PAR gearset fo street gtr's

[BK]

Yeah that's it, the whole gearset assembly is basically assembled on the centre plate, so now is the time to fit one. I have an OS giken gearset in my 33 and am always a bit annoyed I didn't do a billet centre plate on that box ?‍♂️

[Mbest12]

On 9/25/2019 at 9:37 AM, BK said:

 You can get either Nissan 24 tooth 25.4mm or GM / Holinger 26 tooth 28.5mm input shaft splines, you specify when ordering. I upgraded to the 26 tooth, It's much beefier and really should be used instead of the Nissan spline.

How critical is the need to replace the Nissan shaft with a GM/Holinger?  It appears that I cannot swap the spline on my Nismo Copper mix clutch kit and I'd rather not have to purchase another kit. I don't intend on surpassing 600hp and PAR says that if I'm not chasing 1000hp I should be ok. 

[BK]

600hp at wheels or estimated engine 600hp ? Big difference. It's up to you really. I don't rate Nismo clutches at all for other than street driving, so for a decent setup that might have any other use than street that would be the first thing I'd get rid of as there is much better clutches out there.

Do you need, or just want another gearbox ?

[Mbest12]

1 hour ago, BK said:

600hp at wheels or estimated engine 600hp ? Big difference. It's up to you really. I don't rate Nismo clutches at all for other than street driving, so for a decent setup that might have any other use than street that would be the first thing I'd get rid of as there is much better clutches out there.

Do you need, or just want another gearbox ?

600ish hp to the wheels is desired, but I just used the figure to give everyone a general idea of how the car will be modified. My first gear synchro is starting to go bad and  I wanted to take advantage of the future transmission labour. At this moment the upgrade is a want, but the car will eventually be used for primarily circuit work which is why I think the PAR gearbox with 1st-4th syncromesh engagement is an excellent compromise. Especially with my current clutch and power level. But I also understand your reasoning and may opt for at least a twin plate from a reputable brand or what you recommended earlier in the thread. 

[BK]

Primarily circuit work and 600hp at wheels, I'd be going with the straight cut dog engagement box with big input and billet centre plate. First gear synchro problems is generally an uncommon thing, and is usually caused by clutches not disengaging properly, causing synchro wear.

Definitely get a better clutch when you do your box if your Nismo isn't even a twin. Best bang for buck twin plate at the moment seem to be the current Xclutch range. Organic, ceramic, or even their carbons are very competitively priced at around $1500 -$2200 depending on spec.

I bang on about the ATS carbon triples being one of the best clutches I've ever seen and used and will always recommend them, but at over $5000 now their not exactly a practical solution for most people.

[Mbest12]

1 hour ago, BK said:

Primarily circuit work and 600hp at wheels, I'd be going with the straight cut dog engagement box with big input and billet centre plate. First gear synchro problems is generally an uncommon thing, and is usually caused by clutches not disengaging properly, causing synchro wear.

Definitely get a better clutch when you do your box if your Nismo isn't even a twin. Best bang for buck twin plate at the moment seem to be the current Xclutch range. Organic, ceramic, or even their carbons are very competitively priced at around $1500 -$2200 depending on spec.

I bang on about the ATS carbon triples being one of the best clutches I've ever seen and used and will always recommend them, but at over $5000 now their not exactly a practical solution for most people.

I'll admit that I inherited the synchro issue with the purchase of the vehicle and just never got around to correcting the issue until recently. I'd like to keep the synchro engagement while it's a daily driver to help save money (and now put the money towards a new clutch ?). And since I'm upgrading the clutch I'll also upgrade the shaft. Where did No doubt that a billet center plate will be installed as well. I'll make the jump to the dog engagement when it's time for circuit work. 

Thanks for your feedback! 

[Predator1]

19 hours ago, BK said:

Primarily circuit work and 600hp at wheels, I'd be going with the straight cut dog engagement box with big input and billet centre plate. First gear synchro problems is generally an uncommon thing, and is usually caused by clutches not disengaging properly, causing synchro wear.

Definitely get a better clutch when you do your box if your Nismo isn't even a twin. Best bang for buck twin plate at the moment seem to be the current Xclutch range. Organic, ceramic, or even their carbons are very competitively priced at around $1500 -$2200 depending on spec.

I bang on about the ATS carbon triples being one of the best clutches I've ever seen and used and will always recommend them, but at over $5000 now their not exactly a practical solution for most people.

I'm not so sure, I know a few people that run the Nismo twin plate(comp and non-comp) at the track and they have had no issues at all. All of them are north of 700awhp, with 1 seeing around 900 on a 2.8. That being said, I wouldnt use the Nismo on a 30 or a 32 primarily due to the extra torque - Be better of with a triple. 

[BK]

Horses for courses really, as opinions and results are always going to vary. As mentioned there are far better options than the Nismo though. Using a clutch from a manufacturer that primarily only make clutches is generally a better bet.

[Mbest12]

7 hours ago, BK said:

Horses for courses really, as opinions and results are always going to vary. As mentioned there are far better options than the Nismo though. Using a clutch from a manufacturer that primarily only make clutches is generally a better bet.

Haysam is standing firm with his opinion that the Nissan input shaft will suffice for my application and goals. However, I'd like to future proof my vehicle whenever I can so I'll still opt for a new clutch and the larger shaft. Maybe even a carbon drive shaft now that I've fallen pretty deep into the rabbit hole. Thanks guys! 

[BK]

It probably is. Even the PAR standard Nissan 25.4mm / 24 tooth spline size input shaft will be an upgrade over the standard original gearbox input shaft with the same spline measurements, because it is thicker on the non splined section. It's also made out of superior material to standard. It's like how OS giken have an "uprated" input shaft that is still the Nissan 24 tooth spline available, it's bigger on the rest of the shaft. The stock GTR/GTSt box input is very small - lucky to be 20mm on the non splined section. I'll measure a stock one and report back next time I have one in my hands.

[Butters]

On 8/16/2020 at 1:49 PM, BK said:

I bang on about the ATS carbon triples being one of the best clutches I've ever seen and used and will always recommend them, but at over $5000 now their not exactly a practical solution for most people.

How is the pedal pressure on the foot compared to stock and say nismo twin ?  

Also do they rattle like tin cans ?

[BK]

50 minutes ago, Butters said:

How is the pedal pressure on the foot compared to stock and say nismo twin ?  

Also do they rattle like tin cans ?

Pressure is heavier with the 1350kg pressure plate than any Nismo or stock clutch of course, but lighter than say an OS Giken R3C which has a lighter pressure plate. There is an 1100kg pressure plate version which would help, but I think they are fine the way the are.

Rattle ? Of course it rattles when pedal depressed and clutch disengaged - it's a solid triple plate.

[NobodySpecial]

Did you actually receive it yet?  Because SOP there is to be friendly and talking it up at the beginning (as stated early in this thread) pretty much telling you everything you want to hear including a 8 - 12 week delivery, but then 12 or 13 months later after  making payment they no longer have much to say or be friendly about.  Not that it matters, because at some point you wise up and realize you’re not alone in being told the same old thing again, and again.  

Seems like a nice enough guy and you so want to believe and be understanding of it all, but then have to accept it’s not a coincidence that the same situations have been going on for years with multiple customers.  If you’re local or a citizen there at least you can go see them and press forward with a face-face experience.  It’s the international customers being required to pay 100% in advance who suffer the most 

So none of the people here are me:

https://performanceforums.com/forums/forum/technical/general-aa/208287-par-gearsets

I purchased a full gearset in Dec 2017 and it finally showed up in Jan 2019.  It’s a full gearset though and was ordered far enough in advance.  It didn’t really cause me any problem other than wondering if I was out the money after so much time.  So despite getting a bit twisted up towards the end of that ordeal, I was instead a bit more understanding after finally receiving it.

However, having purchased a used but broken PAR gearset and the purchase being based on the manufacturer living up to their infamous 8 - 12 weeks delivery quote for an input shaft with one gear that were ordered in early Jan. 2019, I’m still tripping over the broken gearbox sitting in my shop 13 months later. I was figuring on 6 or 7 months maybe which would have been fine.  Which around that time (July 2020) I was told it was mostly done and would be shipping soon.  

However, can you imagine a transmission potentially being down 13+ months later, the parts still unaccounted for, your full payment too, and another promised deadline from 6 weeks ago gone by again without a word being said, and then you can’t even get the courtesy of a reply inquiry about it?  Because i’m here to tell you, you better consider it.

On top of that I bought another barely used 3rd Par gearset from a private seller shortly after ordering those parts, not fully understanding what I was getting myself into.  So a month or two after being told the parts order was almost completed, I was then told the spline count for the gear was uncertain.  I inquired what needed to be done on my end to make sure we get it right and in repeated inquiries nothing more was ever said back to me about it.  Then in the last reply I was told this was an unhealthy situation for both of us and the parts would be completed by the end of Dec.  Well I may have been direct and to the point, but have never cursed the man or intentionally acted disrespectful.  I even told him it’d be even more unhealthy for both if us if the parts show up and don’t fit, making the same inquiry again, but it’s been crickets chirping ever since. 

It wasn’t unhealthy at all whenever I discussed possibly ordering another full gearset or custom flywheel.  I received an international call on Saturday to talk up the purchase buddy-buddy like then, but that’s par for the course.   I was at least woken up enough the 3rd time around to consider it might be wiser to complete this transaction first.  Because If doing business with PAR is an unhealthy situation, I can assure it’s not the customer who paid in full and waited patiently well past the same old 8 - 12 weeks falsehood who’s making it unhealthy. So being in manufacturing myself I get the issues and even now the covid realities, but the delays, multiple deadlines not met, excuses, 1+ year deliveries, and so on have been going on for years  

I’m not hear to cuss or carry on or put any person or company down, it’s just to share my experiences and having looked around at the experiences of others who dealt direct.  If I had been warned to buy two or three gearsets to avoid waiting over a year later to receive replacement parts then at least people can be prepared for that reality.  It might be different with a shop that specializes in supplying particular gearsets from them and maybe can grab parts off the shelf or possibly has a priority relationship, but can’t honestly say since my experiences are only going direct.  So looking back at paying the higher cost of PPG, Hollinger, Quaife etc. I’d have rather invested there because at this point I have no confidence in the manufacturer I invested in.  

So I own three gearsets and they know that, yet 13 months later am still waiting on a reply to my last inquiry in addition to the the parts that are still outstanding.  Not sure where I go from here other that to just count it a loss when the next failure or worn part eventually occurs.  So I really have nothing to lose at this point by putting it out here for everyone to see.  Certainly not going to order another gearset or two thinking I might be covered vs. going somewhere else.  

Take it for what it’s worth.  You can’t say nobody told you, but honestly my hope is for anyone else to receive better service and personal character you can believe in than myself and others have received.

Nobody Special.

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by NobodySpecial

[Dorifudo]

46 minutes ago, NobodySpecial said:

Did you actually receive it yet?  Because SOP there is to be friendly and talking it up at the beginning (as stated early in this thread) pretty much telling you everything you want to hear including a 8 - 12 week delivery, but then 12 or 13 months later after  making payment they no longer have much to say or be friendly about.  Not that it matters, because at some point you wise up and realize you’re not alone in being told the same old thing again, and again.  

Seems like a nice enough guy and you so want to believe and be understanding of it all, but then have to accept it’s not a coincidence that the same situations have been going on for years with multiple customers.  If you’re local or a citizen there at least you can go see them and press forward with a face-face experience.  It’s the international customers being required to pay 100% in advance who suffer the most 

So none of the people here are me:

https://performanceforums.com/forums/forum/technical/general-aa/208287-par-gearsets

I purchased a full gearset in Dec 2017 and it finally showed up in Jan 2019.  It’s a full gearset though and was ordered far enough in advance.  It didn’t really cause me any problem other than wondering if I was out the money after so much time.  So despite getting a bit twisted up towards the end of that ordeal, I was instead a bit more understanding after finally receiving it.

However, having purchased a used but broken PAR gearset and the purchase being based on the manufacturer living up to their infamous 8 - 12 weeks delivery quote for an input shaft with one gear that were ordered in early Jan. 2019, I’m still tripping over the broken gearbox sitting in my shop 13 months later. I was figuring on 6 or 7 months maybe which would have been fine.  Which around that time (July 2020) I was told it was mostly done and would be shipping soon.  

However, can you imagine a transmission potentially being down 13+ months later, the parts still unaccounted for, your full payment too, and another promised deadline from 6 weeks ago gone by again without a word being said, and then you can’t even get the courtesy of a reply inquiry about it?  Because i’m here to tell you, you better consider it.

On top of that I bought another barely used 3rd Par gearset from a private seller shortly after ordering those parts, not fully understanding what I was getting myself into.  So a month or two after being told the parts order was almost completed, I was then told the spline count for the gear was uncertain.  I inquired what needed to be done on my end to make sure we get it right and in repeated inquiries nothing more was ever said back to me about it.  Then in the last reply I was told this was an unhealthy situation for both of us and the parts would be completed by the end of Dec.  Well I may have been direct and to the point, but have never cursed the man or intentionally acted disrespectful.  I even told him it’d be even more unhealthy for both if us if the parts show up and don’t fit, making the same inquiry again, but it’s been crickets chirping ever since. 

It wasn’t unhealthy at all whenever I discussed possibly ordering another full gearset or custom flywheel.  I received an international call on Saturday to talk up the purchase buddy-buddy like then, but that’s par for the course.   I was at least woken up enough the 3rd time around to consider it might be wiser to complete this transaction first.  Because If doing business with PAR is an unhealthy situation, I can assure it’s not the customer who paid in full and waited patiently well past the same old 8 - 12 weeks falsehood who’s making it unhealthy. So being in manufacturing myself I get the issues and even now the covid realities, but the delays, multiple deadlines not met, excuses, 1+ year deliveries, and so on have been going on for years  

I’m not hear to cuss or carry on or put any person or company down, it’s just to share my experiences and having looked around at the experiences of others who dealt direct.  If I had been warned to buy two or three gearsets to avoid waiting over a year later to receive replacement parts then at least people can be prepared for that reality.  It might be different with a shop that specializes in supplying particular gearsets from them and maybe can grab parts off the shelf or possibly has a priority relationship, but can’t honestly say since my experiences are only going direct.  So looking back at paying the higher cost of PPG, Hollinger, Quaife etc. I’d have rather invested there because at this point I have no confidence in the manufacturer I invested in.  

So I own three gearsets and they know that, yet 13 months later am still waiting on a reply to my last inquiry in addition to the the parts that are still outstanding.  Not sure where I go from here other that to just count it a loss when the next failure or worn part eventually occurs.  So I really have nothing to lose at this point by putting it out here for everyone to see.  Certainly not going to order another gearset or two thinking I might be covered vs. going somewhere else.  

Take it for what it’s worth.  You can’t say nobody told you, but honestly my hope is for anyone else to receive better service and personal character you can believe in than myself and others have received.

Nobody Special.

 

Sorry to hear about your experience, I got my gearset through Neat Gearboxes. There was a hold up of about 4 weeks due me wanting the 26 spline input shaft as there were none in stock. All up I think it has taken 7 weeks from putting in the order to it being built and fitted into the donor box

[BK]

I had my PAR box in for about 2 years now and so far it's great. As above I got Sam at Neat Gearboxes in Adelaide to actually source my gearset from PAR. I had a holdup on the billet selector interlock barrel for about 3 months. All up my gearbox was about 5-6 months from start to finish because of that. I definitely think going through Neat Gearboxes is the best when dealing with PAR.

That said, after talking with Sam at Neat he's said he has issues like this with ALL of the box manufacturers with parts supply at times. That's all of them - Albins, Hollinger, Modena and even Pfitzner.

I don't want to sound like I'm defending shitty service, as the experience mentioned above really isn't good enough either.