Barra swap R32 plan

[Kai.exe]

49 minutes ago, DaymoR32 said:

 

 

 

Thanks for the links, cheers! I really wish they filmed a series of the entire process of that engine swap lol

[DaymoR32]

all good mate, just thought id chip in and show it can be done and nicely too! good luck with it all mate, put up a build thread to so we can follow progress!

[GTSBoy]

35 minutes ago, Kai.exe said:

Hey man, that's one of the reasons why I was trying to figure out how many KG does a Barra bare long block weigh, if it's true that it's lighter than an RB or a JZ, then great! If its heavier, I'd be doing stuff like adding weight to the back of the car to balance it out. 

It's not lighter, it's definitely heavier. The RB is already a heavy arse lump. Adding more weight to the front of a Skyline is daft. Adding weight to back to "balance it out" afterwards is just daft on top of daft.

Just have a look at the head on a Barra compared to ab RB head. It's literally twice the size. There'd have to be twice as much metal in it.

I don't dislike the Barra. I just think it's the wrong choice for a Skyline, particularly an R32.

As to Mad Mike. There is no sense in using rotary people as an example of what constitutes a good idea. Ask any of them and they will all freely tell you that they are f**ked in the head, irretrievably damaged, etc etc.

[Kai.exe]

19 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

It's not lighter, it's definitely heavier. The RB is already a heavy arse lump. Adding more weight to the front of a Skyline is daft. Adding weight to back to "balance it out" afterwards is just daft on top of daft.

Just have a look at the head on a Barra compared to ab RB head. It's literally twice the size. There'd have to be twice as much metal in it.

I don't dislike the Barra. I just think it's the wrong choice for a Skyline, particularly an R32.

As to Mad Mike. There is no sense in using rotary people as an example of what constitutes a good idea. Ask any of them and they will all freely tell you that they are f**ked in the head, irretrievably damaged, etc etc.

There are still some big question marks about this topic, further investigations and researches is needed for a solid answer. 

For example, Motive DVD on youtube did a weight testing in one of their videos and it shows it is wrong when people think 2J blocks should be heavier than an RB30 block due to the 2J having thicker cylinder walls and also stronger overall everything, yet a 2J block is actually about 10 kg lighter than a RB30 block.

That's why you can't really say that a Barra must be heavier than RB for sure just because it looks big, without physical evidence from measuring it. Which I am surprised no one has ever done that and shown the internet with proof.

All and all lets wait until someone provides us with physical evidence of the engine weight. If I am in Australia or NZ right now I'd go ahead and buy a Barra long block and measure it on a scale myself but sadly that's not the case, we need the internet's help.

[GTSBoy]

I hate to tell you this, but the dressed weights of all these engines have been posted on the internet many times. You just need to look harder. And no. I'm not going to do it for you.

[Kai.exe]

2 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

I hate to tell you this, but the dressed weights of all these engines have been posted on the internet many times. You just need to look harder. And no. I'm not going to do it for you.

I'm not asking specifically YOU to do the test for me. Someone with a good heart on the internet will. 

[robbo_rb180]

8 minutes ago, Kai.exe said:

I'm not asking specifically YOU to do the test for me. Someone with a good heart on the internet will. 

how about heading down to your local wreckers and asking them to weigh an engine for you........... 
Heres an idea- buy the rb factory mounts, an engine & drop it in. Its what about $700- 800 to do which is nothing in the scheme of things in regard to engine conversions. Will then tell you everything,if r32 were cheap (Sub $1000 where they should be) I would do it as I am bored of all this talk. BUY engine and get on with it!
 

[Kinkstaah]

It also kinda... doesn't matter?

It is what it is, its more of a curiosity if anything. The reason the flak gets thrown is quite often you see grand ideas never eventuate and people grow tired of threads that don't go anywhere, written by people who were never going to actually do the thing they claimed they were going to do. Oft referred to as 'school holidays' type of things.

The videos of the Barra R32 are worth watching if only for the very end where they show some in-car footage, and the experience of attempting to drive it around looks... hmmmm... shit.

If you are going to spend 100,000+ on a car, which that R32 likely owes someone.... I mean buy something else. It'd at least be drivable ?

[Kai.exe]

5 minutes ago, robbo_rb180 said:

how about heading down to your local wreckers and asking them to weigh an engine for you........... 
Heres an idea- buy the rb factory mounts, an engine & drop it in. Its what about $700- 800 to do which is nothing in the scheme of things in regard to engine conversions. Will then tell you everything,if r32 were cheap (Sub $1000 where they should be) I would do it as I am bored of all this talk. BUY engine and get on with it!
 

I'm trying my best to be civil but I sense a lot of passive aggressiveness in most of the replies under this post.

There is nothing wrong with learning stuff before hand. That's the whole point of this thread I posted, on top of that please read what I said, I'm not physically in Straya just yet, that's why I was doing researches before hand, and given the answers from some forums are not solid about the engine's weight that is the entire reason why I asked about the weight of the engine on this post. 

Being passive aggressive while replying to a post online doesn't do anyone any favor. If I am physically in straya right now I would be contacting the local shops by now already.

[Kai.exe]

2 minutes ago, Kinkstaah said:

It also kinda... doesn't matter?

It is what it is, its more of a curiosity if anything. The reason the flak gets thrown is quite often you see grand ideas never eventuate and people grow tired of threads that don't go anywhere, written by people who were never going to actually do the thing they claimed they were going to do. Oft referred to as 'school holidays' type of things.

The videos of the Barra R32 are worth watching if only for the very end where they show some in-car footage, and the experience of attempting to drive it around looks... hmmmm... shit.

If you are going to spend 100,000+ on a car, which that R32 likely owes someone.... I mean buy something else. It'd at least be drivable ?

hey good sir, being a bit egotistical here just because you know a thing or two? that is not a good attitude towards people no matter if you're an elder or not. 

If people are tired of posts of this sort, they can simply ignore the post instead of causing a mess and turn the comment section into a war zone, you guys are equivalent to the griefers in online video games that does things to sabotage other people's game play experience without gaining any bit of benefit from it.

learn to ignore things you don't like.

[BK]

Hi there mate. I know the idea of a Barra in a 32 sounds on paper like a really good idea, but I think the reality will not equal your expectations. I love the idea - in theory. Would I ever do it - hell no ! Everything that everyone else has posted have brought up very valid points which you seem to not really be interested in taking on board.

I personally love the Barra ( as most people in this forum do too) and have one with the ZF 6 speed. Have you ever driven an XR6 ? I would suggest doing that before deciding that an 32 with one would be better. The FG is a pretty decent car.

One question, are you absolutely dead set on doing it, or are you just floating the idea around ?

[Kinkstaah]

1 minute ago, Kai.exe said:

hey good sir, being a bit egotistical here just because you know a thing or two? that is not a good attitude towards people no matter if you're an elder or not. 

If people are tired of posts of this sort, they can simply ignore the post instead of causing a mess and turn the comment section into a war zone, you guys are equivalent to the griefers in online video games that does things to sabotage other people's game play experience without gaining any bit of benefit from it.

learn to ignore things you don't like.

I'm not being egotistical at all, I (and others here) are actually trying to help, but some do find amusement in ideas that never come to fruition, and your post (not in Australia, no work done, trying to get info instead of doing it, mention of low budget) are all indicators of something seen many times before.

All you're saying is you want information as to clearances, things to look out for, information people who have done swaps wish they had known before, etc. What you're actually getting is that information.

The information is: This is an ill thought out, poor decision that will end in expensive tears and probably won't be worth it. Nothing will fit, and it require extreme skill to pull off, extreme skill to the point where if you had that skill, you would not be asking these types of questions.

You came here wanting information, you've got it - you just don't like it. That doesn't necessarily make the information given incorrect.

Even if you did make it, and had a 850whp clean example, it is clearly undrivable, the chassis won't put that much power down. Could you make a really torquey 300-350kw making like 7 psi? Sure.  Is the amount of work worth it for the level of power that a R32 RWD chassis can realistically support? NO.

That car looks like it cost 100K to build..... the current owner talks about how he, the fab shop, bought the car off the customer who couldn't afford to finish it... to which I and probably quite a few people watching that part of the video would have gone 'lolz, typical' because it is typical.

Last track day I went to had two BF or FG's handing everyone's asses to them as they blasted around with sequential gearboxes and big power, the big heavy falcons and mustangs and commodores don't actually handle as bad as people may lead you to believe if you put effort in to that side of thing, which is much easier.

I have a LS in my skyline. If it exploded and the money fell back into my pocket I would likely use that cash to buy a Mustang.

[GTSBoy]

17 minutes ago, Kinkstaah said:

If it exploded and the money fell back into my pocket I would likely use that cash to buy a Mustang.

[Kai.exe]

3 minutes ago, Kinkstaah said:

I'm not being egotistical at all, I (and others here) are actually trying to help, but some do find amusement in ideas that never come to fruition, and your post (not in Australia, no work done, trying to get info instead of doing it, mention of low budget) are all indicators of something seen many times before.

All you're saying is you want information as to clearances, things to look out for, information people who have done swaps wish they had known before, etc. What you're actually getting is that information.

The information is: This is an ill thought out, poor decision that will end in expensive tears and probably won't be worth it. Nothing will fit, and it require extreme skill to pull off, extreme skill to the point where if you had that skill, you would not be asking these types of questions.

You came here wanting information, you've got it - you just don't like it. That doesn't necessarily make the information given incorrect.

Even if you did make it, and had a 850whp clean example, it is clearly undrivable, the chassis won't put that much power down. Could you make a really torquey 300-350kw making like 7 psi? Sure.  Is the amount of work worth it for the level of power that a R32 RWD chassis can realistically support? NO.

That car looks like it cost 100K to build..... the current owner talks about how he, the fab shop, bought the car off the customer who couldn't afford to finish it... to which I and probably quite a few people watching that part of the video would have gone 'lolz, typical' because it is typical.

Last track day I went to had two BF or FG's handing everyone's asses to them as they blasted around with sequential gearboxes and big power, the big heavy falcons and mustangs and commodores don't actually handle as bad as people may lead you to believe if you put effort in to that side of thing, which is much easier.

I have a LS in my skyline. If it exploded and the money fell back into my pocket I would likely use that cash to buy a Mustang.

The reason that example in the video looks like a very expensive build is because he had that fully built internal Barra instead of just using a dead stocker, that alone will cost at least 20k with the fuel system and things along those lines, on top of that he fully repainted the car, fully refreshed the interiors and things along those lines, which is none of my concern because I will only be addressing valve springs and oil pump gears and make it 400kw, finish the swap and call it a day. 

Also assuming someone won't do the project just because YOU think it is typical, that is just your subjective view, objectively I will be in Straya in a couple months and start contacting shops about the plans and all, most of the comments here, including yours, are subjectively trying to express how much you dislike the project just because you subjectively think it doesn't make sense.

By trying to convince me to get the vehicles that came with a Barra in it instead of swapping a Barra into an R32 is most definitely defeating the purpose of this post and which you're basically talking to a wall. And by giving out off topic opinions does not equal to what you call providing "information", and doesn't make it correct. 

For example :  question: "hey I want to 2J swap a skyline what should I be looking into?"  reply: "Why don't you just buy a Supra instead?"   <<<< that, is not giving out information, it is just expressing an off topic opinion that no one asked. 

But hey, after all if your intention is to turn this post comment section into a war zone, you've definitely won. Because at this moment there are way more negative talks than the actual answers that actually helps regarding to this topic.

[Kai.exe]

26 minutes ago, BK said:

One question, are you absolutely dead set on doing it, or are you just floating the idea around ?

The only reason why I am still not quite sure about it just yet is the unknown engine weight for the Barra,  on multiple forums some say the naked long block is 195kg some say 250kg some say 300kg, nobody has actually measured it's weight on a scale to find out exactly how many kilos does this thing weigh, which is absurd, I asked one of my mates who is about to swap a Barra in his old mustang, he agreed to measure it on a scale once he gets the engine. And we'll see from there. 

The one thing that's turning this comment section into a war zone is those people's egos as you've probably already seen, which is never a pleasant experience. 

[Ben C34]

Out of curiosity is the r32 you are taking about putting the barra into already in Australia already or do you also need to buy one?

I just want to figure out how long I need to wait for the build thread where the action happen

And another one, are you an Aussie? Only reason I ask is in my experience Aussies can handle a little flak, and wanted to see if my wild assumptions are correct. Can people even fly into Australia at the moment?

 

[GTSBoy]

Objectively, swapping any other twin cam straight 6 into an R chassis Nissan, other than an RB is a bizarre thing to do. A 2JZ makes no sense when you can make a near equivalent RB3025/6. (I briefly considered it before doing my engine conversion on my 32). The JZ engines have the inlet and exhaust on the wrong sides, which just make fitting shit in with the steering etc in the engine bay that much more of a pain. Barra is the same wrong-handedness. It is too tall for the 32 engine bay, which requires shitty things to be done to jam it in.

Put in a V6? Sure, there are plenty of reasons to accept the pain of such a conversion. Shorter, lighter all alloy engine bringing the weight back behind the crossmember? I'd be all over that like a fat kid on a mars bar. There are even RWD Nissan options, as horrible as I think the VQs are.

Put in a V8? Yup, ditto for the Gen3 (or the bigger ones if you can sneak them in past the authorities). Nissan RWD V8 options exist too, and there's quite a bit possible for making them stronger now too. Can you imagine the amazeballs you would trigger if you put a Chrysler Hemi V8 in?

Almost any of those ideas would not trigger the immediate negative reaction of asking about putting a Barra in. Because they have results which would justify the work, not just a brute force and ignorance taxi motor.

 

[BK]

195kg seems to be the long motor consensus from Ford mods. Make no mistake, they are definitely heavier than an RB26, and they are pretty weighty. How much, dunno. We pulled the old man's Barra and Tremec Tr6060 box out of his XR6 FG last year, the motors are fricken huge, but the engine bay in an FG is also massive. I'd hate to work on one in a skyline. The backward intake and exhaust is a big one for not doing it.

[robbo_rb180]

1 minute ago, Kai.exe said:

The only reason why I am still not quite sure about it just yet is the unknown engine weight for the Barra,  on multiple forums some say the naked long block is 195kg some say 250kg some say 300kg, nobody has actually measured it's weight on a scale to find out exactly how many kilos does this thing weigh, which is absurd, I asked one of my mates who is about to swap a Barra in his old mustang, he agreed to measure it on a scale once he gets the engine. And we'll see from there. 

The one thing that's turning this comment section into a war zone is those people's egos as you've probably already seen, which is never a pleasant experience. 

Well wait for your mate to come through with the info then if your not willing to take the time to actually go and physically do anything yourself.  If you were serious about building an r32 with front end weight in mind you would be looking at aluminium blocked 4 cyl or 6 cyl motors ( honda seem to be flavour of the youtubes atm). 
There is a lot of good points & information being given but you are obviously not willing to consider it. Having been involved in a lot projects with engine swaps there is many variables are that cannot be seen until you have an engine in the car and start getting on with it.
You are obviously wanting a cheap bolt in solution as you have seen people do it with other swaps that are very popular and been done for over 10 years with a lot of aftermarket support. Barra into r chassis is not one of them due to a lot of the issues mentioned above. From your earlier posts you want reliability but I've seen plenty of barra failures too even built motors from workshops who are "specialists".
No one here has used you as a punching bag- if the advice here has hurt your feelings, return to your safe space & log off the interwebs.

And one major thing to add... This thread is nothing like a warzone talking from boots on the ground experience.

[Kai.exe]

7 minutes ago, Ben C34 said:

Out of curiosity is the r32 you are taking about putting the barra into already in Australia already or do you also need to buy one?

I just want to figure out how long I need to wait for the build thread where the action happen

And another one, are you an Aussie? Only reason I ask is in my experience Aussies can handle a little flak, and wanted to see if my wild assumptions are correct. Can people even fly into Australia at the moment?

 

Hey man look, at this point you're just being the annoying kid in the class that nobody likes, I do own a R32 and Im shipping it to Aus, and yes people can still fly into Aus no problem, and people with any nationality would be annoyed by you thats no doubt. And about this topic, consider it none of your business anymore, I can start or delay it whenever I want, none of your concern because you're downright being a dkhead with passive aggressive attitude towards me for no reason since the beginning, you're just salty that the Admin deleted your sh1t talk comments, keep being that way.