Mistakes were made, my R34 Story

[Kinkstaah]

I could do that, but the lowest impact on the bar is 10mm from the top (i.e almost directly in the center)

Yes, would gain some space via the 'radius' of the bar getting more clearance as its further away, but I'm not so sure on how well that math works with 5mm...

Machining them down is an option though, as well as grooving them to allow for the whiteline bush shape. Every mm counts in this scenario!

I also did reach out for a company that does custom swaybars also 😛

[Kinkstaah]

I finally figured out what was going on with my TC, after ... years. And all it took was looking back at a different logfile which looked like this:

This is a run where two wheels were messing up. One (the green one) had never had issues before. And strangely enough, later in the run where the green one was having issues, the red one was behaving itself, and going higher in speed than it previously had ever done without an issue.

How could this be occurring, while I'm driving, on a sensor I've never had issues with, that I've definitely not touched, and how could the red one give me different readings, something it's never done before.

Then it twigged.



This is the R34 ABS ecu, where the wires for speed sensors get spliced into.
My abomination of test wiring over the years meant I could never really clamp the "handle" down in the way I've attempted to illustrate.

.....

I went back and messed with the wiring to enable the ECU to actually make a proper connection. The 0.5mm copper washer I installed also worked. The problematic wheel kicks in at 13kmh (which is ideal, given the TC starts working at 14kmh by default, because 5/10% of 14kmh is well within margain of sensor error and you don't want cuts then.

Also none of the wheels have problems now. Because they're all plugged in properly, or.. more.. properlier than before.

Also funny enough, new GPS cable actually works great with the head unit.

All I pretty much have to do now is put my boot back together, mount the GPS sensor properly as opposed to taping it to the dash, and.. everything is fine...except the swaybar thing.

And a battery. And a dipstick bracket. But those are apparently being delivered to me soon.

soooon.

[Kinkstaah]

New brackets were made. They even looked better! 6mm! Wow!

Mount them up, all is actually fitting, looking good

Then we put the car on the actual ground before taking it out for a test, and realised that no-one, not me, not my friend doing the engine conversion task, not the two VASS Engineers that have looked at it, nor any other mechanic looked at the swaybar with the car actually on the ground.

Because it fouls. Just sitting there it's pressedfirmly up against the sump. No amount of spacing was ever going to save this. I wish I hadve looked at it on the ground before MANY hours were spent trying to make it work. Or looked at the OEM swaybar which would be in the same scenario.

 

I have googled some custom swaybar people, and removed the swaybar from the car. Anyone know anyone that will get back to me in a semi-prompt fashion?

As previously mentioned, car actually drives around quite nicely with no front sway at all, though I'm sure it's far from optimal.

[BK]

Hmm... take it the obvious path of contacting Whiteline about a custom swaybar has been tried and is a no go ?

[Kinkstaah]

On 10/5/2021 at 2:24 PM, BK said:

Hmm... take it the obvious path of contacting Whiteline about a custom swaybar has been tried and is a no go ?

They're on the list!

I contacted someone local who offered this service, and their builder had a "Can you supply a template" to which I said yeah, I can give you the bar and mark it out for you, or bring the car!

But they get theirs done by someone in NSW, and unsure as to whether they are operating.

May have to call a few people, and unfortunately tyre kick all of them, except the people that convince me the best that they can do it.

[Duncan]

well, when whiteline sold their swaybar factory and moved manufacturing offshore, Gary (sydneykid) bought that business and equipment and was running it as Selby's, but that didn't work out. I am not sure if they still operate under that or a different name, the factory was around Minto NSW.

a quick search found these guys who were apparently the original Selby's and are still manufacturing in Nowra NSW.  https://www.signatureswaybars.com.au/

I have not used either business under current ownership

[Duncan]

more complete (well, accurate) version of that story

https://www.ipraforum.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=3691

 

[BK]

On 05/10/2021 at 4:23 PM, Duncan said:

more complete (well, accurate) version of that story

https://www.ipraforum.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=3691

 

Right, that clears things up a bit as I was under the impression Selby's just expanded and turned into Whiteline.

[Kinkstaah]

My cursory information when googling seemed that a lot of places make their swaybars in NSW, and could easily engage someone like Signature Swaybars to actually make them.

No matter who it is, I got a very competitive quote ($350) through Hakon to make me one with 50mm clearance at the front, lead time 4-6 weeks, from this mysterious NSW business. They have a custom swaybar builder form, but you can't get to it from their website - Only through google.

And I can sell my Whiteline on. Again.

If it all fits up, I reckon thats about as good a deal as I'm possibly ever going to get, so I signed on the dotted line!

[No Crust Racing]

On 10/5/2021 at 5:44 PM, Duncan said:

well, when whiteline sold their swaybar factory and moved manufacturing offshore, Gary (sydneykid) bought that business and equipment and was running it as Selby's, but that didn't work out. I am not sure if they still operate under that or a different name, the factory was around Minto NSW.

a quick search found these guys who were apparently the original Selby's and are still manufacturing in Nowra NSW.  https://www.signatureswaybars.com.au/

I have not used either business under current ownership

I remember buying Bilstein's of him I think when that was the rage on here 20yrs ago. 

That's a name I haven't seen in yonks, was a knowledgeable dude. 

[Duncan]

Gary is still around but not working in the industry any more. He still does suspension engineering on various race cars including any time I need something looked at (not often these days). I still run his revalved non-adjustable bilsteins in mine and the handling is great.

[No Crust Racing]

That's what I had. 

I just had some additional spring base grooves cut into the body for some height adjustment also. 

 

[Kinkstaah]

I also have them! Though mine have since been re-valved to suit the molestations I've done on the car since.

Driven a few other R34's, can't say any rode or handled better.

[PranK]

I had them in my Stagea. They were brilliant. He was a trove of info that bloke.

[Kinkstaah]

Right, so wheeeere were we.

We were commuting around without a swaybar at the front for awhile. Until I heard...

a...noise.

A bad noise, a loud.. ticking...in-time-with RPM noise.

I also noticed my power steering leak just wasn't going away. Wisely, I went to consult with an actual mechanic this time for a second opinion/further guidance.

Upon hearing the sound, he immediately diagnosed it as Lifters (which is what it sounded like) but given I heard it from the bellhousing I thought it could be something in the bellhousing. Turns out the lifters are in the block, and that all immediately made sense.

Phew, no need to worry about clutch/gearbox things, I have to worry about lifter things instead which as just mentioned, are in the block.

Also:

1)      “Did you know your belts are misaligned and are starting to get chewed through?”

Uh no, no I didn’t know that. Turns out my new underdriven alternator pulley that was a direct bolt on, was not a direct bolt on, and needed to be machined down as below it is compared to the one on my stock alternator.

2)      “Your aircon dye is leaking out the bottom and generally everywhere”
Turns out the seals on my new AC system were 20 years old, and an old gasket had blown, all very surprising to me. These were replaced and system holding pressure now and no longer leaking..

3)      Power steering leak was traced to the solenoid that was no longer being used and half disassembled from nearly fouling on headers. An O-ring was sourced, only to find that the housing of the solenoid body itself had a crack, and when removed found that the other side of it was flat.

So a plate was machined up to just blank off the solenoid anyway, as the O-rings were in the rack itself. So no new rack needed. Hooray!
 

4)      I then learned my Power Steering had been broken since the conversion. What I thought was “Heavy but clearly working power steering” all this time was actually completely and utterly f**ked. The car now drives with slightly lighter than-OEM Nissan steering which was massive, massive, massive MASSIVE improvement which I didn’t expect!

Still, the lifters thing.

Then I had an idea, as my dipstick was still not connected to the car since the gearbox in (I had to get the bracket back from the other people). It was one of those last gasp ideas you have when you desperately want the problem to be something else.

I had always historically overfilled my oil, and wondered if I was getting oil leaks (turns out I do not actually have ANY oil leaks.. but didn’t know it at the time) because something was just overfilled and it seemed to track.

So I turned on my Accusump, filled up, then closed the valve.
Left the car on overnight, checked the oil. ¾ of the way to H. Perfect. The way I always checked the oil.

Still, mysteriously low oil pressure. I’m talking like 0.5 bar on the OEM gauge (which works in a R34).

I then realized my accusump and oil cooler (a 25 row big boi) and lines are above the sump. I also remembered how I always check the oil overnight, after the car has sat.

So as soon as I was starting the car, that oil cooler and lines would get re-filled again with oil from the sump, not exactly leaving enough in the f**king car.

I went back to pick up car from mechanic and dumped a few liters into it and mysterious sound is now gone… and my oil pressure is a much healthier 3.5 bar at idle and moves according to RPM. That was a relief, to say the least.

Still haven’t given  it a lot of RPM, as need to do my 1000km to get that gearbox all run in.

[Kinkstaah]

So I also got my custom swaybar from Hakon in the end! I say "in the end" but they were actually great and delivered it entirely on time with the timeframe they initially quoted.

And not to mention, it is exactly what I ordered and actually fits fine. It was a joy to actually bolt up and find out that it clears everything and fits fine and I enjoyed taking extra time to nut it all up correctly and all that wholesome jazz.

Also was playing jazz at the time.

 

Plenty of clearance now!

As to how it drives, it is marginally better, a little less roll and a sensation of the left and right suspension being linked, you know, like with some bar or something. But it's actually remarkably minor. I'm sure it attests to something, but what I'm not entirely sure.

Given the stock swaybars felt fine on the road but were woeful when the car was really pushed I'm sure it will be more evident at some future track day. I'm at least happier that if I hit a kerb at the track at speed that the suspension is actually connected to the other side of the car.

The car went back to Von Brothers to replace the temporary Optima battery they left me with (which also had munted/cracked posts) and to get my flexible dipstick re-attached, given it was just flopping around in the engine bay and it was fixed up when the car was there

I was wise not to just take the bracket home because it took quite a few painful, fireglassy hours to actually fit.

Also a Bursons man appeared and delivered a battery because the one that had arrived could not be found. I also found that the optima battery left my battery tray looking like this....

After some ... liberal.. cleaning and a ton of rust converter it wasn't so bad.

The next step was to address this overheating-while-idle scenario. As mentioned in threads not mine, I was a bit dismayed to realise that the AC condenser of a Commodore is actually larger than mine is. So the concept that I had that the condenser was too big in general, was thrown out...

Ceremonial all plastics off (and thinking to actually refit them, and oh boy that long term power steering leak is evidenced on the undertray)

Coolant and thermostat (and a bung for my IAT sensor that kept falling out as teh hole was just slightly too big). Pic on the right is the coolant that came _out_ which wasn't quite as new looking as the coolant that went in, a bit watery and yellow, really.

This is the photo I did at the end, but you can't really see that the condenser is actually angled forward as the black brackets that hold it on are very spaced out now, giving a good 100mm+ between the condenser and radiator at the top. You can easily fit a hand back there and move it around between the condenser and rad (or sit it easily in the middle and touch neither). I made little 'triangles' out of the guard liner to just block up those gaps beside the radiator. I'm not exactly hoping for miracles here as I've seen that without a vented bonnet, ducting to the radiator doesn't seem to have any real benefits going by the many many threads on the subject. Air flow isn't dependent on air being funnelled in, it has to be able to get out as well.

Because I am also a noob I raised the rear of my bonnet up with some spacers too. Yes I know that on track I will be creating a high pressure zone at the base of the windshield to push air back in, but my issue is at 0kmh, at idle only, with fans on. So I'm giving up 'moving' airflow for 'idle' airflow to release trapped heat. Like the ghettoest version of a vented bonnet.

It also turns out my current thermostat was opening fine, did the whole boil it in a pot of water to see it open trick, and it looks to open more than the high flow replacement I bought but didn't use. Also has a clear 82C marking on it, so now I know when it opens.

This was the result of driving around for about 30 minutes/1hr running errands yesterday in 33c heat, going to bunnings, getting petrol, going to chemist warehouse, driving home etc.

The three gauges at the top are Engine oil temp, AFR, Engine coolant, and the head unit is displaying IAT, Coolant Temp (as reported by ECU/ECU's sensor in the head). The shifter surround is out because I was buying a battery for something under there 😛

I did notice when it would overheat that coolant was following oil temp (well into the 110's for both) and this SEEMED to be an improvement given coolant as reported by the engine was only 84, given the Thermo opens at 82 I think this is definitely better. You can see from the IAT being 68C, and getting up to 75C from my non falling out IAT just how hot the engine bay is. I later did check it and my pod filter feels about as hot as the god damned top radiator tank after said drive.

It is also worth noting that the Commodore fans operate from the factory at like 105 and 113C. I've set mine to come on much earlier than that, so I don't think I've done any damage by getting to 105C as a hard max limit in the past.

In short, it appears that everything is actually working. The gearbox is run in and I changed the oil too, and all went perfectly. I ADVISE EVERYONE READING THIS TO BUY A $10 SCA BATTERY OPERATED FLUID TRANSFER PUMP

As this was so beautiful to fill gearbox oil with I got upset I hadn't bought one earlier, and I'm sure there's many other powered alternatives. Put one end in your fluid of choice, and the other end in where you want to go. Can be used for coolant, oils etc. Never use a hand pump again for Gearbox or diff oil, never have to lift a jerry can ever again, just put one end in and the other end in the filler, etc.

Does 5.5L/min. Get something if you haven't already.

 

I even actually semi spiritedly drove the car, with its run in gearbox, some (semi) revs and some (semi) street speed in curvy mountains. It is really bliss with the soundtrack, swaybars, light steering, nothing scrubbing, nothing overheating and my god the gearbox and clutch are awesome. It is seriously the most enjoyable thing to actually drive, and I re-iterate I have no car envy for anything else I've ever driven, GTR's aint got nothing on this lol.
 

My next "to do" item is now down to "fit that bodykit" which given as this is a $10K adventure probably won't be happening any time int he next year, and I'm sure something will break in that time 😛

 

[GTSBoy]

On 12/14/2021 at 9:26 AM, Kinkstaah said:

if I hit a kerb at the track at speed that the suspension is actually connected to the other side of the car

This is actually the time when you don't want them linked. The big disturbance on the kerb side gets transferred to the other wheel, lifting the body on that side too. Without an ARB, the spring absorbs all* the impact of the kerb lifting the wheel and keeps the disturbance to that corner of the car.

*Granted, it might not absorb all of it because you might bottom the suspension, but not important, except inasmuch as the ARB might prevent the bottoming by moving some of the load input to the other side.

[Kinkstaah]

On 12/14/2021 at 5:48 PM, GTSBoy said:

This is actually the time when you don't want them linked. The big disturbance on the kerb side gets transferred to the other wheel, lifting the body on that side too. Without an ARB, the spring absorbs all* the impact of the kerb lifting the wheel and keeps the disturbance to that corner of the car.

*Granted, it might not absorb all of it because you might bottom the suspension, but not important, except inasmuch as the ARB might prevent the bottoming by moving some of the load input to the other side.

I did notice this, with the front unlinked it was actually very informative as to when weight was on say, the front left and you really could feel that side loading up, and then under acceleration you could feel the movement of the weight switch over to the rear. Part of me did think "This is actually considerably more informative than having a sway bar there, you get more info as to what is going on"

Then the part of me took over is that I am perhaps sensing the actual car twisting and that wouldn't be good if multiplied by a lot on a track, if I could feel it at a mediumly spirited roundabout.

Given noone ever does this, I figured it would be wise to at least have *a* sway bar on the car, and avoid some Gregism by tearing the strut towers apart from one another or some wacky stuff.

It still suprises me how little the FSB effect actually is, and the RSB does 95% of the heavy lifting in regards to chassis balance, at least in my car! Night and day on the rear, and can barely notice (Noone would notice unless they were specifically looking or testing this) if the FSB is stock, completely absent, or thoroughly upgraded.

[The Bogan]

Excellent outcome

I'm sure the thing is a blast

[No Crust Racing]

On 12/14/2021 at 8:23 PM, Kinkstaah said:

I did notice this, with the front unlinked it was actually very informative as to when weight was on say, the front left and you really could feel that side loading up, and then under acceleration you could feel the movement of the weight switch over to the rear. Part of me did think "This is actually considerably more informative than having a sway bar there, you get more info as to what is going on"

Then the part of me took over is that I am perhaps sensing the actual car twisting and that wouldn't be good if multiplied by a lot on a track, if I could feel it at a mediumly spirited roundabout.

Given noone ever does this, I figured it would be wise to at least have *a* sway bar on the car, and avoid some Gregism by tearing the strut towers apart from one another or some wacky stuff.

It still suprises me how little the FSB effect actually is, and the RSB does 95% of the heavy lifting in regards to chassis balance, at least in my car! Night and day on the rear, and can barely notice (Noone would notice unless they were specifically looking or testing this) if the FSB is stock, completely absent, or thoroughly upgraded.

This. 

It is transferring loads to points not designed to take it for sustained periods of time, even if you cannot feel them in the steering wheel/pedals/seat etc. 

Glad you got it sorted.