts as a pull down resistor.

People in the past have disable then for Z32 ECUs by fitting resistors.

[Leroy Peterson]

Have you tried measuring AC volts instead across the knock sensor, as a comparison? Have you tried with a different knock sensor? Or a new one? Or a different ECU even?
You want help understanding what it's doing, that's fine, but you gotta help more than just saying you have a DC measurement.

For all we know you could be measuring onto the wrong wires. Or the multimeter is a $20 Jaycar special.

[GTSBoy]

9 hours ago, Slap said:

Pfft . Im not a dumb karnt yet you have repeatedly treated me as one. Saying shid like "the thing you didnt know..." omg mate dont you think its pretty obvious that you can set parrameters on the programable ecu.

Yet, you said, out loud to the hearing of all in this forum, that the idle speed is adjusted with the screw on the idle valve.  That was after you had been told multiple times that the ECU was in control of it.

9 hours ago, Slap said:

Still unexplained is what the voltage reading is!

Yup, and it will remain so whilst the voltage is being measured and reported by someone in whom we have no trust in their technical capability.  I can tell you right now that I would not expect to measure a DC voltage on either terminal of the knock sensor.  Perhaps all your buggerising around has broken something in your ECU.  That would be a logical expectation on our behalf.

9 hours ago, Slap said:

I understand filters to an extent i have set up stereos and used the safc as an fcd.

This is news to us.  In your previous post, did you not express no knowledge of how filters work?

9 hours ago, Slap said:

Sound to power to ecu. Even stated by the article as volts but sadly unaccepted by you as volts because the terminology is frequency because thats how its read and not the intended purpose of the signal.

Wat?

9 hours ago, Slap said:

Do you think that .3v can power the knock sensor signal?

No.  As posted above by Ben, THE ECU DOES NOT POWER THE KNOCK SENSOR.  As I posted earlier, the knock sensor is a microphone and GENERATES the voltages that turn up on its terminals by the piezoelectric effect.  You really should read what we post and then go look up that which you do not understand.

9 hours ago, Slap said:

So in turn i see it so far as a current of 2.4v~ manipulated into a freguency via (audio) this manipulation changes the amplitude of the current as fast as the sensor inputs it (the amps of the electrical current?) Can be shown in a complex wave in an audio wave analyzer.

No.  No.  No. No.  There is no way that I can tell you how far arse-backwards you have that scheme.

9 hours ago, Slap said:

The wire needs a current to carry the signal.

No, a signal can be carried with almost no current at all.  If you use an input circuit on your receiver (the ECU in this case) that has massive impedance (let's say some megaohms) then all that happens is that the voltage applied to the input terminals is directly measurable at that point with almost no current flowing.  This is the principle of measuring voltage.

In this case however, I don't know the input impedance of the ECU's knock sensor terminals, so I will make no representation of what it is.  I would, however, expect it to be very high.

9 hours ago, Slap said:

An unpowered mic dosnt work well when listening very carfully. 0.3v has to be amplified or somthing for knock to be distinguished by the ecu.

No.  You are talking the difference between passive and active microphones.  All that active powered microphones have is basically a method of increasing the signal level at the microphone itself.  Almost all microphones are passive and they need to be plugged into an amplifier to turn their tiny signals into sufficiently high level to drive a speaker.  Conventionally that is a chain of a mic pre-amp followed by a power amp, simply because the various different sorts of microphones generate different sized signals compared to line level audio signals and need different pre-amp treatment.

Despite all that.....it is immaterial here.  The ECU is not trying to play the knock noises into the cabin for you to hear.  It is quite capable of listening for knock noises at the microphone signal level.  There may well be a small pre-amp stage in the ECU to make the signal larger, but I wouldn't expect it.  THERE IS NO POWER TO THE KNOCK SENSOR.

9 hours ago, Slap said:

2.4 v is about central of a standard sensor.
50% up
50% down.

No.  No.  No.  As posted by Ben, again, the knock sensor is not a 5V sensor that simply changes its resistance with whatever it is measuring.  It is not.  Therefore your continued pushing of that line that your 2.4V means something shows that you have not understood what you have been told over and over again.

9 hours ago, Slap said:

Why i believe it to be the base line of the frequency as voltage and as you said less noise less signal. (5v sensor at 2.4 v can handle amps for twice as much voltage as the powered audio line is running. Powering and amplifying the small signal into a larger signal to be decoded at the ecu. And allowing for 2.4v at (x) amps enough movement either up or down when in a wave.

Have a looooooooong look at the graphic posted by RICE again.  Note the midpoint of the waveform is at ZERO volts.  Zero.  There should be no DC bias on the knock sensor.  What have you done to your car?

9 hours ago, Slap said:

If the amps of the current are pulse waves will it actualy impact the voltage reading as its a voltage display not an amp metter.

No.  You are just bashing out meaningless terms now.

9 hours ago, Slap said:

Can you reprogram the filters on a nistune?

No.  They are not in code.  They will be in hardware.

9 hours ago, Slap said:

You just told me it cant add timming and on the other hand repeatedly contradicted yourself straight after with the idle control valve.

No, I did not contradict myself.  The ECU DOES NOT ADD TIMING TO THE BASE 15° to get you the mythical 30° that you claim your engine idles at.  That is the point I have made, more than once, about your incorrect claim.  The other things I have said about the ECU using timing to attempt to control idle speed AS A MATTER OF LAST RESORT are all true.  I will not reiterate all that typing.  You are doing my head in as it is.

9 hours ago, Slap said:

Wich i also thought the stepper mottor was only for marm up and some are even wax valve.

No.  No.  No.  Take an early one, like an RB20.  The wax pellet valve is a separate device, lodged under the inlet manifold.  It is the AUXILIARY AIR VALVE and it is responsible for opening up a big air leak to give a cold start high idle.  The idle control valve is on the back end of the plenum and is controlled by the ECU.  Take a later one, like a NEO.  The wax pellet valve is integrated into the IACV and does the same job as it does on the RB20.  Open when cold, closed when warm.  This is why the NEO has a coolant feed to the IACV on the back end  of the plenum.  It feeds cold or warm (or hot) water to the wax pellet to allow it to sense the engine temperature directly.  The stepper motor controlled valve is still under the control of the ECU for normal idle control.

I am pretty sure that Nissan will have abandoned such old fashioned shit by now and not be using wax pellet valves at all.  They will do everything with the IACV, like every other manufacturer does.

9 hours ago, Slap said:

Once warm my car sits very close to 850 rpm where i set it and if i turn the safc up and down at the 1000 rpm it does impact on the car.

We can't comment on what you may have done to your car.

 

9 hours ago, Slap said:

It does not try to drop lower in rpm by itself to get to 650-700rpm.

That's because you have butchered the system.

 

9 hours ago, Slap said:

No i wont use the correct terminology as skidlines are a hobby not a job. But thank you when you do use it respectively.

I believe the word you are looking for in all your usages so far is "respectfully".  Not respectively, which has a completely different meaning.

/thread, please mods.

[Slap]

Well if you werent a bunch of karnts trying to be so rightious that you do nothing but deliberately misinterpreting and manipulating what i say is my jargan is dif and my terms sometimes wrong... then i might understand you better. But most your logic is repeated because you cant answer my question.

Timming well you did contradict yourself.
Even if its adjusting it to save its life.
My butchered 20det running 17psi safc hacked lasted 3 years of full on abuse before it spun a bearing at over 9000 rpm when oil control failed. Wich next you will say it cant hit that rpm on a stock ECU.

Im going to keep it simple for you big headed farks that think your shit dont stink.

1stly. How obvious is it that i could get a nistune second hand cheaper than from you dosepipe?

2ndly why is there voltage of 2.4 on my knock sensor wires at the ecu and lower with better fuel?

3rdly answer the questions and stop trying to confuse me more with your bullshit repeating.

4thly stop taking my experience and saying it couldnt happen as it did does and will continue.

5thly you probably think you know more than you actualy do or it wouldnt have been so poorly explained that the trhead has a bazzillion posts saying the same shid.

6thly just end the thread by answering correctly or dont try to answer it.

7thly i could not be farked trying to make you understand me any more as all your concerned about is me understanding you.

8thly easy question. Same as the 2nd. Why do the wires show voltage?

[Slap]

Have you tried measuring AC volts instead across the knock sensor, as a comparison? Have you tried with a different knock sensor? Or a new one? Or a different ECU even?
You want help understanding what it's doing, that's fine, but you gotta help more than just saying you have a DC measurement.

For all we know you could be measuring onto the wrong wires. Or the multimeter is a $20 Jaycar special.

Hi leeroy.
All ive done is wire the $2 volt display to the wires in the knock pins.
They use a signal and have a positive and negative. Thanks for not being an asshole like some and actualy discussing it.
I have not tested other sensors as they both were the same voltage. Althought i have seen one at 2.3 and one at 2.4.

[Slap]

Sorry for the aggressive posts but im sick of being followed around on the forum and having smoke blown up my arse most posts i do.