Considering this R32 with rear quarter panels replaced...stay away or ok?

[Hella_GTR]

Hi again folks! I appreciated all your kind help and support on my previous endeavor to find an r33 but with the price skyrocketing on 1995 r33's in Japan, I've been considering a r32's.

 

I searched the country here in auctions and goo-net dealers and found this non-accident r32 with 161,000km.

 

Yesterday I saw the car and found it looked super clean but and then the dealer disclosed that the rear quarter panel skins had been replaced. The works looks clean to me and I can only tell weld line in the trunk (photo attached). Because they have been replaced, there is no rust below.

 

Is buying a car like this a problem or is it best to stay away from panel replaced cars? My thoughts are the car is old and it's probably inevitable that they will need some rust repair in the future.

 

But I also want to keep this car forever and take it with me back to California when I ultimately have to move back.

 

Best R is the dealer. They're quite well known here in the R community and have a good reputation for selling quality cars and maintenance.

 

They will sell me the car for 345万円 ($32k) out the door with tax included.

 

For reference, a no-accident no rust car with Lower miles is in the 500-700万円 (~$50-65k USD) range.

 

Average price and mileage normal non-accident r32 are $30-45k. This is just what I see and hear here.

 

This car is a r32 standard with the nismo lmgt4 wheels, ohilns, brembo brakes, Fujitsubo exhaust, and Robson leather upgrade (kinda random but that's a thing here). It does have high mileage but has solid maintenance and the Best R says it's good to go (if that means anything).

 

Car: https://www.goo-net.com/usedcar/spread/iphone/13/700055104730190702001.html

 

http://www.best-r.com/create/gallery.php?&id=593

 

I know the original full normal cars are worth the most but even if I bought an original full normal one I would do suspension, wheels, brakes, and exhaust so this one is already done the way I like it.

 

Thanks for any help!

[GTSBoy]

Same as every other such question.

Get it inspected thoroughly. If it comes through that without any red flags, just buy it. None of them are going to be perfect. They're nearly 30 years old now.

And whatever red flags come up, just pay accordingly.

[Hella_GTR]

Fair enough. I'll research some PPI places. I reached out to iron Chef and got no response.

Thanks man. I'm more familiar with the r34 so I appreciate the help.

[joshuaho96]

If you're still interested in the R33 this might be worth checking out: http://jdm-expo.com/vehicle-inventory/659-skyline-gtr-sale.html

[Hella_GTR]

1 hour ago, joshuaho96 said:

If you're still interested in the R33 this might be worth checking out: http://jdm-expo.com/vehicle-inventory/659-skyline-gtr-sale.html

 

Dude nice find.  I've been scouring the web and haven't found any.  I just sent them an email.  I prefer a '95 R33 but super hard to find here or they want crazy money.  Hopefully they'll get back to me.  Not sure if it's a non-repair history car or not but I'll ask them.

I've also been searching for PPI folks with no luck.  I've emailed about 5 places so far, including some local GTR shops.  I don' think PPI is a thing here but they have pre-shipment inspections but that's after purchase.  Thanks dude I'll let you know what the outcome is.  I still like the '94 R32 from Best-R too.  One of these should work out. 

Thanks!

[joshuaho96]

Use the VIN listed from the site and use CarVX to get your own info. They will pull auction sheets + photos and you get a much better idea of the life the car lived.

Also, for some reason the blue VIN plate is removed. I wonder why. Driver side door is not matching color of the fenders either. Passenger side near the bottom of the door card you can see the frame exposed for some reason, not sure if that's normal, the latch is also missing the surround piece on the door card. Pinch welds are not crushed super badly near the jacking points but visible rust.

If your heart is not set on the R33, Toprank has R32s already landed in CA and they can do CA compliance as well: https://www.importavehicle.com/vehicles/311/1992-nissan-skyline-gt-r

Edited August 13, 2019 by joshuaho96

[Hella_GTR]

Use the VIN listed from the site and use CarVX to get your own info. They will pull auction sheets + photos and you get a much better idea of the life the car lived.
Also, for some reason the blue VIN plate is removed. I wonder why. Driver side door is not matching color of the fenders either. Passenger side near the bottom of the door card you can see the frame exposed for some reason, not sure if that's normal, the latch is also missing the surround piece on the door card. Pinch welds are not crushed super badly near the jacking points but visible rust.
If your heart is not set on the R33, Toprank has R32s already landed in CA and they can do CA compliance as well: https://www.importavehicle.com/vehicles/311/1992-nissan-skyline-gt-r

Hi Josh,

I'm 99% sure you're talking about the r33 from jdm-expo (correct me if I'm wrong). I actually watched the video of the car and it looks like it needs more work than I want to put in on it. With clean grade 4 r33 v-specs going for about $43k at the auctions, their price maybe makes sense as it would take some work to clean it up. Plus jdm expo never got back to me.

I'm back to the r32 at Best R. I think it's still the best value out there for one with no accident history and it already has the wheels, suspension and brakes I like so that saves me about $5k or so. I just really don't know about the replaced quarter panels. I'm not an expert on body work but it looks like it was done well. I can't find a PPI company here either. Prestige auto got back to me for PPI but they said they don't really do it and they need to tow the car to a shop and made it sound very unreasonable and suggested I buy a car through them via the auctions (everyone is trying to make a sale...).

About top rank, yeah they have cars in CA already but I've seen some of their cars and mmmm I'm not that impressed. I've been talking with them for a while now, at least their crew in Japan. I keep getting pushed into buying their r33 available with unknown miles and accident history. And they've never suggested any cars to me from the auction. The guys in long Beach though have been super helpful for me with my questions about California compliance and even put me in touch with Sean Morris, the California compliance guru. Their information is why I sold my r34 and am stuck with a 1995 and older.

I'll still be in Japan for another year or two so my plan was to find a solid r32 or series 1 r33 here, get it well sorted out here since I have the shops and parts more available here, and enjoy the car here with some good memories, then take it back with me. True I can buy one in CA now but am stuck with what they have in stock or use their services for the auctions again. Note, their prices are for non-California states. Add $10k for California compliance.

Thanks again for all the help! Wish I can find some local help here. I need to study more Japanese...

[joshuaho96]

For R33s at least there's nothing out there I think that really meets what you're looking for so the answer is to just wait and see if you want one of those. Auctions are closed right now but they'll start up again soon, there are a number of brokers like garage defend that inspect auction cars. Toprank is another option, I think they're probably hoping to get rid of that QM1 R33 but with known accident damage that price is kind of hard to justify. I think if you press harder they will be willing to look at auction cars as well.

[Hella_GTR]

Yeah I've been using top rank for about a year now at the auctions with not much success. They said they only inspect some cars, not all. Dukes in Hiroshima also checks auctions for me and they showed me a lot more than top rank. I think top rank has so many clients they pick and choose who they want to show what car to. That's just my thoughts from working with them.

Garage defend has those two series 1 r33's now but one has some strut repairs that we previously discussed and the other one looks so so (per my previous post).

And you're right, everything is shut down for obon (except for where I work which only gets US holidays). These cars move so fast here it's crazy though. The last white clean grade 4 set the bar for the auctions so they'll be going for $40k+. My last night cars were from the auctions, both grade 4, and the inspector didn't disclose the rust so I haven't had a good experience there. It's tough here man lol. I wish they did private to private sales here like we do in the US but that's just not a thing.

Shops like best R, pro stock, and craft sports are all good reputable shops that I've been looking at. Midori too but they're busy as hell. I'm going to go back and see the best R 32 this weekend when they open back up. But thanks man something will work out and thanks for letting me vent.

[Hella_GTR]

There's also this one that I plan to go see: https://www.goo-net.com/usedcar/spread/goo/13/700050502330190611001.html

My GTR guru in our office (old school Japanese worker who has been in the GTR scene for decades) said he doesn't recommend buying a GTR from a non-GTR specialty shop but it may be work checking out.  They want 3,600,000 yen excluding tax (8% here...goes up to 10% in September). 

[alex182]

I apologies if i'm going off-topic - but what is the market like for R33s over there at the moment? 

I'm assuming a lot of the "crazy money" is coming from the US' rolling year import laws. How much have 33s gone up recently?

[joshuaho96]

3 minutes ago, Hella_GTR said:

There's also this one that I plan to go see: https://www.goo-net.com/usedcar/spread/goo/13/700050502330190611001.html

My GTR guru in our office (old school Japanese worker who has been in the GTR scene for decades) said he doesn't recommend buying a GTR from a non-GTR specialty shop but it may be work checking out.  They want 3,600,000 yen excluding tax (8% here...goes up to 10% in September). 

I think you linked this one before. Just factor in the cost of repairing the pinch weld or maybe just clean up the rust, treat with primer and pretend it never happened. It's not really that the pinch weld itself matters outside of the factory scissor jack, just that bending it causes the corrosion to start there. Generally speaking you need to engage the flats next to the pinch weld with jack stands/etc, just dropping the car on jack stands without an adapter is going to end poorly.

I think if you really want a flawless car you're just going to have to bide your time and be prepared to drop quite a bit of money on it.

I also found this in Australia, has anyone checked this one out? Could be a good candidate: https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/fawkner/cars-vans-utes/1995-nissan-skyline-s1-r33-gtr-lp2/1215952275

[Hella_GTR]

The skyline market here is pretty crazy in general now.

R34's haven't gone up as exponentially as the R33's.  You can still get a grade 4 R34 for $60-70k USD.

R33's, the 1995 is the main one that shot up.  This is due for two reasons, 1) they become federally legal in the US, and 2) the series 1 is the only R33 that will ever be legal in California (at least until someone develops a OBD2 piggy pack system for the skylines). 

An example of how crazy it is, me and the shop I worked with to source my last two cars from the auction bid on a 1995 White V-spec (photo attached).  We predicted based on previous sales that it would go for about 3,600,000 yen.  It ended up selling for 4,500,000 yen ~($42k).  That's an indicator of the market trend.  The silver GTR i sent a link to in my previous reply is about $35k, non-vspec and high mileage.  So expect clean, especially white, r33's to be close to $40k.  If you don't care about repair history and high mileage you can find them cheaper.  I'm not an expert but this is the current talk here.

Regarding r32's this is pretty crazy too.  low mileage non-repair history R32's are $45-60k.  Middle range non-repair cars are $30-45k.  High mileage repair history cars are $25-30k.  I got these numbers from current experience, looking at dealers, auctions, and a japanese friend found a great website in a japanese only that shows current market values that I can't find on my US based phone...probably because i can't search in kanji. 

Again, not an expert, but this is my experience.

[Hella_GTR]

7 minutes ago, joshuaho96 said:

I think you linked this one before. Just factor in the cost of repairing the pinch weld or maybe just clean up the rust, treat with primer and pretend it never happened. It's not really that the pinch weld itself matters outside of the factory scissor jack, just that bending it causes the corrosion to start there. Generally speaking you need to engage the flats next to the pinch weld with jack stands/etc, just dropping the car on jack stands without an adapter is going to end poorly.

I think if you really want a flawless car you're just going to have to bide your time and be prepared to drop quite a bit of money on it.

I also found this in Australia, has anyone checked this one out? Could be a good candidate: https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/fawkner/cars-vans-utes/1995-nissan-skyline-s1-r33-gtr-lp2/1215952275

You got it, I did show it before.  I think it's the only R33 under $40k and thanks for the help on the repairs.  That's something I will keep in mind. But you said it best, if I want a clean series 1 r33, i'm going to have to drop a lot of money on it.  It sort of takes the fun out of the car.  It's not so much a car anymore, it's an investment that you become scared to drive around in because you don't want to damage it.  We can blame the Americans for this and all their fb and google money swooping these up!  haha.  I will still need to pay about $10k for CA compliance work as well.  Crazy.  Hence why i'm leaning towards the best R R32 for $32k. Supras have sort of been forgotten and they can now be had for $40k at the auctions for a grade 3.5.  Not too bad.

$56k AUD seems legit for that R33.  That color though...

[alex182]

22 minutes ago, Hella_GTR said:

The skyline market here is pretty crazy in general now.

R34's haven't gone up as exponentially as the R33's.  You can still get a grade 4 R34 for $60-70k USD.

R33's, the 1995 is the main one that shot up.  This is due for two reasons, 1) they become federally legal in the US, and 2) the series 1 is the only R33 that will ever be legal in California (at least until someone develops a OBD2 piggy pack system for the skylines). 

An example of how crazy it is, me and the shop I worked with to source my last two cars from the auction bid on a 1995 White V-spec (photo attached).  We predicted based on previous sales that it would go for about 3,600,000 yen.  It ended up selling for 4,500,000 yen ~($42k).  That's an indicator of the market trend.  The silver GTR i sent a link to in my previous reply is about $35k, non-vspec and high mileage.  So expect clean, especially white, r33's to be close to $40k.  If you don't care about repair history and high mileage you can find them cheaper.  I'm not an expert but this is the current talk here.

Regarding r32's this is pretty crazy too.  low mileage non-repair history R32's are $45-60k.  Middle range non-repair cars are $30-45k.  High mileage repair history cars are $25-30k.  I got these numbers from current experience, looking at dealers, auctions, and a japanese friend found a great website in a japanese only that shows current market values that I can't find on my US based phone...probably because i can't search in kanji. 

Again, not an expert, but this is my experience.

Yeah, I had watched the R32s trend skywards ever since the US got them around 2013-14. Didn't know that the Series 1 33s would tbe he only Californian-legal cars. 

Man I miss the days when 32 GTRs were 15K, 33s about the same - and an R34 you could pick up for $30-40K hahaha

 

Thanks for the info man, very interesting to hear what's happening on the ground over there! Cheers

[Hella_GTR]

Yeah I'm really kicking myself in the ass for not knowing that the R34 I bought when the market was high would never be legal in CA due to CA requiring OBD2 emissions equipment.  Now I'm looking for a CA legal capable car (1995 and older) and the market is already high.  It's like buying stocks when the market is high... Timing is everything I guess.  The exporters here just don't know about the CA compliance issues so never informed me.  I should have done a better job and reached out to CA importers myself I guess.  Problem is there's only one shop and one man who knows about the process for Skylines, Sean Morris at TopRank long beach (former Motorex employee).

[Hella_GTR]

This one just popped up.  Needs a lot of love and high mileage (193,000km's) but pretty cheap in today's market and no accidents

https://www.goo-net.com/usedcar/spread/goo/13/700040351830190813001.html

[joshuaho96]

55 minutes ago, Hella_GTR said:

This one just popped up.  Needs a lot of love and high mileage (193,000km's) but pretty cheap in today's market and no accidents

https://www.goo-net.com/usedcar/spread/goo/13/700040351830190813001.html

Why the AC controls are in the center armrest is a real mystery...

I honestly would not be afraid of 200,000 km+ cars, the one I ended up buying was at 280,000 km on the odometer, verified mileage as well. But the condition was decent and a good starting point for what I have planned.

https://www.goo-net.com/usedcar/spread/goo/13/700056070630190222001.html

Have you looked at this one? Seems mostly stock. Even if there is a bit of rust starting on the strut towers, as long as it isn't visible from the bottom in the wheel well or on top in the engine bay you can save them by pulling the engine, cutting open the strut towers along the welds, cleaning it off, coating everything, and rewelding. No new metal is needed. But if you let it get too far the strut tower strength is compromised. It's going to happen to pretty much every R33, just a question of when.

I checked GTNet and they had better photos on their site, the strut towers are 100% rusting. If you want, one approach is to get that car and drive it immediately to a place like Garage Yoshida to start the restoration process.

https://www.goo-net.com/usedcar/spread/goo/19/700110075030170328002.html

This one is basically flawless.

https://www.goo-net.com/usedcar/spread/goo/18/700130031930190716001.html

This one seems like it might be ok? Mostly stock, sounds like they have service records. The center console surround piece has clearly been shoddily repainted, the texture is totally off as is color. I'm guessing it was peeling/melting like half of these cars I see.

Edited August 14, 2019 by joshuaho96

[Hella_GTR]

1 hour ago, joshuaho96 said:

Why the AC controls are in the center armrest is a real mystery...

I honestly would not be afraid of 200,000 km+ cars, the one I ended up buying was at 280,000 km on the odometer, verified mileage as well. But the condition was decent and a good starting point for what I have planned.

https://www.goo-net.com/usedcar/spread/goo/13/700056070630190222001.html

Have you looked at this one? Seems mostly stock. Even if there is a bit of rust starting on the strut towers, as long as it isn't visible from the bottom in the wheel well or on top in the engine bay you can save them by pulling the engine, cutting open the strut towers along the welds, cleaning it off, coating everything, and rewelding. No new metal is needed. But if you let it get too far the strut tower strength is compromised. It's going to happen to pretty much every R33, just a question of when.

I checked GTNet and they had better photos on their site, the strut towers are 100% rusting. If you want, one approach is to get that car and drive it immediately to a place like Garage Yoshida to start the restoration process.

https://www.goo-net.com/usedcar/spread/goo/19/700110075030170328002.html

This one is basically flawless.

https://www.goo-net.com/usedcar/spread/goo/18/700130031930190716001.html

This one seems like it might be ok? Mostly stock, sounds like they have service records. The center console surround piece has clearly been shoddily repainted, the texture is totally off as is color. I'm guessing it was peeling/melting like half of these cars I see.

Yeah that flawless one is nice but 7,000,000 yen + tax is wow ALOT.  That's R34 money.  The red one is just as you said, OK.  It's in Ehime which is super far unfortunately, even with the high-speed shinkansen trains.  Acutally google can't find a way there via train.

The GTNet ones...I've been told to stay away from GTNet because of their quality.  I've personally never seen one from GTNet though so perhaps shouldn't let other sway me.  I would rather find one with no rust to be honest. 

I still think this one is probably the best of the r33's at a reasonable price for 3,600,000 yen + tax.  It's also local in Kanagawa Prefecture (like 1.5hrs away from me via train).   https://www.goo-net.com/usedcar/spread/goo/13/700050502330190611001.html

There's also this one still from Garage Defend but when discussed in the previous post I made, there was some negative things found on it.  It is a V-spec though.   https://garage-defend.com/cars/inventory/nissan/335-nissan-skyline-bcnr33-gt-r-v-spec-for-sale-3439

Actually looking more at the Garage Defend car...the paint spray over the blue VIN plate is scary.  That's the thing with places like Garage Defend and Top Rank, they make these cars shiny to sell and most american's don't know any better so they buy them anyway. 

Tough market!  Sounds like nobody likes the Best R R32 though! https://www.goo-net.com/usedcar/spread/goo/13/700055104730190702001.html

Edited August 14, 2019 by Hella_GTR

[joshuaho96]

If you want an R32 that might be ok, there are a ton more options out there for R32s if you want one.

If you want an R33 that Garage Defend one might be ok if you revert the critical parts back to stock. Do a detailed inspection though. I'm still a little skeptical. The VIN plate looks like someone blasted it badly with something, that's pretty questionable. Get a proper auction sheet and vehicle history to make sure it hasn't been in an accident, check the car out properly, etc...