What power can I make?

[jlabsurf]

This is my mod list and I'm wondering how much power I should be expected to make, and if I should use my haltech or my powerFC. I'm only listing power mods because all of the support mods are already there. A lot of the japanese guys out here know powerFC already. But if I go with my haltech I'll have to go for remote/online tuning.

 

Mods~

BNR34 N1 Turbos

Tomei Fuel Pump

Nismo Fuel Pressure Regulator

Splitfire Coil Packs

HKS Cam Gears

R35 Injectors

R35 MAFs

Nismo Super copper mix twin plate 

Apexi Intakes

Mines DP, HKS Front pipe, full exhaust (decatted)

 

How much can I expect to make safely with this? Motor is extremely healthy 165-168psi across all 6.

 

[GTSBoy]

You will make as much as the maximum flow of the turbos can achieve. Look to this thread.

 The only caveat is if the limits of the R35 injectors (or perhaps the AFMs, depending on what size tubes you have them in) are reached first. I can't be bothered working out if the turbos will run out of puff before the fuel supply does. You can do that.

Use the Haltech as first preference. Much better choice, local tuning ability notwithstanding. PowerFC will do the job, but you are just leaving yourself so far in the distant past by going down that route. Also, if you go Haltech, you can drop the AFMs in the bin and put a MAP sensor on, for about 10x easier inlet plumbing etc.

[jlabsurf]

5 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

You will make as much as the maximum flow of the turbos can achieve. Look to this thread.

 The only caveat is if the limits of the R35 injectors (or perhaps the AFMs, depending on what size tubes you have them in) are reached first. I can't be bothered working out if the turbos will run out of puff before the fuel supply does. You can do that.

Use the Haltech as first preference. Much better choice, local tuning ability notwithstanding. PowerFC will do the job, but you are just leaving yourself so far in the distant past by going down that route. Also, if you go Haltech, you can drop the AFMs in the bin and put a MAP sensor on, for about 10x easier inlet plumbing etc.

I was thinking about going MAP but I've heard people saying its terrible for partial throttle tuning, reading correct pressure unless theres plumbing to each individual throttle body inlet, etc. Is that true? What kind of work does it involve converting to MAP besides obviously removing AFMs.

Edited December 31, 2019 by jlabsurf

[robbo_rb180]

When I have converted to map just run a vac line to the ecu from a common vac block and can use tps as a load axis if needed. The haltech has plenty of resolution to fix all the light/partial throttle if the tuner knows  the product and setup correctly. Have a read on the haltech forum lots of info there.

[BK]

If you have a Power FC and a Haltech (platinum at a minimum I assume) you would be well aware of the capabilities of them, or finding out their limitations, before asking such as general question. I have GTRs with both MAP and AFMs and there definitely is no cons to MAP, which you would be well aware of without much research. Power FC d Jetro or a Haltech platinum ,/ elite runs MAP fine.

[BK]

By the way R35 injectors are piss weak at 560cc / min. Hardly an upgrade over the standard rb26 440cc injectors....

[GTSBoy]

6 hours ago, jlabsurf said:

unless theres plumbing to each individual throttle body inlet

Have you looked at the RB26 inlet manifold? It comes complete with exactly what you are talking about.

[jlabsurf]

17 hours ago, robbo_rb180 said:

When I have converted to map just run a vac line to the ecu from a common vac block and can use tps as a load axis if needed. The haltech has plenty of resolution to fix all the light/partial throttle if the tuner knows  the product and setup correctly. Have a read on the haltech forum lots of info there.

Awesome ill have a look at that thank you. 

 

12 hours ago, BK said:

If you have a Power FC and a Haltech (platinum at a minimum I assume) you would be well aware of the capabilities of them, or finding out their limitations, before asking such as general question. I have GTRs with both MAP and AFMs and there definitely is no cons to MAP, which you would be well aware of without much research. Power FC d Jetro or a Haltech platinum ,/ elite runs MAP fine.

While yes I know the capabilities of each ecu I noted a drawback in my plan would be that if I were to go with haltech it would be remote/online tuning as a drawback. That was the main point in that question.

While doing my research many were saying the biggest con to MAP is the partial throttle tuning being inaccurate etc. like I was talking about. Hence why I asked about it. Thank you for your input though, its good to hear there are no issues with MAP on your end.

11 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

Have you looked at the RB26 inlet manifold? It comes complete with exactly what you are talking about.

I meant like people say you need to have the plumbing from each throttle body inlet to a dedicated vacuum chamber to equalize the pressure between all 6? I have tried to do research to find what methods people have but there are many methods that are the "quick" and the "proper" way.

For example a guy said this "tap two threads into the center throttle plate after each throttle blade, then T them together into your map sensor." That just seems like a lot of work and excess vacuum lines to convert to MAP when the r35 MAFs can handle up to 600ps?

[BK]

2 hours ago, jlabsurf said:

For example a guy said this "tap two threads into the center throttle plate after each throttle blade, then T them together into your map sensor." That just seems like a lot of work and excess vacuum lines to convert to MAP when the r35 MAFs can handle up to 600ps

I agree that approach is overkill, but is the "proper" way to do it apparently. I used to run as per apexi's recommendation of tapping a nipple at cylinder 3 and 4, but that is because the d Jetro fc required twin MAP sensors. Now with the Haltech Elite with one 4 bar MAP sensor I pick it up off between the factory balance tube and PCV valve, as this is essentially still balancing all cylinders, hence why that chamber is there in the first place as GTSboy mentioned.

From all accounts though it seems like using the R35 AFMs are a winner if you can scale them correctly too.

I can't see why any tuner is going to have an issue tuning the Haltech, so remote tuning surely won't be nessesary.

[robbo_rb180]

5 hours ago, BK said:

I can't see why any tuner is going to have an issue tuning the Haltech, so remote tuning surely won't be nessesary.

I think there isn't many people in Japan using them or advertising that they tune them.
Find a workshop locally with a dyno who is happy to hire it, organise a few friends who want to upgrade ecu to modern Haltech/Link and get someone to come over & spend a few days tuning everyones cars. We use to do that where I live.
 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

On 31/12/2019 at 4:51 PM, jlabsurf said:

was thinking about going MAP but I've heard people saying its terrible for partial throttle tuning, reading correct pressure unless theres plumbing to each individual throttle body inlet, etc. Is that true?

If your tuner is lazy and a potato then yes will be horrible. However if you know what you're doing, and spend enough time it will actually drive better than the PowerFC.

You need to tune by TPS x RPM however add MAP as another dimension on top.

[joshuaho96]

I would recommend the R35 MAFs if you don't plan on going further but I also don't like the thought of using TPS as a load scale ever. Some are more comfortable with that than others.

[jlabsurf]

On 1/1/2020 at 12:42 PM, BK said:

I agree that approach is overkill, but is the "proper" way to do it apparently. I used to run as per apexi's recommendation of tapping a nipple at cylinder 3 and 4, but that is because the d Jetro fc required twin MAP sensors. Now with the Haltech Elite with one 4 bar MAP sensor I pick it up off between the factory balance tube and PCV valve, as this is essentially still balancing all cylinders, hence why that chamber is there in the first place as GTSboy mentioned.

From all accounts though it seems like using the R35 AFMs are a winner if you can scale them correctly too.

I can't see why any tuner is going to have an issue tuning the Haltech, so remote tuning surely won't be nessesary.

I think eventually I'll convert to MAP when I go single. But since I was given the r35 MAFs I'll try these out for now and see how the tune is. The problem with the haltech is that no one here in Japan uses it to tune. At least not in my area (Iwate).

 

On 1/1/2020 at 6:44 PM, robbo_rb180 said:

I think there isn't many people in Japan using them or advertising that they tune them.
Find a workshop locally with a dyno who is happy to hire it, organise a few friends who want to upgrade ecu to modern Haltech/Link and get someone to come over & spend a few days tuning everyones cars. We use to do that where I live.
 

Was thinking about it but not many of my japanese friends use haltech either XD. I am talking to a guy for remote tuning possibly and I do have a dyno I can rent out though.

 

On 1/2/2020 at 8:20 PM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

If your tuner is lazy and a potato then yes will be horrible. However if you know what you're doing, and spend enough time it will actually drive better than the PowerFC.

You need to tune by TPS x RPM however add MAP as another dimension on top.

I'll see what my guy says, who knows he might want MAP anyways. I'm going to go through Igarashi at SSI Engineering.

 

On 1/3/2020 at 4:05 AM, joshuaho96 said:

I would recommend the R35 MAFs if you don't plan on going further but I also don't like the thought of using TPS as a load scale ever. Some are more comfortable with that than others.

I do plan on going further but not for a while, gonna run this setup for the next year or two while I slowly build my other engine that will be single turbo 700+

[GTSBoy]

I would recommend only doing things once. Starting with AFMs and then redoing everything to suit MAP is wasted time and effort, and money.

Sell the AFM cards and invest in a MAP sensor.

[joshuaho96]

As GTSBoy said if you're planning on modifying the car further you may as well just skip the AFMs. You could put them in a different pipe size to get more power out of them but you will compromise low airflow resolution.

Also for single turbo 700+ hp it's worth considering going single throttle body just to run pure speed density instead of ITB blended modes. I think the benefits of ITBs are significantly overstated especially in RBs where torque response, especially in big turbo builds, is entirely limited by the response of the turbo.

ITBs make sense as long as you're staying near stock config, at most -9s or -7s and keeping AFMs. Pushing way beyond what Nissan engineers envisioned for the engine means you should think carefully about what should be kept and why.

Edited January 4, 2020 by joshuaho96