600 WHP RB26 Goal

[djarrett91]

Hi all just another 600awhp thread. I did a search but all the old threads were quite old and as we know technology does get better so here is a newer thread., I just picked up an HKST04Z single turbo kit at what i think was a good price for my R33 GTR. I am looking at making 600awhp with the intentions of using a flex fuel tune so E85 should get me there. Basically from a bit of research the below parts should get me to a stage to achieve this goal at a budget. Please if you have any advice or think i should change something then all ears are open. The fuel pump is mainly my biggest concern.

Ill be going with a Link ECU with Flex Fuel and Boost Control. We will soften the limiter up as much as possible to prevent harmonics destroying the oil pump as still a standard motor.

Larger Intercooler ( Already in car )

HKS T04Z Turbo, Manifold and wastegate ( Purchased )

HKS Fuel Rail ( Purchased )

1000cc Denso Injectors ( Purchased )

Nismo Super Copper Mix Clutch ( Installed )

Either HKS or Tomei drop in Cams ( Not Purchased ) Should i get adjustable cam gears or not really required? Also will Valve Springs be warranted for my goal? 

Use a standard oil Pump with Billet Gears ( Not Purchased )

1.5mm Head Oil re-stricter ( Not Purchased ) Is this all i need to do ?

After market Head Gasket to handle the extra Boost. Will i have to deck the block and head for this?

Walbro 460LPH Intank Pump ( Not Purchased ) Would this work as a replacement in tank pump? Will i need to run a bigger supply line for this power? I do want to avoid mounting a surge tank but at the end of the day if i have to i will. 

Fuel Regulator ( Not Purchased )

ARP 2000 series head studs ( Not Purchased )

If i need anything else then let me know. Obviously ill be replacing all of the coolant hoses and intake gaskets while the motor is out.

If anyone is selling any of the above parts that i may require then flick me a PM. Cheers

 

 

[BK]

Hi there. Have some good Camtech cams basically new, not drop in, but you don't want drop ins because it limits the lift you can run. Cams have changed a lot now too, and Kelfords and Camtech in Australia are arguably considered a lot better than the Jap offerings because of their ramp rates. Specs below or go to Camtech site.

 

Camtech CT3536/37 445B R32 / R33 RB26 inlet / exhaust camshafts - 272 deg. 9.7mm lift. Trial fitted only. They do require slight clearancing on head because of the lift.

[GTSBoy]

1 hour ago, djarrett91 said:

Either HKS or Tomei drop in Cams ( Not Purchased ) Should i get adjustable cam gears or not really required? Also will Valve Springs be warranted for my goal?

As BK says, there are better cams available.

1 hour ago, djarrett91 said:

1.5mm Head Oil re-stricter ( Not Purchased ) Is this all i need to do ?

Read the last 100 pages of the oil control thread. I am serious.

1 hour ago, djarrett91 said:

Will i have to deck the block and head for this?

Who knows? Depends on what your head and block look like, yeah?

1 hour ago, djarrett91 said:

Fuel Regulator ( Not Purchased )

You don't really need one, but seeing as you're intent on using an aftermarket rail, you might as well. But you don't really need the rail either.

New timing belt, water pump are a good idea. Big 100cell cat.

Everything else seems fine.

[djarrett91]

2 hours ago, BK said:

Hi there. Have some good Camtech cams basically new, not drop in, but you don't want drop ins because it limits the lift you can run. Cams have changed a lot now too, and Kelfords and Camtech in Australia are arguably considered a lot better than the Jap offerings because of their ramp rates. Specs below or go to Camtech site.

 

Camtech CT3536/37 445B R32 / R33 RB26 inlet / exhaust camshafts - 272 deg. 9.7mm lift. Trial fitted only. They do require slight clearancing on head because of the lift.

Hey Mate, I have actually been considering your Cams you have as i came accross them yesterday.

I used to live in Alice Springs and realized who you were. I used to race radio controlled cars against you at the local club and i also used to own Oscars old silver R32 GTR after he had sold it. I will keep in touch with you about the cams.

[BK]

Holy shit, really ?! Small world. Wow, man haven't been out there in years now, Work, Old, kids, yeah. What happened to Oscars GTR ?

Let me know on the cams. We were going to use them on the new white R32 GTR, but my Dad will be driving it on street mostly, and it is 2.6 with T78-29D so stock cams went back in.

[Old man 32 GTR]

Hi mate, welcome, 

looking at your list I think the 1000cc injectors will be at their limit for your power target so if you want some head room, go the 1650cc Bosch motorsport, these are also better with e85, as stated may as well go an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator. 
yes you can fit the 460 pump in your tank and you should get away with it with the factory lines. You will need a metal head gasket to hold boost, Tomei seems to be the go to. 
when you start to talk oil control you’d better open your wallet , the billet gear in the oil pump is a good idea, as is a head drain, extended baffled sump and an oil cooler, depends how far you want to go. 
these cars have a way of emptying your wallet! 
I haven’t had a dollar for the last two years! Lol 

[djarrett91]

 

15 hours ago, Old man 32 GTR said:

Hi mate, welcome, 

looking at your list I think the 1000cc injectors will be at their limit for your power target so if you want some head room, go the 1650cc Bosch motorsport, these are also better with e85, as stated may as well go an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator. 
yes you can fit the 460 pump in your tank and you should get away with it with the factory lines. You will need a metal head gasket to hold boost, Tomei seems to be the go to. 
when you start to talk oil control you’d better open your wallet , the billet gear in the oil pump is a good idea, as is a head drain, extended baffled sump and an oil cooler, depends how far you want to go. 
these cars have a way of emptying your wallet! 
I haven’t had a dollar for the last two years! Lol 

Yeah the 1000cc Injectors are definitely at their peak for 600whp. I have seen them hold this power and thought while i have them ill just use them up and if the issue arises ill deal with that when it comes.

I may toy with the option of running an extra line for the fuel supply but will see when im under the car next to see how to run it. Do you think the 460 pump will hold its own with out a surge tank and use it just as a direct replacement solely? I will also probably look at modifying the wiring to the pump also as voltage drop will most likely occur being an old loom. 

Oil control is one of those things that is not hard to empty your bank account on as i have been there before haha. Everyone has so many experiences with their own ideas etc. I am trying to keep it at a budget on this build though.

The car will in no way be a track car with this build. Possibly the 1 or 2 runs at the strip or roll racing but predominantly it will be a once or twice a month street driven car giving it the odd squirt here and there. 

[djarrett91]

Quote

16 hours ago, BK said:

Holy shit, really ?! Small world. Wow, man haven't been out there in years now, Work, Old, kids, yeah. What happened to Oscars GTR ?

Let me know on the cams. We were going to use them on the new white R32 GTR, but my Dad will be driving it on street mostly, and it is 2.6 with T78-29D so stock cams went back in.

Yeah mate small world indeed. i was the same i grew out of it and started playing with real cars haha. Oscars GTR ended up going over east and is now known as HANIBL pushing over 1000hp.

If some one shows some interest in the cams let me know. I am just sorting through a few things for it. Cheers

 

[GTSBoy]

34 minutes ago, djarrett91 said:

I am trying to keep it at a budget on this build though.

Seriously, it doesn't have to be expensive to get the oil control stuff handled. But you do need to get the head off and you do need to cut a hole in the sump. So you do need to put in work.

Fixing the oil pump drive issue &/or upgrading the pump is not cheap, but that's not oil control. That's oil supply.

As I said, read the oil thread. We bashed through all the myths and bullshit and came up with a good recipe to follow. But there is a lot of stuff in there, so there is little option but to wade through the whole lot and let the consensus wash over you towards the end.

[djarrett91]

Quote

On 2/6/2020 at 8:43 AM, GTSBoy said:

Seriously, it doesn't have to be expensive to get the oil control stuff handled. But you do need to get the head off and you do need to cut a hole in the sump. So you do need to put in work.

Fixing the oil pump drive issue &/or upgrading the pump is not cheap, but that's not oil control. That's oil supply.

As I said, read the oil thread. We bashed through all the myths and bullshit and came up with a good recipe to follow. But there is a lot of stuff in there, so there is little option but to wade through the whole lot and let the consensus wash over you towards the end.

 

I have been slowly reading the oil control thread over the past week or so off and on. Geez there has been some intense debate over the years in that thread. The head will be off thats guaranteed so ill look into doing the oil return mods. Only question that has really stumped me which was conflicting in the thread early on. Since i am converting from twin to single turbo can i run the rear head drain into the unused turbo oil drain? and then bang a hole in the sump on the intake side to go to a catch can for the sump breather. Cheers for your response mate

Edited February 7, 2020 by djarrett91

[GTSBoy]

When you finish the oil control thread you will come to the realisation that the rear oil drain is no such thing and there are better ways to do it. This involves Running a decent sized hose from the top of the sump (fresh hole + fitting) to the cam covers.

The main thing about doing ANYTHING about oil drains is that it is not so much places for the oil to go down that you are creating, as much as places for the crankcase gases to come up. When the gases are coming up and the oil is trying to go down, through the same smallish holes (in the block) then the oil loses and gets blown up. If you increase the area available for the gases, the velocities decrease and the oil has a chance to go down where it is supposed to. So it is actually easier and better to put in hoses to take care of the gas than it is to try to squeeze oil back in through a disused turbo oil drain.

[KiwiRS4T]

15 minutes ago, djarrett91 said:

I have been slowly reading the oil control thread over the past week or so off and on. Geez there has been some intense debate over the years in that thread. The head will be off thats guaranteed so ill look into doing the oil return mods. Only question that has really stumped me which was conflicting in the thread early on. Since i am converting from twin to single turbo can i run the rear head drain into the unused turbo oil drain? and then bang a hole in the sump on the intake side to go to a catch can for the sump breather. Cheers for your response mate

You can usefully start the oil control thread from the middle. As above forget about the so-called "head drain" crank case  breather is where its at.

[BK]

It's pretty funny that all the big workshops still do it then eh ? CRD, Maatouks ect. I totally agree with the oil control thread with the head drains being more sump breathers rather than oil returns. That said my 32 has one direct to sump and the 2nd 32 we have just done this as you mentioned to the rear unused turbo oil return in block, it can't hurt. I spoke in detail with Con from CRD about this, and decided to go through with it after that.

One thing in the oil control thread which is good in theory, but really a bad idea is the enlargening of the block oil return galleries. Yes it will work for the purpose of the oil side, but as someone who has cracked RB26 blocks before I'd never do it. The last thing I want to do is weaken the already fairly fragile RB26 block, which is also why the big workshops don't do it. I'll take block integrity thanks.

 

[GTSBoy]

Most of those workshops are building drag cars and a rear oil drain is gravitationally attractive.

I'm personally of the opinion that there are valid reasons for ever-so-slightly enlarging the oil drains in the block. At the very least, radiusing and smoothing the tops (and maybe bottoms) of them can't hurt. A more vague thing is that a machined hole in a casting is stronger than an as cast hole. The cutting/machining leaves a surface that is slightly toughened and less likely to crack. The problem in this context is only drilling out such a tiny amount (so as not to remove material that is critical to block strength) yet still provide a machined surface, not one that's just "rubbed" by the bit.

Anyway, I think when you're getting to those considerations you're either building a gold plated motor and so have a bajillion dollars to spend on everything, or you are building a gold plated motor and so have a bajillion dollars to buy new blocks.

[BK]

Absolutely true, but can't hurt though if it is installed ? Still creates that extra path for the sump gasses, even if it's not "technically" a head drain. I wouldn't go through the trouble of ripping the head of just for a head drain though.

[djarrett91]

Quote

When you finish the oil control thread you will come to the realisation that the rear oil drain is no such thing and there are better ways to do it. This involves Running a decent sized hose from the top of the sump (fresh hole + fitting) to the cam covers.

The main thing about doing ANYTHING about oil drains is that it is not so much places for the oil to go down that you are creating, as much as places for the crankcase gases to come up. When the gases are coming up and the oil is trying to go down, through the same smallish holes (in the block) then the oil loses and gets blown up. If you increase the area available for the gases, the velocities decrease and the oil has a chance to go down where it is supposed to. So it is actually easier and better to put in hoses to take care of the gas than it is to try to squeeze oil back in through a disused turbo oil drain.

After reading the entire thread i feel a lot more knowledgeable about oil return than i did before haha. A very good read to see how ideas can develop over time.

So i have decided for the oil control to go with the 1.5mm restricter in the head then tap 2 holes into the intake of the sump above the oil. Run one hose up to the CAM cover and the other up to the bottom of a baffled catch can. Run 2 lines from the Cam covers into the top of that same catch can. Run one line from the top of the catch can to go in between the intake filter and turbo.

The only one that i really missed on what to do is from factory it has one of the lines from the cam cover that looks like it goes into the intake throttle body area. Does this still need to be plumbed in or can it be blocked off now as i am assuming it can be removed? 

[Stixbnr32]

Its interesting as my engine tuner/builder who used to have the fastest manual GTR in the world with a sub 8 sec pass (RB26 too) said head drains are pointless and the crank case pressure just forces more oil into the head and its better to just build it properly.

Im sure CRD/Maatouks might argue that point I guess and there results are solid now.

As for my build I run a catch can and just restrictors and baffles in the head.  Blow buy isnt really an issue at he moment.

Engine has done 40,000kms.

[burn4005]

laughs in -16 sump breather line