Ppg syncro gearset

[Taha]

Hi just seeing if any1  can help  I spoke to renu gearbox   and he said  installing a  ppg healical syncro gearset   with  factory input shaft and sandwich plate  will work fine at my power level  550wkw.   Just thought I'd ask for advice  as it is a street car   don't want a dogbox 

[BK]

Very similar to a OS Giken from all reports strength wise as it generally comes down to the synchros lasting. Pretty much one of the two to go if you're going to stay synchro.

All about how much you want to spend. If you can afford it go bigger input and centre plate. If you continue to drag you'll want a dog box in the end. I had dog box from 2009 - 2012 then went to Giken synchro until last year.

I am now back to a dog box again.

[Taha]

Thanks for your help  will a dogbox be unbearable on the street  or can be driven smoothish

[BK]

Dog boxes can definitely be driven smoothly on the street. It does take practice as you have to be thinking about your shifts all the time. I do find you really do have to rev match properly on downshifts to be smooth. No just put the clutch in, let revs drop and select gear like a normal box. I drive mine on the street just fine, a 3F1 Quaife / Trust straight cut 6 speed (I have another one for sale currently). I love the straight cut gear noise over helical too, but this can drive some people nuts. This is in the 32 which is not a daily. The 33 I do still use an OS giken set though I guess so I can have a synchro and a dog box to choose from.

I know also PAR (I know they had a bad rep for a while. Been assured the new stuff is actually really good since about 2014) is getting a good reputation from their current straight dog 1st - 4th and helical synchro 5th. Maybe that's an option for you ? PPG do similar with the helical dog 1st - 4th and helical synchro 5th. Check these options out.

Edit: Try and get a drive of a dog box if you can also.

Edited March 7, 2019 by BK
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[RICE RACING]

What about Albins? This is my box (Mazda) getting made by them. I used to get OS Giken (think Quaife makes their parts?) but the '5 speed kit' from them came with SFA compared to Albins.

 

• My Albins 5 speed kit
• OS Giken 5 speed kit, which is actually 3.5 speed kit LOL, 4th is not a gear, and 5th utilizes OE extension housing pair.

[RICE RACING]

OS is very strong, that pictured 'kit' is run in this car, done multiple hours of full power and good as gold. Other miss designed dog box kits by comparison break/strip gears with 200+bhp less power on EFR7670's LOL.

http://www.riceracing.com.au/rides/SeriesVIII_Charles.htm

They shift fast enough and are maintenance free, dog engagement really is for kunts who don't know how to drive honestly. Learn how to double de clutch (proper rev match) and you will never ever break a syncro.

[BK]

11 hours ago, RICE RACING said:

dog engagement really is for kunts who don't know how to drive

What bullshit. If that was the case everyone in motorsport would be using synchro transmissions. OP drag races. Any time you can do on a synchro box, you can AWAYS beat with a dog box.

Kunts who don't know how to drive break Dog boxes.

[RICE RACING]

12 minutes ago, BK said:

What bullshit. If that was the case everyone in motorsport would be using synchro transmissions. OP drag races. Any time you can do on a synchro box, you can AWAYS beat with a dog box.

Kunts who don't know how to drive break Dog boxes.

You obviously are emotional and cant comprehend what I wrote Roger.

For the street a dog box is just for wankers, they are not required nor needed ? and they never last as long as a syncro set up. The amount of 'time' you loose on a syncro shift does not make up for the total head f**k/maintenance nightmare and total abuse to your car that a dog box is. Let alone looking like a total clown in a car that sounds like you are driving in reverse gear everywhere.

Congrats to you mate.

[RICE RACING]

Any CLOWN can change down on a dog box, only a real driver can do it on a syncro box without breaking it ?

Do you even know why crack testing is done on a dog ? do you know the amount of shock loading that happens ? and why the kunts are thrown in the bin after a certain amount of hours use ?

Garbage set up for the street, only a homo would fit one, good luck racing your car and justifying to yourself that you need it lol....

[RICE RACING]

Anyway without abusing you we can compare real information ?

Below is why I say a syncro is more than fine, there is little to no mechanical stess and they are more than acceptable to keep up with real road engines levels of inertia (to match speeds without undue stresses being applied to gearbox parts).

This is on an up shift, I can give you any detail you want Roger.

260ms is NOT slow at all. And I have heaps of data on a dog trans where you dont just look at the gear position time off the barrel in sequential but rather you look at the time on off accel, and its not the quantum leap some dubious makers and groupies would have you believe ? regardless my point it in the dog box you are forcing the engine to slow down or speed up (on a down shift) is this is the catastrophic BANG! you hear each time it shifts, the dog edges slamming against each other and the amount of energy is what crack them and causes you to throw the kunts in the bin after a set amount of time.

A road car with normal flywheel and inertia involved means I say again that dog engagement is only for wankers ? cause even with electronic flat shift as pictured the engine cant decelerate fast enough to reduce this miss match, syncro helps, dog just molests its way in,to the detriment of durability, let alone common sense which it seems is not so common LOL.

[BK]

Hey whoa up mate. No need to talk to people like shit. Stop calling people homos and wankers. My name is not Roger. OP TAHA is asking about box choices. He drag races.

I pointed out a dog will be better on the strip, which it is.

Yes a synchro is easier to drive on the street, which it is.

No one is getting emotional except you rice, with the need for a triple reply in a row and name calling like a child to defend some point.

TAHA, I was just trying to give you some real world advice from using and owning both types of boxes - in a GTR. Synchro or dog, both have their pros and cons and it's up to you to decide what fits your needs. All the best with it.

 

 

 

[RICE RACING]

1 minute ago, BK said:

Hey whoa up mate. No need to talk to people like shit. Stop calling people homos and wankers. My name is not Roger. OP TAHA is asking about box choices. He drag races.

I pointed out a dog will be better on the strip, which it is.

Yes a synchro is easier to drive on the street, which it is.

No one is getting emotional except you rice, with the need for a triple reply in a row and name calling like a child to defend some point.

TAHA was just trying to give you some real would advice from using and owning both types of boxes. Synchro or dog, both have their pros and cons and it's up to you to decide what fits your needs. All the best with it.

 

 

 

All good ?

I just put up info (if it helps). Road cars 99% of the time are driven on road, if its a racing car different story. Many great not so old racing cars came out with syncro trans ? especially endurance cars. Just for the reason of durability.

You can flat shift syncro trans and compared to a H pattern dog box the differences are minor too ? very minor in lost time.

[RICE RACING]

On 3/7/2019 at 5:34 PM, Taha said:

Hi just seeing if any1  can help  I spoke to renu gearbox   and he said  installing a  ppg healical syncro gearset   with  factory input shaft and sandwich plate  will work fine at my power level  550wkw.   Just thought I'd ask for advice  as it is a street car   don't want a dogbox 

^ Wise choice ?

You don't need a dog box either despite what some will say to you too ? If you are going to have some fun with it (not just straight line bullshit) then invest in some skills development and learn how to down change properly (let clutch out in neutral) and physically match the shaft speeds, reducing stress on the syncro work load. Once you master this (not easy!) especially if you combine braking at limits ? then the syncro box will last you 100 fold what a dog box will.

[RICE RACING]

Just for old mate cause he loves a triple banger post ?

Here is best case scenario, race engine with Hewland transaxle with ~30ms shift time, but real time listed to accel off/on (which is what matters) paddle shift closed loop, the motor decel rate is F1 like so works with this type of box, still a rebuild last year was $10,000 where we had to fix some parts and do a few ratio changes! not cheap!

Then there is the more realistic (drug race set up), H pattern dog box, with street twin turbo V8, this run was low 10 at 150mph, and lots more inertia in boat anchor V8 v's a proper race engine, anyway same comparison, there is NO difference in performance on gear up shift at all. Nothing worth the head f**k of maintaining a dog box, changing oil every event to get rid of metal shrapnel etc etc.

Take from it what  you will ? I tried to keep the scales the same and show some real information.

One of the other aspects that I have spoken to some makers of certain 6 speed sequential transmissions is ratio spreads and the ultra stupidity of close ratio's on good turbo engines, there is MANY cases where a 4 speed with 1:1 in 4th is far superior to a 6 speed that has say a 1:1 fifth or 'ultra stupidity' of a 1:1 sixth!!!, you waste so much time in acceleration losses compounded inside the gear set, let alone inertia from accelerating the masses and wasted gear changes, that you find many cars (GTR road cars included) accelerate much faster with a 5 speed dog box (correct final drive) to only use 4 speeds over 400m. The same is evident when matching a stupid engine set up 'peaky power' to a 6 speed sequential seen it so many times that they are just shit boxes in acceleration no faster than a broader engine power spread mated to a conventional wider spaced transmission ? food for thought. But what would I know LOL.

 

[BK]

low 10 @ 150mph is atrocious ! Should be doing AT LEAST mid 9s. I've done 10.6 @ only 126mph before. Without the dog OS Giken low 11s by comparision. Looking at TAHA he will run much quicker with a dog and that's a fact. Really don't know why all the dog box bashing. Like I said horses for courses, but drag shifting at 8k+ rpm ain't good for synchros and definitely ain't good in a drag environment, and will die first in big hp gtrs. BK out, TAHA once again good luck.

[RICE RACING]

Just now, BK said:

low 10 @ 150mph is atrocious ! Should be doing AT LEAST mid 9s. I've done 10.6 @ only 126mph before. Without the dog OS Giken low 11s by comparision. Looking at TAHA he will run much quicker with a dog and that's a fact. Really don't know why all the dog box bashing. Like I said horses for courses, but drag shifting at 8k+ rpm ain't good for synchros and definitely ain't good in a drag environment, and will die first in big hp gtrs. BK out, TAHA once again good luck.

Can you read Roger?

I put up a graph of changing gear at 9300rpm on Syncro its a non issue....

[BK]

On a GTR it is, it f**ks them quick smart. Anyone who says drag racing a synchro box repeatedly is a good idea and that it will last is an idiot. You have been warned.

Stop calling me roger smart arse, I've seen the "fully sick" videos.

[Taha]

Cool thanks  for info ?

[Taha]

As my car is a a street car  at the moment  I think I'll be going with ppg syncro  gearset  as  my cars is not drag car and i dont plan on  cageing it  got the booted for 140mph before     ppg said   msm grey 32 with 7685 @ 40psi in this vid 

 

  if  my box held up  I would of done a 9.88  on 2nd pass  and once  I run a 9 it will never go back  till I change set up  

 

[RICE RACING]

Great vid, nice box too, perfect.