R34: JRZ installed = chatter noise

[Hella_GTR]

Hello and happy Friday! 

I have a question for you guys.  I'm totally new to Nissan Skyline's but my R34 GTR V-spec is making some chatter noise after I installed JRZ RS Two-Way's.  After they were installed, the rear of the car makes some chassis chatter noise.  To me it sounds like loose top hats, but they're not loose.  It's like a dull rattling sound.  I took the car to two shops here in Japan so far and both have identified the noise coming from the JRZ's.  They think it has to do with the helper springs.  That said, JRZ's are not common here and the two shops I went to have never even heard of JRZ.   So that may be the reason why they blame the JRZ's. 

The car is lowered, but not slammed.  I've attached photos to show the ride height and JRZ's.  I don't know anyone else who has JRZ's on their GTR's here.  Does anyone have experience with JRZ's or suspension with a similar design that has some noise issues?  Maybe the noise is normal, but when I put back on the OEM suspension, no noise exists.  Maybe it has to do with the top hat design and is just something I need to get used to.  The shops I took the car to said the rear suspension bushings are all OK and I had them check the sway bar connections.  So maybe it's just something I need to live with.  It's not LOUD but it's noticeable and only occurs over bumps.  The car drives amazingly with them on though.

Thanks for any help and sharing your experiences.

-Evan

[GTSBoy]

Steel on steel bearing at the top will be noisy. (not intended for street/comfort/NVH).

Edited July 5, 2019 by GTSBoy

[Hella_GTR]

40 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

Steel on steel bearing at the top will be noisy. (not intended for street/comfort/NVH).

Thanks man!  I don't mind the noise as long as it's normal.  I just thought it was a little funky because my JRZ's weren't noisy in my EK Civic and NSX back in the US.  This is my first Skyline so still learning a lot.  Glad to know it's normal.  I went with JRZ's because they feel so damn awesome on the street and track. 

Thanks again

[Hella_GTR]

Ok I talked to JRZ and they asked me to film the noise which I did.  Does this sound normal to you guys?  The rear seats are removed so it's definitely louder but you can hear all the thumping around as I drive around. JRZ thinks it may be the struts or just the noise caused from the pillow mount design and the GTR itself.   Most the noise comes from the left rear which I've read here is common.

If you have any thoughts please let me know.

 

Thanks guys!

 

[GTSBoy]

If that's the strut itself, it's no damn good - it's buggered. If it's the spherical joint at the top, then it's unpleasantly noisy and probably shouldn't be that bad. Either way, JRZ will/should come to the party I think.

[Duncan]

Agreed...noisy strut tops are one thing but that is bumping around/wearing.  

It could be the spring on the shock body, so check for wear marks particularly on the threaded section of the shock. Assuming all 4 shocks look like the pic, it is unlikely to be the spring rattling because the helper springs seem to be long enough to give it a little preload.

But most likely that is a strut top knocking, and while that's not exactly dangerous it will be annoying and wear way quicker than it should.

[Hella_GTR]

22 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

If that's the strut itself, it's no damn good - it's buggered. If it's the spherical joint at the top, then it's unpleasantly noisy and probably shouldn't be that bad. Either way, JRZ will/should come to the party I think.

 

Hi GTSboy, I agree. JRZ said they're going to review this in their office on Monday and let me know the plan.  JRZ's aren't cheap so I'm hoping they can help me out.  There's only one authorized JRZ dealer in Japan and luckily they are only an hour away from me so I hope to work something through them.  I'll keep you guys posted and i greatly appreciate the help.  

 

7 hours ago, Duncan said:

Agreed...noisy strut tops are one thing but that is bumping around/wearing.  

It could be the spring on the shock body, so check for wear marks particularly on the threaded section of the shock. Assuming all 4 shocks look like the pic, it is unlikely to be the spring rattling because the helper springs seem to be long enough to give it a little preload.

But most likely that is a strut top knocking, and while that's not exactly dangerous it will be annoying and wear way quicker than it should.

 

Hi Duncan, I checked the shock body and didn't see any signs of wear, but I'll check again this coming weekend when I take it to another shop and use their lift.  I will say the sound is much less with the rear seat in but man I just want to make sure I'm not damaging anything.  I'd ditch the JRZ's for some japanese brand dampers but JRZ's are just amazing and I spent a lot on them so I hope the situation can be salvaged.  I'll keep driving it for now and try one or two more shops to see if they have an opinion.  I'll let you know what happens with JRZ's review next week.

You guys are awesome for your help.  I've been pretty lost here in Japan, especially with my poor japanese language level.  

Thank you

[ERO54N]

Hello Evan,

That sounds quite alarming, like a knocking.

From what I have observed helper springs sound more like a solid grouped chiming than a knock.

Ride in the second vid looks quite harsh, (maybe exaggerated from one hand video) have you checked the dampening rate of the rear passenger strut?

Really nice car though, hope you and JRZ figure it out.

Edited July 7, 2019 by ERO54N

[Hella_GTR]

On 7/7/2019 at 8:27 PM, ERO54N said:

Hello Evan,

That sounds quite alarming, like a knocking.

From what I have observed helper springs sound more like a solid grouped chiming than a knock.

Ride in the second vid looks quite harsh, (maybe exaggerated from one hand video) have you checked the dampening rate of the rear passenger strut?

Really nice car though, hope you and JRZ figure it out.

Hi Charles, yeah I totally agree that helper spring noise should sound more like a chime sound rather than a dull thumping about.  JRZ has requested I take the car to the JRZ dealer in Yokohama so I'll be doing that Saturday.  They want to see what the shop says before doing anything else.  And in the video I had the rebound on full firmness, per the direction of JRZ.  They thought the suspension may have an air bubble in it and turning the rebound to full firmness resolves that (apparently).  It could also be my poor videography.  The car rides wonderfully when the rebound is not at normal levels for the street.

I hope the situation can be resolved because I'd love to be driving the car as much as I can while I live in this great country.  I'll report back any findings!  I suppose I should have just gone with some Japanese suspension...

Thanks,

Evan

[GTSBoy]

2 hours ago, Hella_GTR said:

I suppose I should have just gone with some Japanese suspension

Maybe, but there are other options. There are some Australian coilover options which are top notch. Jap stuff tends to be pretty harsh.

I know nothing of JRZ in terms of their goodness/reputation, but so long as their dampers are good, then it doesn't matter if that noise is a dud damper or a noisy top ball. There are fixes for both. FWIW, I wouldn't consider a pillowball top on any strut top on a road car. Just not a good choice. There are a few places where it is good to have something with some compliance in it, and that is one of them. Perhaps ask JRZ if they have a rubber top for these things. It's not like you need the extra 0.25mm of stiffness in the rear dampers anyway!

[Hella_GTR]

Yeah I agree with you regaring Japanese suspension.  I've been using JRZ for years now and they're just amazing.  I've never had a damper where you can have aggressive spring rates and still be comfortable on the streets of San Francisco.  Because of that, I wanted to run them on the GTR.  I've used similar top hat designs on my past road cars with no noise.  My friend with a R32 and R33 with JRZ's said his doesn't make this noise either so I think something's up.  If the shop in Yokohama reports back the this noise is normal for the GTR with pillow mounts then I need to think about if the noise is worth it to me.  I just can't see how this noise is normal though.  After this JRZ shop looks, I plan to take it to Midori Seibi in Yokohama who specializes in GTR's to see if it's something other than the JRZ's.  I'll keep ya posted man, thanks so much!

[Hella_GTR]

Hi Guys!  Ok so I took the car to The Check Shop in Yokohama, the only JRZ dealer in Japan.  Bottom line, they couldn't figure it out after 8 hours.  They think it's "normal" noise but I can kinda feel like they are just saying that because they can't figure it out.  So a few hundred dollars later, I'm left with the same clunking around noise as before...  Does anyone have JRZ's on their GTR out there?  I'd just scrap the whole thing and get different dampers but they were $4,000 (US).  The noise sounds like the threaded piston on the damper rattles around in the top hat.  I can't feel it at all in the car or chassis though.  If it's normal, then that's ok.  But my buddies with JRZ's in the US who don't have GTR's (not legal there yet for the R34) say it's not normal.

If you have any thoughts, i'd love to hear.  I'll reach out to the GTR community in the UK as maybe folks there run JRZ's.

Thanks all

[GTSBoy]

No-one in Australia had heard of JRZs until this thread, so I wouldn't be holding your breath.

Do JRZ do a more street friendly top for these things?

[Hella_GTR]

16 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

No-one in Australia had heard of JRZs until this thread, so I wouldn't be holding your breath.

Do JRZ do a more street friendly top for these things?

Bummer, I kinda figured that was the case.  They're pretty well known in the US market, but mostly on higher end german cars.  But I even had them on my 2000 Honda Civic.  They're the best I've ever felt before but after this mess, I may swap them out for some Japanese or Australian dampers.  Sucks to lose $4k though...

The JRZ RS Two-ways are designed to be ran on the street and track.  All JRZ models I've seen use the same type of pillow mount top hats, but I'm going to reach out to them again to see if they can do something.  I hope they can come to the table and help out a bit.  I've spent $400 diagnosing the problem already.

I appreciate your help man.  Maybe I'll get a job in Australia someday and bring my car.  

[Komdotkom]

I've got a mate with a JRZ package on his IPRA car, and another mate has them in his 996 Turbo, they don't and shouldn't make this noise. I would 100% be making a warranty claim on these because that's not a 'normal' noise for a set of $1000 BC's let alone a high end manufacturer like JRZ. 

To me it doesn't sound like an internal damper noise, I'd be looking at all of the mounting points and investigating areas for free play and movement to occur.

Another good street/track option that's got decent support in Japan is the lower spec Ohlins Road&Track.

https://www.ohlins.eu/en/products/automotive/nissan-skyline-gt-r-1993--29/

Or just get a set of MCA's, I've got the gold series on my car (3 way) and they fantastic. There's no local support for them but you can just ship them back to Murray in Australia and he'll do whatever you want and then ship them back to you.

[Hella_GTR]

5 hours ago, Komdotkom said:

I've got a mate with a JRZ package on his IPRA car, and another mate has them in his 996 Turbo, they don't and shouldn't make this noise. I would 100% be making a warranty claim on these because that's not a 'normal' noise for a set of $1000 BC's let alone a high end manufacturer like JRZ. 

To me it doesn't sound like an internal damper noise, I'd be looking at all of the mounting points and investigating areas for free play and movement to occur.

Another good street/track option that's got decent support in Japan is the lower spec Ohlins Road&Track.

https://www.ohlins.eu/en/products/automotive/nissan-skyline-gt-r-1993--29/

Or just get a set of MCA's, I've got the gold series on my car (3 way) and they fantastic. There's no local support for them but you can just ship them back to Murray in Australia and he'll do whatever you want and then ship them back to you.

Dude yeah JRZ's are normally top notch and i've never had this noise in the few set's I've had before.  I purposely shipped them here to Japan because I really like how they feel.  That said, it's been quite disappointing in the money and time I've spent trying to fix them.  I complained to JRZ but they haven't come back to me with a solution.  The shop they recommended I go to could not figure it out either after I spent 8 hours there.  It's pretty rediculous.

I did contact Midori Seibi in Yokohama.  They said that they think they know what the problem is and can fix my car.  They sell Aragosta suspension, and apparently Aragosta spawned off of JRZ.  They said they are aware of JRZ's making noise on GTR's so Aragosta makes their own top hats to solve this.  I'm going there next Friday so i'll report back.  I told this all to JRZ.  I hope JRZ comes to the table here.  I don't know what else I can do but try to fight for a refund, worst case.  Ideally they'd help me, or pay for, the solution.  I'm just venting here now sorry.

Worst worst case is I buy some Ohlins or MCA's or Nitrons while I fight JRZ for a refund.  I hope it doesn't go down that road though.  You all have been super helpful though and reaffirming me that my JRZ's are not proper.

Thanks man!

[GastyMask]

On 7/18/2019 at 12:47 PM, Hella_GTR said:

Dude yeah JRZ's are normally top notch and i've never had this noise in the few set's I've had before.  I purposely shipped them here to Japan because I really like how they feel.  That said, it's been quite disappointing in the money and time I've spent trying to fix them.  I complained to JRZ but they haven't come back to me with a solution.  The shop they recommended I go to could not figure it out either after I spent 8 hours there.  It's pretty rediculous.

I did contact Midori Seibi in Yokohama.  They said that they think they know what the problem is and can fix my car.  They sell Aragosta suspension, and apparently Aragosta spawned off of JRZ.  They said they are aware of JRZ's making noise on GTR's so Aragosta makes their own top hats to solve this.  I'm going there next Friday so i'll report back.  I told this all to JRZ.  I hope JRZ comes to the table here.  I don't know what else I can do but try to fight for a refund, worst case.  Ideally they'd help me, or pay for, the solution.  I'm just venting here now sorry.

Worst worst case is I buy some Ohlins or MCA's or Nitrons while I fight JRZ for a refund.  I hope it doesn't go down that road though.  You all have been super helpful though and reaffirming me that my JRZ's are not proper.

Thanks man!

Did Aragosta fix your problem?

[Hella_GTR]

On 9/21/2019 at 1:55 AM, GastyMask said:

Did Aragosta fix your problem?

Long story but i neded up selling the r34 as it was with the chatter noise.  I just bought a r33 and really want JRZ but don't want to deal with the noise issue so I'm going either Ohlins or Aragosta.  If you have JRZ's with noise, JRZ will fabricate some rubber mounts if you send them your original ones.