r34 engine rebuild

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

All the Nissan 90s tech only drops straight up into a knock table (fuel and ignition tables). Zero boost control for knock.

RB20, RB25, RB26 do not run OBD, nor were they tuned for Amerijunk or Auscrap fuel.

[joshuaho96]

6 minutes ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

All the Nissan 90s tech only drops straight up into a knock table (fuel and ignition tables). Zero boost control for knock.

RB20, RB25, RB26 do not run OBD, nor were they tuned for Amerijunk or Auscrap fuel.

The intention with "OBD1" is to refer to pre-OBD2 diagnostics that were OEM-specific like Consult.

The 300ZX TT in the US at least would go to wastegate pressure if it detected knock. Common PPI inspection point is to see if the engine builds the specced boost. If it maxes out the stock gauge the car has been tuned, if it shows less than nominal boost then the ECU detected det or a malfunction.

Edited August 28, 2019 by joshuaho96

[Slap]

On 28/08/2019 at 4:18 PM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Neither have I lol...

I rely on common o2 sensor and generally look at the plugs to determine the fueling across the cylinders (highly inaccurate) but then again all the cars I tune aren't really big HP cars nor are they big dollar setups so individual EGTs or O2s are generally out of the budget.

Funny enough a ZRE152R (and on wards) Corollas run pre and post CAT EGTs and also a wideband plus MAF, MAP and IAT, where as 90s turbo charged Nissans ran an AFM, 1x narrow band O2 and they still didn't go bang, also another reason why there is so much room for improvement to extract HP.

If thats how you check the fueling and you run 98 octane bp or non ethanol 98, its wrong. Go to bp website and see for yourself that the lack of ethanol and the increase in toluene actualy make your plugs look richer than is actual .

[GTSBoy]

15 minutes ago, Slap said:

If thats how you check the fueling and you run 98 octane bp or non ethanol 98, its wrong. Go to bp website and see for yourself that the lack of ethanol and the increase in toluene actualy make your plugs look richer than is actual .

le sigh again. He's just seeing if they are even with each other. Not trying to set the mixtures a la 1970s "turn it off while at load and cost to the side of the road" plug tuning. Sheezuz.

[Slap]

Even so, the extra soot would make it dificult to tell unless there is a major defect.

A cylinder or more missfiring is generaly noticable and would be the right time to do it. 

Checking fueling levels across cylinders like that because of worry would not be accurate enough.

 

Its like taking advice off someone about skylines for your skyline when they like volkswagons more. Makes fark all sense to the skyline owner.

 

[Ben C34]

Slap, looking at plugs for variations is a completely sensible thing to do. It isn't going to be super accurate but will show differences.

The best would be 6 widebands, is that what you do? Or second best is egt. But even then thats an indirect measurement.

[Slap]

Yes but with high octane non ethanol blends the soot levels are higher. So it looks richer than it is and if you want to see if an injector isnt flowing correct would only be noticeable with a major defect. Wich would be noticeable prior.

To do it just to save worry or check A/F  is pointless and wrong.

The amount of toloune isnt represented and is probably inconsistent wich would also change the outcome.

Not saying its bad to do just wrong and pointless unless there is an unkown but promenent issue, due to soot from toluene.

If there is a minor injector flow rate difference using a single o2 wideband , closed loop fueling it for long enough to change the entire injector fueling to read right but be wrong (optimal cyl(s) over or under fuel the correction) would be the time to do it accuratley and also too late too. Unless you reset your ecu all the time then you would/might see the minor fueling issue correct itself wrongly quicker and maybe possible to tell.

Using load maps to check would be wrong as it would have hurt your engine but is the most probable time for people to notice.

[Murray_Calavera]

5 hours ago, Slap said:

Yes but with high octane non ethanol blends the soot levels are higher. So it looks richer than it is and if you want to see if an injector isnt flowing correct would only be noticeable with a major defect. Wich would be noticeable prior.

To do it just to save worry or check A/F  is pointless and wrong.

The amount of toloune isnt represented and is probably inconsistent wich would also change the outcome.

Not saying its bad to do just wrong and pointless unless there is an unkown but promenent issue, due to soot from toluene.

If there is a minor injector flow rate difference using a single o2 wideband , closed loop fueling it for long enough to change the entire injector fueling to read right but be wrong (optimal cyl(s) over or under fuel the correction) would be the time to do it accuratley and also too late too. Unless you reset your ecu all the time then you would/might see the minor fueling issue correct itself wrongly quicker and maybe possible to tell.

Using load maps to check would be wrong as it would have hurt your engine but is the most probable time for people to notice.

Ok, I'll bite. 

What are these 'load maps' you speak of?

I've heard of fuel maps, timing maps, but not 'load maps' - please enlighten me. 

[Ben C34]

Slap read something about toluene and now we get this nonsense. Cheers Slap.

[GeeDog]

10 hours ago, Slap said:

Its like taking advice off someone about skylines for your skyline when they like volkswagons more.

FFS, do you think that liking a particular make means you have to forget everything you ever knew about other makes. It isn't a marriage, no-one ever bought a Skyline & promised to "love honour & obey, forsaking all others" (except maybe Slap). 

[admS15]

Well, it is pretty close to school holidays...

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

9 hours ago, Slap said:

Yes but with high octane non ethanol blends the soot levels are higher. So it looks richer than it is and if you want to see if an injector isnt flowing correct would only be noticeable with a major defect. Wich would be noticeable prior.

To do it just to save worry or check A/F  is pointless and wrong.

The amount of toloune isnt represented and is probably inconsistent wich would also change the outcome.

Not saying its bad to do just wrong and pointless unless there is an unkown but promenent issue, due to soot from toluene.

If there is a minor injector flow rate difference using a single o2 wideband , closed loop fueling it for long enough to change the entire injector fueling to read right but be wrong (optimal cyl(s) over or under fuel the correction) would be the time to do it accuratley and also too late too. Unless you reset your ecu all the time then you would/might see the minor fueling issue correct itself wrongly quicker and maybe possible to tell.

Using load maps to check would be wrong as it would have hurt your engine but is the most probable time for people to notice.

The fk?

I pull out spark plugs on certain cars to see if there are any variations between each cylinder to see if the combustion is consistent across all cylinders on cars that run a single bank wideband o2. Without additional data, this another approach to determine consistent fueling and burn.

I don't use colour to judge or assume the air to fuel ratio, that is done with a wideband o2 sensor.

Also not sure what you going on here, please elaborate on the following:

• If there is a minor injector flow rate difference using a single o2 wideband , closed loop fueling it for long enough to change the entire injector fueling to read right but be wrong (optimal cyl(s) over or under fuel the correction) would be the time to do it accuratley
• Using load maps to check would be wrong as it would have hurt your engine but is the most probable time for people to notice.

[GTSBoy]

 

9 hours ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

The fk?

He either has absolutely no idea about anything, or he is absolutely incapable of expressing himself. Still haven't worked out which.

[Slap]

Having knowledge, terminology, pride and still ya karnt understand a basic rundown of your own checks or what is percieved to be.  

Personal digs deserve retribution!

Still the same people doing the same thing, and what can i say stiring the pot is a good laugh sometimes, other times i feel the burn you use to get rid of me.

I want knowledge as much as anyone and suffering stigmatized should not be part of it, yall dont handle similar.

And to no particular being ,Your red my green , sometimes you need glasses , somtetime they do.

So when im miss understood, please dont confuse people by talking about snot or putting me down, just ask and if so learn or teach.

I will go passive as long.

I believe..

Understanding is key to knowledge and wisdom

Articulate memory the key to intellect 

[Ben C34]

17 minutes ago, Slap said:

And to no particular being ,Your red my green ,

What song is this from?

[Slap]

15 hours ago, Murray_Calavera said:

Ok, I'll bite. 

What are these 'load maps' you speak of?

I've heard of fuel maps, timing maps, but not 'load maps' - please enlighten me. 

Open loop under load, both fuel an timming.

[Slap]

9 minutes ago, Ben C34 said:

What song is this from?

 Could be some lyrics?

just said it, that is all.

[Ben C34]

Slap, don't you tune with resistors and and a spanner?

[Slap]

I have b4.

I dont get dyno time. Always been to poor and had to go the hard yards to get what i have let alone afford to pop engines whilst experimenting.

Ill write a post up a post about anolouge hacking and what i achieved and did not.

But right now meh! Id just get bs back at me instead of a level of understand.

Y i was as is.

[Slap]

Mm k i read the lot now a few times and cant resist.

Rich n Retard on oem spec and map 32gtst ecu ...what i always believed is ...the knock map becomes active and actively monitor knock when a parameters are met, running in a closed loop mode adjusting back to an optimal pre determed/set figure when the car has acheived i think its 5 starts clean and warmed from cold it will go back to a tuned map or if reset.

 

Whilst R&R timming can be reduced activley when knock is heard (usualy to late and not enough 4 high hp build), 

Running 91 octane is loads different to leaning out or over boosting and neither are great but low boost lean condition or det or knock is far less detremental than high pressure high boost one.

With todays fuels cars can advance timming much more, so active controlling is actualy not so bad now and more common as the sensors ect...are faster. 

A tuned and properly mapped car can either be mapped to die or last. Simple with all the technology and info at hand to safe gaurd the motor. So a good tune would stop your car dying instantly but cant save it if you want it dead. A 700hp car on 91 to us aussies is bad but thats our 95 and as far as i can think Japan has been using ethanol since early 90 late 80s in there 'high octane fuel'.

Why not 1200hp and run 700 with room. There is 2khp blocks around if you do a conversion and the best choice in australia is an ls of sorts then the barra of chuck .. i mean ford. Being traditionilst dont...RBLYF.

$20K DIY 2-3 AND SELL THE SHITIER LEARNING BUILDS.

Gearboxes suk but 700hp youl need gtr spec upgraded min for safeish abuse or similar a tough farkin box anyways.

And to check those injectors best option is to know how your car runs and feels when good if theres a change in its behaviour or economy check each cylinder is firing at idle and find the coil pack that cause least change during when being unpluged ..one at a time ...find the cyl determine the issue ...spark ....compression....fuel. remembering to check vacum and boost to fuel regulator as a loss in pressure from less vac or more will /could change or impact fuel pressure simultaneous . Engine off now ...pull cas ... key on ignition on dont start it listen to pump determine normality, spin cas back and forth at different interceptions complying  with each incjection pulse ....listen for normalities determine as minor defect will be more noticable in less duty/flow situation...then pull plugs checking fouling/soot levels remember wich type of fuel you run ...expose cylinders to comp test and keep record (repeat after some drives also to help see if yo fixed the car b4 comp loss takes hold)...

by now one ...two....or....three...properties of the combustion prosscess can be excused and the other(s) investigated more thouroughly if needed.

Wide band gauge is delayed too much to save a bad leanout that is why it should be monitored by the ecu or other different automatic safegaurds.

Wow if you made it to here with out a brain fart or misinterpretation or without overly reading into it (my spelling and gramar) well done.

Please feel free to discuss the differences in oem ecu through eras if you believe your up forthe task anyone. I will have questions and staments posed as truths because of my whole hearted  beliefs in the whole lot.

I studied many posts 4 many years due to lack of funds and only having the shitiest equiptment i wanted and made my car work 4 me. Came on here and got told i was wrong..... And i dont mean gramar but it didnt help. But i did what i did and the car did what it did . And my monitoring system is 80s and oddball but the many possom holes to be found here at sau and r31owners is fundemntal to my development as an owner enthusist diy reneck car lover.

Ecu trickery to start and moves to ecu resolution expansion to cylinder comp ratios. It all works together the way it gets set. High idles , cam timings , fuel pressure , injectors ect...

Infact did you know gtr injectors are almost perfect size for e85 on stock maps in an rb20det with some advance?

270cc vs 444cc

Taking into account the density difference and flow corrections 7 years ago i worked out they are ~42% larger ?? made my safc happy and wallet sad, back to stockies with a 300zx tt fuel pump wired up and gtr fuel rail and dampeners and 98oct. The usualy bolt ons.

Hope it was an interesting and informative write up. Please ignore spelling and gramar and terminology error if you can.