(budget) Consult readers for OBD port, what are my options ?

[LeWidget]

Hey guys,

I had a search on here, but all the similar threads were several years old, and didn't really have the answer I was after, so hope it's ok I made a new thread.

Mums car is a late 03' Nissan Pulsar, which has an OBD style port. From researching last several days, it's likely using Nissan Consult, but with an OBD port for some reason. Because of this, my cheap ebay-job Bluetooth OBDII reader doesn't connect.

So was wondering, what are my options? I read some people getting an ECUTalk cable to go from OBD-port > USB, but at $115 + postage for a cable to only support Consult on Nissan seems a bit steep (for me atm).
If the pin-out in the port is different to the pins in the reader, could I get an adapter that converts them around so the standard reader can read the ECU? Or do the pins not matter, and it comes down to whether the reader can read the Consult protocol, hence why standard readers don't work ?

I did read somewhere, can't remember where, that a standard reader would work as long as it's CANBUS compatible ?

The other threads mention pricey (imo) adapters/cables/devices etc.. but being several years old, was wondering if anything's come out (cheap) since that's much cheaper? Perhaps China has knocked off another consult compatible reader, and selling for less?

ECUTalk USB Cable with OBDII plug ($105 + post)

For the very few Nissan vehicles with a OBDII plug
that are NOT really OBDII, but still original Consult:
Patrol/Navara/Terrano with TB45E or non-CRD ZD30
R50 Pathfinder with VG33E. Any other, contact us.
Wont work on REAL OBDII cars!

Sorry if the question is vague, still getting my head around it, and confusing why Nissan would use an OBD-style port with their own protocol :/.

My main reasons for getting one is so I can scan/delete fault codes,  run relearning procedures, and check to see if the readings are within spec (for fault finding) I think the Nissan Data Scan app allows this iirc.

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by LeWidget

[Duncan]

The basic OBD pin outs are the same, so you don't miss any messages that the software/reader understands.  Depending on car, there are non-standard pins connected as well but they provide non standard data, eg ATTESSA codes in GTRs. Nissan Consults understand all of these combinations although they have a couple of models depending on car year too (2, 3 and 3+ I believe)

The problem lies in the software/reader display not knowing how to decode non-standard messages and in my experience its a bit hit and miss.  Scan tools that read a wide range of vehicles and have all that R&D are $10-20k. 

I've had most luck with my nissans with greddy informeter which has supported my OBD Titan, J-ODB Cima and Consult Stagea, didn't get anything from the Leaf though (not that it has an engine). It shows different information for each which reinforces all the different protocols over time need different coding.

If you have a one off error code that needs reading and the $20 bluetooth adapters and free software don't show it, by far the best approach is to take it to a mechanic with a good scan tool and just pay up the $100 or whatever they ask, since you should also get guidance on what the actual problem is (or at least next steps in troubleshooting are)

No idea why there are so many different approaches, but I think part of the answer lies in the fact these protocols have developed over 25 years, and while US mandate a set of OBD messages, they are a minor slice of the new car market, china buy 5 times as many per year

[GTSBoy]

Aaaaaaaaannd.....it's a 2003 Pulsar. Don't spend any money on it.

[nouveau_poor]

If it's an OBD port, you could try something from here:

http://www.buyobd.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6

I use the bluetooth one and it works fine with NDS. You might be able to get it to connect to your phone or laptop that way if usb is giving you issues. Cheap, so might be worth a shot if you haven't considered already.

I once tried an OBDII bluetooth dongle (might be the same as yours, it's clear blue plastic) with a 16 to 14 pin convert cable to see if it would work. It didn't, as one might expect. 

[LeWidget]

 

On 1/31/2020 at 7:46 AM, Duncan said:

The basic OBD pin outs are the same, so you don't miss any messages that the software/reader understands.  Depending on car, there are non-standard pins connected as well but they provide non standard data, eg ATTESSA codes in GTRs. Nissan Consults understand all of these combinations although they have a couple of models depending on car year too (2, 3 and 3+ I believe)

The problem lies in the software/reader display not knowing how to decode non-standard messages and in my experience its a bit hit and miss.  Scan tools that read a wide range of vehicles and have all that R&D are $10-20k. 

I've had most luck with my nissans with greddy informeter which has supported my OBD Titan, J-ODB Cima and Consult Stagea, didn't get anything from the Leaf though (not that it has an engine). It shows different information for each which reinforces all the different protocols over time need different coding.

If you have a one off error code that needs reading and the $20 bluetooth adapters and free software don't show it, by far the best approach is to take it to a mechanic with a good scan tool and just pay up the $100 or whatever they ask, since you should also get guidance on what the actual problem is (or at least next steps in troubleshooting are)

No idea why there are so many different approaches, but I think part of the answer lies in the fact these protocols have developed over 25 years, and while US mandate a set of OBD messages, they are a minor slice of the new car market, china buy 5 times as many per year

 

With Nissan Consult, is Consult the name/type of protocol, or is it just what Nissan calls their OBD system? If so, what protocol is used by Nissan that would connect / decode Nissans data ? If the pinouts the same, then any OBD reader that can run on the same protocol Nissan uses, should work ?
I looked at the Greddy Informeter, but price is a bit steep for me :/. Closest thing I've seen would be the ECUTalk cable, but that's for PC.

Was hoping to avoid taking it to a mechanic, as I don't know for sure whether a code exists or not. So might be a massive gamble :/. I think there's a manual way to check codes, maybe I could try that, but much fiddling I think.
 

On 1/31/2020 at 10:25 AM, GTSBoy said:

Aaaaaaaaannd.....it's a 2003 Pulsar. Don't spend any money on it.

Can't really afford not to. Can't afford a new(er) car at the moment, so will need this one.
 

On 1/31/2020 at 12:58 PM, nouveau_poor said:

If it's an OBD port, you could try something from here:

http://www.buyobd.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6

I use the bluetooth one and it works fine with NDS. You might be able to get it to connect to your phone or laptop that way if usb is giving you issues. Cheap, so might be worth a shot if you haven't considered already.

I once tried an OBDII bluetooth dongle (might be the same as yours, it's clear blue plastic) with a 16 to 14 pin convert cable to see if it would work. It didn't, as one might expect. 

The port in the car is OBD, but the protocol is Consult from what I've been told, so even though the physical port is OBD, it's not OBD :/.

The reader I have is the plain black bluetooth ELM327, but that just reads OBD2, not Nissan Consult.
 

I checked the link, the only thing I can see is under OBD Nissan, http://www.buyobd.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=40 but doesn't mention Consult, plus I'm not too sure of the port connection for this one, as all the ones I've seen for Consult, are the Consult style ports, not the OBD kind.
The other one there that mentions 'Consult', it says it's for earlier model cars.
http://www.buyobd.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=1


Regards,

 

[GTSBoy]

1 minute ago, LeWidget said:

Can't really afford not to. Can't afford a new(er) car at the moment, so will need this one.

No, I meant buying anything that costs more than $20 to plug into the diagnostic port. Take it to a workshop that has a decent diagnostic code reader and fling them $10 to borrow it for 2 minutes in their driveway.

[Duncan]

15 hours ago, LeWidget said:

With Nissan Consult, is Consult the name/type of protocol, or is it just what Nissan calls their OBD system? If so, what protocol is used by Nissan that would connect / decode Nissans data ? If the pinouts the same, then any OBD reader that can run on the same protocol Nissan uses, should work ?

.....The port in the car is OBD, but the protocol is Consult from what I've been told, so even though the physical port is OBD, it's not OBD :/.......

Basically, it's confusing.

Nissan call the scanners their dealers have Consult (2,3, or 3+ that I know of). in the 80s and early 90s before they started using OBD ports, they called the nissan proprietary grey diagnostic plug the Consult Port. AFAIK Nissan don't refer to Consult as a protocol, but that doesn't mean people selling aftermarket tools wouldn't do so. 

Bottom line is that an OBD compliant car provides a minimum specified set of data through an OBD port. Your car, and lots of other older Nissans, are not OBD compliant so your scan tool of choice needs to understand the non-OBD protocol to read messages.

[GTofuS-T]

On 1/31/2020 at 9:25 AM, GTSBoy said:

Aaaaaaaaannd.....it's a 2003 Pulsar. Don't spend any money on it.

seriously this... all a Nissan Pulsar needs is a service at your desired interval 5-10k kms or annually and she'll be right... the geek in me understands its fun to see all that data but it's just not necessary, especially if budget is of concern... ecutalk IS the budget option, keep an eye out for a second hand one in the meantime (but don't hold your breath). the generic ebay USB ones also work fine but for PC of course and still have to get your hands on the software ?‍☠️.

[LeWidget]

21 hours ago, GTofuS-T said:

the geek in me understands its fun to see all that data but it's just not necessary, especially if budget is of concern

All the gauges don't interest me much, it's only the re-learning capabilities (which I think are software dependent) and scanning/removing fault codes.

21 hours ago, GTofuS-T said:

ecutalk IS the budget option, keep an eye out for a second hand one in the meantime (but don't hold your breath). the generic ebay USB ones also work fine but for PC of course and still have to get your hands on the software ?‍☠️.

So far, the ECUTalk USB cable seems to be the only option (besides more expensive units) for Consult, though they say their software doesn't support relearning, I'd have to look at something like Nissan Data Scan for windows.
I have come across readers with the Consult-style ports on them for around $30  14 Pin For Nissan Consult Interface Usb (some on ebay too), but reading the description, I think it might be a Consult I reader. Not sure if these readers are able to read data from Consult II via some sort of 16 OBD II > 14pin Consult adapter, or if you can get such adapters, it doesn't mention it in the Ad.
Searching ebay, aliexpress, Amazon, I don't see anythinh advertised Consult II either, it's usually on Consult, or Consult 3.

Would have thought after nearly 2 decades, cheaper scanners would be more readily available :/.

Duncan, do you happen to know what protocols Nissans Consult relies on ?

[GTSBoy]

It's just serial. But it's based around command and data structures that are Nissan specific.

[Duncan]

I'm sorry if I sound circular, but Nissan used different protocols over different years in different cars in different countries.  They designed their Consult machines to understand them and didn't give a flying whether the aftermarket did, or if there is a cheap option to read them 20 years later. They want you to buy a new Tiida or whatever Renault based shitbox they sell today.

If you want to read codes on an older car, don't expect someone today is working on cracking that protocol to make it easy and cheap for you. I know that sucks but that is capitalism.

In any case, I think this is a red herring dead end blind alley blank wall. Your stalling issue is probably mechanical not ECU related. I applaud your efforts to work it out yourself but I suggest less ECU and more basic mechanical. Does it get the right fuel for the air it actually receives and apply the right timing at idle? ignition or timing issue, air leak, dodgy injector or fuel pressure etc etc

[LeWidget]

I just want do as much as I can before taking it to a mechanic. Problem is, many mechanics tend to throw parts at a problem and hope they stick at customer expense. That's what I want to avoid. Was hoping to get a cheap option to at least scan codes, in case there were errors I can tackle before proceeding.

Not to sound like a broken record, but a service manual I found contains a section (On Board Diagnostic System Description) which mentions using Generic Scan Tools

"Generic Scan Tool (GST) Description
Generic Scan Tool  (OBDII scan tool) complying with ISO 15031-4 has 9 different functions explained on the next page. 
ISO 9141 is used as the protocol
The name "GST" or "Generic Scan Tool" is used in this service manual."

I attached the section from the manual that mentions it.

My understanding from reading that is the car can read 9 modes using generic scan tools with the ISO 15031-9 support? Not sure what my reader supports, it's a few years old, but could be why it couldn't connect, and access the 9 modes as a generic scan tool? or have I misunderstood ?

Other than this, you're probably right, there doesn't appear to be any other option other than ECUTalk or taking to Nissan dealer.  


Thanks again, much appreciate the help, and patience.

ec.pdf

[GTSBoy]

NONONONONONONONONONONO!

Just do what I said in the other thread. Go to ANY mechanic. Any mechanic at all. They all have code readers. Plug theirs in and see what it says.

[GTofuS-T]

If you look through that document you attached, you'll also notice it lists every diagnostic step possible "With CONSULT" or "Without CONSULT"

a pain in the ass, counting/timing light output, but also an option, i'm sure in there somewhere it tells you how to initiate it, something to do with connecting 2 of the pins with  a wire

[LeWidget]

1 hour ago, GTSBoy said:

Go to ANY mechanic. Any mechanic at all. They all have code readers. Plug theirs in and see what it says.

I'll call around and see what they say/charge. I would have preferred having my own reader so I had one on hand for more than one occasion.
 

26 minutes ago, GTofuS-T said:

If you look through that document you attached, you'll also notice it lists every diagnostic step possible "With CONSULT" or "Without CONSULT"

 Thanks GTo, I'll give that a shot. I only saw the steps for manually doing idle air relearn, though when I tried it, I couldn't really do step 7 "Disconnect throttle position sensor harness connector (brown),
then reconnect it within 5 seconds" as my TB only had the single green connector, instead of the brown + grey connectors, so wasn't sure if this procedure happened to be for a different series/model N16.

Edited February 4, 2020 by LeWidget

[Sam75]

On 1/31/2020 at 6:47 AM, LeWidget said:

Hey guys,

I had a search on here, but all the similar threads were several years old, and didn't really have the answer I was after, so hope it's ok I made a new thread.

Mums car is a late 03' Nissan Pulsar, which has an OBD style port. From researching last several days, it's likely using Nissan Consult, but with an OBD port for some reason. Because of this, my cheap ebay-job Bluetooth OBDII reader doesn't connect.

So was wondering, what are my options? I read some people getting an ECUTalk cable to go from OBD-port > USB, but at $115 + postage for a cable to only support Consult on Nissan seems a bit steep (for me atm).
If the pin-out in the port is different to the pins in the reader, could I get an adapter that converts them around so the standard reader can read the ECU? Or do the pins not matter, and it comes down to whether the reader can read the Consult protocol, hence why standard readers don't work ?

I did read somewhere, can't remember where, that a standard reader would work as long as it's CANBUS compatible ?

The other threads mention pricey (imo) adapters/cables/devices etc.. but being several years old, was wondering if anything's come out (cheap) since that's much cheaper? Perhaps China has knocked off another consult compatible reader, and selling for less?

ECUTalk USB Cable with OBDII plug ($105 + post)

For the very few Nissan vehicles with a OBDII plug
that are NOT really OBDII, but still original Consult:
Patrol/Navara/Terrano with TB45E or non-CRD ZD30
R50 Pathfinder with VG33E. Any other, contact us.
Wont work on REAL OBDII cars!

Sorry if the question is vague, still getting my head around it, and confusing why Nissan would use an OBD-style port with their own protocol :/.

My main reasons for getting one is so I can scan/delete fault codes,  run relearning procedures, and check to see if the readings are within spec (for fault finding) I think the Nissan Data Scan app allows this iirc.

 

Hi mate, what did you end up doing? I am in similar situation, engine light is on and don't want spend $60 for only code reading by a mechanic. did you find out which budget scanner is compatible with Nissan Pulsar N16?

Cheers,

Sam