Daily Driving the billet engine

[BK]

Nothing "wrong" with it if you require it for your purpose, like actual motorsport. The original point was about billet blocks being like sequentials following the "image of cool" nowdays. Nice to have, but hardly necessary for non motorsport street cars.

Which is back to the original question of why the OP feels he requires a billet over cast block.

[niZmO_Man]

Looking forward to a flood in the wreckers' market for sequentials in 10-15 years

[Piggaz]

1 hour ago, niZmO_Man said:

Looking forward to a flood in the wreckers' market for sequentials in 10-15 years

When every dope puts an auto in their gtr to make it a 4WD VL?

[GTSBoy]

10 minutes ago, Piggaz said:

When every dope puts an auto in their gtr to make it a 4WD VL?

No I suspect when the GTRs surrounding the sequentials (that get transplanted in in the coming sequential craze) get drifted into roadside furniture.

[joshuaho96]

Now that we've derailed this thread about billet blocks, does anyone know if the PPG or stock ratios are better for the stock 5 speed in the R32/R33 GTRs? I'm looking for a synchro transmission and I don't think I can afford the expense of doing a V160 swap properly.

[kaboobie]

8 hours ago, BK said:

I know billet blocks are good for rigidity when making massive power, but I was asking specifically the OP why he feels he needs / wants a billet block. Does he want 2000hp or just bragging rights ? Plenty of big power RBs not using them and new RB26 blocks are pretty affordable.

Hi there, I've been using the current engine for 5 years now. It's running fine and doesn't give me any trouble. I use it as a DD as well as tracking it 5-6 times a year. It's running E20 and is making 700hp on twin 6258 EFRs. The HKS 2.8 kit hasn't give me any problem and currently it is running fine. I feel time is approaching for a replacement block so why not go for a bit of an upgrade. While the limitation of the HP is not the block right now, it is the fuel I use, beside I don't need anymore HP, it is plenty fast, but I want the same reliability and maybe a bit more boost doesn't hurt :-).  The current RB engine are quite expensive now so I don't mind spending a bit more to get a lighter and stronger engine but if it comes with compromising the reliability or heat issue I'm not going to buy it and so far I haven't really got a straight answer from the shops so I'm asking the owner/s who had bought one if my concern is ligitimate or not. 

Thanks

Tobey

[kaboobie]

 

[kaboobie]

Let me explain a bit more of the weather condition in my country. It gets to 40+ Celsius for 1-2 months a year and I get stuck in traffic sometimes 30 minutes to one hour.  There are many cars on the road and you can't really drive to dissipate heat like in the VDO above. It's also quite humid. 

I heard in the VDO at 2:55 that the engine runs at 83 degree. Let's say the temperature in NSW on the day of filming is around 25C, seeing they open the window it might be cooler, but if your add 10 degrees to that, with the condition coolant will be at 93 degree. For me, for a car running around with wind blowing that temperature is pretty high. I haven't considered the fact that the hotter the temperature the harder it is to dissipate heat and I haven't even added traffic and heat of other cars to the equation because when in traffic that is when it heats up very fast. 

I guess I found my answer but to be fair it does also depends on how the ventilation of the car is set up.

I'm not here to bash the billet block. I genuinely want one but I have to play a role of skeptic here.  

[BK]

I vote no to change your block.

Why fix what's not broken ?

[GTSBoy]

Also, that's not how cooling systems work.

Radiators, fans, thermostats.

[PLYNX]

Had a quick read of this post and might of missed it but . . . . whats the weight saving from complete iron block vs alloy billet please ?

[BK]

Cast iron RB bare blocks are somewhere around 70 -75kg and a billet aluminium block is roughly about half that.

[joshuaho96]

17 hours ago, kaboobie said:

Let me explain a bit more of the weather condition in my country. It gets to 40+ Celsius for 1-2 months a year and I get stuck in traffic sometimes 30 minutes to one hour.  There are many cars on the road and you can't really drive to dissipate heat like in the VDO above. It's also quite humid. 

I heard in the VDO at 2:55 that the engine runs at 83 degree. Let's say the temperature in NSW on the day of filming is around 25C, seeing they open the window it might be cooler, but if your add 10 degrees to that, with the condition coolant will be at 93 degree. For me, for a car running around with wind blowing that temperature is pretty high. I haven't considered the fact that the hotter the temperature the harder it is to dissipate heat and I haven't even added traffic and heat of other cars to the equation because when in traffic that is when it heats up very fast. 

I guess I found my answer but to be fair it does also depends on how the ventilation of the car is set up.

I'm not here to bash the billet block. I genuinely want one but I have to play a role of skeptic here.  

The question is really more why do you want a billet block? They're designed for 1200+ hp builds. The liners are extremely thick and the water jacket doesn't do as much as it does in the stock block which is a closed deck that reduces coolant flow.

You should really consider what this car is going to be used for. If it's going to be idling in traffic all day that means keep the power relatively low to reduce cooling load on the engine, keep the OEM water pump, big radiator, stock clutch fan with fan shroud, proper radiator ducting. All of those requirements point towards either OEM or N1 block. It would be cool to have some billet aluminum block tailored for say 600 whp max as a "street oriented" block but the people willing to put down 10-13k USD on a billet block usually want big power, not just removing ~30 kg from the front of the car.

[kaboobie]

9 minutes ago, joshuaho96 said:

The question is really more why do you want a billet block? They're designed for 1200+ hp builds. The liners are extremely thick and the water jacket doesn't do as much as it does in the stock block which is a closed deck that reduces coolant flow.

You should really consider what this car is going to be used for. If it's going to be idling in traffic all day that means keep the power relatively low to reduce cooling load on the engine, keep the OEM water pump, big radiator, stock clutch fan with fan shroud, proper radiator ducting. All of those requirements point towards either OEM or N1 block. It would be cool to have some billet aluminum block tailored for say 600 whp max as a "street oriented" block but the people willing to put down 10-13k USD on a billet block usually want big power, not just removing ~30 kg from the front of the car.

Thanks for the response. I do half track half street driving on this car. For street you can't really avoid congestions in the heart of Bangkok. As for cooling, I still have the clutch fan, an oil cooler with a small fan, HPI 3 way radiator with the biggest cfm fan out there, as well as an extra small coolant cooler with fan. The airflow has also be designed to get ride of the heat while driving. The car is cool right now. I figure I can take on a bit more heat while removing the weight off the car as there is nothing else that I can do to improve the car within the limit that I want it to be. The weight should improve the handling of the car some what but I'm not willing to sacrifice the reliability issue for it. 

You are right that people are not willing to put down that much money for just weight reduction, as a replacement to a stock streetable block. As the stock block continue to go up in value, if these shop advertize that billet block is replaceable to the stock block it should have better cooling than the stock block and have other better design features, which when I asked they refused to do it. 

[BK]

3 hours ago, kaboobie said:

As the stock block continue to go up in value

umm, no they are not going up in value. Brand new RB26 05U blocks are about $3500AU. They've been about that since as long as I can remember. That's a big difference in price to a Bullet billet RB26 block at around $14000AU (Not $13kUSD - don't know where that came from).

[Stixbnr32]

Yeah huge cost and for what - why not just use a PRP Block brace and machine a new block?

i feel for your street car with odd track day you will keep block twist to a minimum and save a tone of cash in the process and could still throw a few extra PSI at it.

[WantGTR]

On 02/12/2020 at 9:35 AM, Kinkstaah said:

Do not underestimate the hardpark instagram peer pressure. It is very real.

Fully this. Technology/development has come such a long way in the last few years. Making '1000hp' is much easier than it used to be. Fact is people expect a lot from built engines and they are pushed to the limit. Guess what, they break. They all do. After you have sunk 30k, 40k, 50k (and the rest) and you have a failure, it all becomes very hush hush. People only see the timeslip and ridiculous MPH and think wow. what a street car, when in fact they have lunched multiple engines to get there or have spent another fortune chasing that tenth.

Any of these high powered cars are very much not street cars despite what people portray on so social media. Driving it to work once then doing highway pulls on the odd saturday night does not make it a street car. It's a race car with rego plates. If a highway patrol pulled you over, youd be f**ked. 

Get a billet block, fill it with expensive gear and send 70psi through it. Please tell us how it goes.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Why do Australians love to talk in HP when for everything else we use the metric system?

Remember when NASA lost a spaceship because some fk tards at Lockheed Martin decided to send calculations in imperial shit?

Space vacuum = 0 kPA
Earth = 100 kPA
Sick RB = 400kPA

It's like when American morons tell you water boils at 212 degrees, just sound so stupid, water freezes at 0 degrees C and boils at 100 degrees C - so logical.

HP is like measuring your dick from your arsehole.

 

[2pee]

Horsies are more powerful than killer wasps naturally!

Old mate should go for an investment cast block as per proper practice, ha. There's that many donkeys with cnc mills turning out engines with superfluous casting features carried over and a few with poor alignments, I would be hesitant to lay hard currency down.

A pet hate is the use of billet in the automotive world, but that's a losing battle, might as well call it, dumb cee you next Tuesday, aerospace grade.☺️

Edited December 3, 2020 by 2pee

[PLYNX]

17 minutes ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

HP is like measuring your dick from your arsehole.

Now that is GOLD Johnny !

Ive just laughed so hard I wizzed myself !

Are you gonna yell at me if I mention the Europeans use PS as a measurement of engine power as well ? ? ?

But seriously for the amount of cash that you would throw out there Id rather try and pull weight out of the car and look at carbon fiber doors, super light weight wheels and light weight seats to save 30-40 kgs and end up with change !