water to air intercooler, has anyone done a stagea?

[oxford1327]

I'm pondering on the idea of fitting a water to air intercooler setup, and would like to know if anybody else has done one in a stagea, I already know the Pro's/Cons but I fully expect to get the standard responses of "just do what everyone else has done and put a giant front mount and chop the car to bits it's easier", but I don't wanna do that.

I like the fact already that stageas are not the Norm, and kinda wanna stick with that path and do something different, like I did with the intake piping instead of going the standard route of putting a FFP and throttle body so I could fit the Audi R8 coilpacks in there, I had a 10mm plenum spacer made and modified the stock throttle body and J pipe for clearances etc... plus the fact that i could potentially cut the piping lengths to a bare minimum as well as virtually no boost loss/restriction.

so come on brains trust give me some examples if you have any, or have seen what others have used and what vehicles they came off to adapt to Stagea, have done the inevitable google search on skylines etc with water to air coolers and got pretty much ZIP.

[Ben C34]

The problem is the plumbing layout is so suitable for a front mount so going down the water air option to be different is going to cost more and not solve a packaging problem. While water to air can be a better overall option, it's your money, but I wouldn't do it.

[oxford1327]

32 minutes ago, Ben C34 said:

The problem is the plumbing layout is so suitable for a front mount so going down the water air option to be different is going to cost more and not solve a packaging problem. While water to air can be a better overall option, it's your money, but I wouldn't do it.

When I had the front bar off the car recently there is miles of real estate available in front of the front wheels behind the bar, so my thinking was that I could mount the header tank and pump on the driver's side, the heat exchanger /radiator where a front mount goes, and the cooler body on the passenger side and use the factory piping holes to plumb cooler body, that would just about cut the pipe length by 2/3 or more, it would all still get plenty of passing air, as well as passive cooling  and not have extra chopping of holes in stuff, and because the heat exchanger radiator is 1/3 as thick as average front mount and also smaller surface area, the other cooling elements of the car would benefit overall. 

And if it comes down to cost arguments, a good front mount kit is around the 1k and above mark, pretty much on a par with the water to air setups 

[karter]

Matthew Fairweather has  run a water to air setup - not sure if he still frequents SAU but look for Matt's Build thread on the M35  Stagea Tuners FB page.

[oxford1327]

11 minutes ago, karter said:

Matthew Fairweather has  run a water to air setup - not sure if he still frequents SAU but look for Matt's Build thread on the M35  Stagea Tuners FB page.

Awesome, thanks, I did a search on here and not a cracker came up, will definitely suss it out tomorrow 

[Race__24]

I was running a water to air for a few years. Was excellent with the stock turbo. Throttle response was amazing and fits in without having to cut the reo. When I went to a bigger turbo it struggled. I still have the kit if you are interested.

[oxford1327]

2 hours ago, Race__24 said:

I was running a water to air for a few years. Was excellent with the stock turbo. Throttle response was amazing and fits in without having to cut the reo. When I went to a bigger turbo it struggled. I still have the kit if you are interested.

What supposed hp rating was the unit? And when you say it struggled, in what sense? Airflow or temperature? 

Did it suffer from heat soak being so close to engine etc?

Did the heat exchanger have a Dan on it, and/or an external reservoir.

I'm gonna put mine underneath the airbox in the cavity behind front bar and in front of wheel where the standard one would have been I assume, that way it's away from temp sources but still relatively short pipes 

[Race__24]

What supposed hp rating was the unit? And when you say it struggled, in what sense? Airflow or temperature? 
Did it suffer from heat soak being so close to engine etc?
Did the heat exchanger have a Dan on it, and/or an external reservoir.
I'm gonna put mine underneath the airbox in the cavity behind front bar and in front of wheel where the standard one would have been I assume, that way it's away from temp sources but still relatively short pipes 

The kit was based on this one which is a 600hp kit
http://www.frozenboost.com/liquid-air-intercooler/water-to-air-intercooler-p-1006.html?osCsid=4a82cfdcc8d2c9a5bfe18b516f7c3663

Except I have a Bosch pump and a type 118 heat exchanger. I didn't have a resi. I wasn't running a thermo on it either. Probably with the resi and thermo it would have been much better. The intercooler was always cool to the touch.

I tried to fit mine where you are planning to but there was now way it was going to fit. The intercooler would fit but the piping takes up much more room than you would think.

[oxford1327]

4 hours ago, Race__24 said:

The kit was based on this one which is a 600hp kit
http://www.frozenboost.com/liquid-air-intercooler/water-to-air-intercooler-p-1006.html?osCsid=4a82cfdcc8d2c9a5bfe18b516f7c3663

Except I have a Bosch pump and a type 118 heat exchanger. I didn't have a resi. I wasn't running a thermo on it either. Probably with the resi and thermo it would have been much better. The intercooler was always cool to the touch.

I tried to fit mine where you are planning to but there was now way it was going to fit. The intercooler would fit but the piping takes up much more room than you would think.

OK thanks for the reply, essentially the kit I have coming will be the same core size, but with a heat exchange unit 12"x12.5"x2" thick with it's own filler neck, and if need be was gonna add an external reservoir with one of those 12v passive heat sink off a cheap car fridge on a separate switch for hot weather, whether on the cooler core or the reservoir. 

As for space to mount the core was looking to mount on a 45 degree angle so it gets plenty of surface wicking as well as utilising as much of available space in cavity as possible. 

Oh and can you please explain where you said it was struggling when went to larger turbo? 

How much bigger are we talking, and what kinda killerwasps figures did you find it holding stuff back in whatever manner? 

[oxford1327]

Oh and what ratio coolant to water did you run in system? 

Was it glycol or ethanol based coolant etc.. 

[Race__24]

Oh and what ratio coolant to water did you run in system? 
Was it glycol or ethanol based coolant etc.. 

I just ran standard premix coolant

[oxford1327]

So when you say it struggled, in what sense did you mean please? 

[Race__24]

It's also worth thinking how you want to wire it in. You don't want to drive around with a blown fuse and the pump not running.

[oxford1327]

On 3/9/2019 at 6:37 PM, Race__24 said:

It's also worth thinking how you want to wire it in. You don't want to drive around with a blown fuse and the pump not running.

I'll take it to auto elec down the road from me and get it wired so that if fuse blows on heat exchange fan or pump that it illuminate an led on dash somewhere, and have it wired to ignition so when car is running so is cooler system circuit. 

I'd still like to know how yours struggled when went bigger turbo please? 

[GTSBoy]

You don't need any glycol, etc.  You only need corrosion inhibitors (which glycol is certainly NOT).  You can buy corrosion inhibitors separately.

[oxford1327]

58 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

You don't need any glycol, etc.  You only need corrosion inhibitors (which glycol is certainly NOT).  You can buy corrosion inhibitors separately.

I'll look into that, and check what stuff is best for all alloy systems,

thanks. 

 

[Race__24]

I'll take it to auto elec down the road from me and get it wired so that if fuse blows on heat exchange fan or pump that it illuminate an led on dash somewhere, and have it wired to ignition so when car is running so is cooler system circuit. 
I'd still like to know how yours struggled when went bigger turbo please? 

I think it was mostly heat soak from not running a fan or res. With both of those things in place you'll increase the thermal capacity of the system. Particularly if you can get the res somewhere reasonably cool. I was also running a Hi-flow turbo which probably wasn't to efficient. My tuner recommended going back to a front mount and there was definitely an improvement.

[oxford1327]

OK thanks, I've finished the install and I've placed a bilge ventilation fan inside the front bar directed at the radiator so it has constant airflow but won't be affected by speed like a rotary bladed fan will, I also have a little doogen/gadget called a Peltier Plate that I can install if need be for extra cooling of the water chamber to increase efficiency that will be attached to the cooler body with its own heatsink, get car back from sparky tomorrow so will be able to update progress soonish 

[BoostdR]

I modified an AMG E550 intercooler. It’s better in every way than an air to air unit apart from complexity.

[oxford1327]

On 3/27/2019 at 10:16 PM, Race__24 said:

On 3/13/2019 at 2:44 PM, oxford1327 said:

 

 

After having  bedded everything in for a few weeks, I've noted a fairly substantial gain in boost response, engine runs almost a full notch cooler on the Guage, without any adjustment of the boost controller it showed a gain of 3 to 3.5 psi boost and feels hungry for more, so far without any signs of heat soak etc, intercooler body is cool to the touch after an hour driving on highway then bit of a fang through streets on way home. so car is going in for a road tune to tidy up fuel/air etc and see what it feels like, then if feel the need later on can go for a trek and get it on a 4 wheel dyno as closest one with any Nistune experience is around a 1 1/2 hour drive away.