Torque controllers

[McGarryR32]

Looking for an upgrade to the 4wd on the R32. I know it’s been covered but I can’t seem to get any direct comparison or experience. 

Looking at the full race, or the do-luck dtm II .

has anyone any solid info on how they perform or which one would be best suited to a road car ? 

 

Thanks

[djr81]

To be fair you will struggle to get a meaningful comparison.  I have a torque controller but as for making a comparison with another I have absolutely no clue. FWIW the stock system on a road car is, when working properly, not a terrible thing.

Guess Ill ask anyway but what are you wanting to get out of your controller?  What deficiencies in the attessa system are you not enjoying?  Reason for asking is there is a history of worn or inadequately bled systems causing problems.

[KiwiRS4T]

3 hours ago, McGarryR32 said:

Looking for an upgrade to the 4wd on the R32. I know it’s been covered but I can’t seem to get any direct comparison or experience. 

Looking at the full race, or the do-luck dtm II .

has anyone any solid info on how they perform or which one would be best suited to a road car ? 

 

Thanks

The actual attessa systems on the R33 and R34 are each a major upgrade from the R32 system so just changing the controller may not give you a dramatic difference.

[GTSBoy]

32 minutes ago, KiwiRS4T said:

The actual attessa systems on the R33 and R34 are each a major upgrade from the R32 system so just changing the controller may not give you a dramatic difference.

The hardware (transfer case, etc) is actually not that much different. Better, yes, but the evolution was mostly in the electronics. Faster processors (particularly on the 34) and better "program" for torque distribution is where it's at.

[djr81]

On ‎1‎/‎23‎/‎2020 at 3:16 PM, GTSBoy said:

The hardware (transfer case, etc) is actually not that much different. Better, yes, but the evolution was mostly in the electronics. Faster processors (particularly on the 34) and better "program" for torque distribution is where it's at.

Yes but....

The start point is for the clutch pack in the system to be properly shimmed (Or even upgraded).  If the thing has too much clearance you wont be getting the correct amount of drive from the front wheels.

[Old man 32 GTR]

I’ve just installed a motec ecu in my GTR, the motec has it’s own software for 4wd control which I have, I’ll let you you know how it is when I get the car back, although it would be an expensive way to do it, if solely for the 4wd control 

[alexj]

I've seen the Motec centre diff controller hardware but not aware of a software option "out of the box", so I guess you are using a Skyline GTR specific firmware build that provides centre diff control, who is providing that?

[BK]

12 hours ago, alexj said:

I've seen the Motec centre diff controller hardware but not aware of a software option "out of the box", so I guess you are using a Skyline GTR specific firmware build that provides centre diff control, who is providing that?

You mean transfer case. Geez, so annoying when someone refers to a GTR with a centre differential (very American it seems). There is a rear diff, a front diff and a bloody transfer case with a multiplate clutch like a LandCruiser 4wd.

They are not a WRX or an Emo. (Don't hate rexes, I own them)

Simple solution is Midori Seibi Red controllers - set and forget solution. I have one in my 32 and one sitting here ready when I can be fcked to install into the 33.

As mentioned above though, most important is to have a reliable transfer case in the first place (and decent diffs). Remember the GTR is not supposed to be like the above mentioned cars with constant AWD.

[BK]

On 23/01/2020 at 4:46 PM, GTSBoy said:

The hardware (transfer case, etc) is actually not that much different. Better, yes, but the evolution was mostly in the electronics. Faster processors (particularly on the 34) and better "program" for torque distribution is where it's at.

Physically the 33 and 34s had the failsafe secondary solenoid which provides the hydraulic preload in the transfer case which 32s don't have. 4WD actuation is faster. Other than that, this is absolutely correct, it's all about the Atessa ECU sampling faster, and therefore outputting faster. 33 transfer case physically is IDENTICAL to 32 internally and far superior to a 34 transfer case for torque loading (weaker internal chain drive, much narrower). 34 does have added yaw control though for active rear diffs in v specs, but it's pretty useless apparently. Everyone needs a mechanical rear really....Midori has an upgraded yaw sensor for 34s though for those inclined.

About to do another 10 plate transfer mod next month for my Dad's GTR, this time I (or he) will do a comprehensive walkthrough on the do's and don'ts when modifying one and making them better than standard.

[Old man 32 GTR]

5 hours ago, alexj said:

I've seen the Motec centre diff controller hardware but not aware of a software option "out of the box", so I guess you are using a Skyline GTR specific firmware build that provides centre diff control, who is providing that?

@alexj I bought my motec through Powertune in Sydney, they wrote their own software package specifically for the GTR, with the purchase of an additional wiring loom the motec now controls the 4wd, (attessa is disconnected) I will have 4 modes which are preset and controlled through a pdm. Rwd, standard, one setting designed for circuit driving and one setting for drag racing. 

[joshuaho96]

5 hours ago, BK said:

Physically the 33 and 34s had the failsafe secondary solenoid which provides the hydraulic preload in the transfer case which 32s don't have. 4WD actuation is faster. Other than that, this is absolutely correct, it's all about the Atessa ECU sampling faster, and therefore outputting faster. 33 transfer case physically is IDENTICAL to 32 internally and far superior to a 34 transfer case for torque loading (weaker internal chain drive, much narrower). 34 does have added yaw control though for active rear diffs in v specs, but it's pretty useless. Everyone needs a mechanical rear really....Midori has an upgraded yaw sensor for 34s though for those inclined.

About to do another 10 plate transfer mod next month for my Dad's GTR, this time I (or he) will do a comprehensive walkthrough on the do's and don'ts when modifying one and making them better than standard.

I was under the impression that the yaw sensor on the R34 is actually for HICAS, not the A-LSD.

[alexj]

I've got a decent amount of logged data from my 32 running both the stock attesa ecu with an aftermarket controller (skylab specifically but they all work similar) and recently the full race etspro.

The main difference is the full race seems way more aggressive than the stock system especially in relation to throttle position and also it pre-loads the transfer case clutch pack (like the 33) so when it reacts the actual torque transfer is much quicker.

If you aren't chasing lap times the stock system (assuming its healthy) with a piggy back controller is pretty sweet and the little lag you get on a 32 just makes for a bit more opposite lock and some extra fun and its easy to drive around it. The stock system also has some features/modes that more track/race developed system won't have, and will have had some serious vehicle dynamics time put into it so will probably work better in a wider range of conditions that you might see in a road car.

[BK]

15 hours ago, joshuaho96 said:

I was under the impression that the yaw sensor on the R34 is actually for HICAS, not the A-LSD.

No, the yaw control sucks. Was marketed as supposed to be specifically meant for the active diff, it doesn't. Not sure how it affects the HICAS, and it probably does in some way (haven't looked into it), but yaw control is definitely for the active R34 GTR diff. It does not affect how the 4WD torque split behaves unlike an Evo. Evo's have the yaw control and does affect how the front to rear and side to side torque distribution occurs, they can diagonally distribute torque across chassis.

Anyhow this is this is the Midori unit in question for changing the active diff operation:

https://www.rhdjapan.com/midori-seibi-center-digital-yaw-rate-sensor-unit-bnr34-v-spec.html

This is a little bit of topic anyway as it's not to do with the original query about front to rear torque split.

[joshuaho96]

5 minutes ago, BK said:

No, the yaw control is specifically meant for the active diff. Not sure how it affects the HICAS, and it probably does in some way, but yaw control is definitely for the active R34 diff. It does not affect how the 4WD torque split behaves unlike an Evo. Evo's have the yaw control and does affect how the front to rear and side to side torque distribution occurs.

Anyhow this is this is the Midori unit in question:

https://www.rhdjapan.com/midori-seibi-center-digital-yaw-rate-sensor-unit-bnr34-v-spec.html

This is a little bit of topic anyway as it's not to do with the original query about front to rear torque split.

Definitely a bit of a tangent but still interesting. My source is here: https://www.gtr.co.uk/threads/handling-differences-due-to-mechanical-vs-a-lsd-r33-r34-gtr.176499/page-2

If you have some proof that the yaw sensor in question does in fact connect to the ATTESA system for A-LSD control I would be interested to learn more.

[BK]

Did you read the description on RHD ? It is incorrect.

 

[joshuaho96]

I'm aware of the Midori sensor, they have more info here: http://midoriseibi.co.jp/tuning/r34/yaw-rate-sensor.html

If you read the link that I put up it says this:

Quote

akasakaR33 said:

All I know now, is that Midori Seibi has just come out with a Digital Yaw Rate sensor, not for HICAS, but for the V-Spec A-LSD.
Basically it says that the digital sensor replaces the OEM analog one, hence ensuring faster, more accurate response by the A-LSD. Better traction too.

Odd. These pages are out of the R34 GT-R Service Manual supplement. I know what I have seen on R34's. I am not aware of an early and late change, as you can see here - Yaw rate is part of HICAS. No Yaw rate in the ATTESA ETS- PRO system.

 

[BK]

Ok I read into it and that thread, and yes the yaw sensor definitely connects directly to the HICAS ECU according to my manual info. I thought we were missing something somewhere about how this information is shared / communicated to the Atessa ECU, but it doesn't look like there is anything. Would explain why the 34 A-lsd is still shit then I guess - the yaw sensor is a complete waste of time and does basically nothing.

Back on topic though, we are talking R32 here so the yaw stuff is not relevant in his torque split needs.

The ultimate stand alone system appears to be the full race setup. Looks awesome, but appears to be overboard for a pure street car.