RB26 GTR Engine Numbers

[nastylilweed]

Hey Everyone, 

I'm currently looking at buying an R32 GTR V-Spec II and want to do some research on all GTR Engine Numbers but in particular late model R32 (1994). 

Can anyone help me confirm that RB26066570A was an engine fitted to late model R32 GTR or at least manufactured in or prior to 1994? 

If we can't do that then what year model and engine number is in your GTR (R32, R33, R34)? 

Cheers, 

Joe

[SteveL]

Engines would have been produced sequentially like the chassis, so low numbers probably = earlier.    Nissan FAST doesn't identify particular engine numbers with specific cars, so likely engines were installed as they were available/needed.    Some motorcycle manufacturers use(d) matching engine/frame numbers (I have a couple like that) but it doesn't seem to happen with mass production cars AFAIA, probably to simplify production.    Maybe with a Ferrari.    Anyway, if it helps my Sept '89 chassis number 1650 came (I believe) with the original engine 002910A.

[nastylilweed]

Thanks SteveL, 

Aware of the majority of those things. My concern primarily is that I want the car as an investment / toy and my suspicion is that the engine number suggests that it's far later than the 1994 GTRs. If I'm going to lash out and spend $100k on a V-Spec I want to know that it has an engine that is from the right era. 

I've found that the R32 GTR V-Specs should have an engine number between RB26-042XXXX - RB26-045XXXX. I don't however believe everything I read on the interwebs so want to verify that this logic holds. (This logic is the same as yours SteveL)

(Reference: https://classicregister.com/id-guides/info-guide-1994-nissan-skyline-r32-gtr-v-spec-ii)

From the segmented (potentially incorrect) information I've found that; 

Early R32: RB26000XXXX to RB26002XXXX 

Mid R32: RB26003XXXX (V-Spec I RB26-03XXXXX - Reference Classic Register)

Late R32: RB26004XXXX (V-Spec II RB26-042XXXX - RB26-045XXXX - Reference Classic Register)

Early R33: RB26005XXXX

Mid R33: RB26006XXXX (as per the engine in this R32 V-Spec II, which is what I'm concerned about from legitimacy perspective)

Late R33:  RB26007XXXX

Early R34 (2000+):  RB26008XXXX

 

The list above has been compiled from a bunch of different forum posts on engine numbers and hours of internet searching on my end. The production numbers and years etc seem to line up with the numbers I've documented above.

Note these are completely non-definitive and only based on forum posts and information I've gathered - I would like to verify this so I can make an informed decision!

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by nastylilweed

[GTSBoy]

As opposed to every other GTR owner over the last 20 years who was looking to deliberately put a later RB26 in because they were better.

[SteveL]

Mine's fine, but thanks for the concern.

[nastylilweed]

39 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

As opposed to every other GTR owner over the last 20 years who was looking to deliberately put a later RB26 in because they were better.

Yes exactly, however from an originality perspective and as an investment perspective it becomes a pretty big issue. Unfortunately there's a perception in the market that "matching" numbers cars are still highly preferable. Even if there was never a link between chassis / engine having an engine that was "period correct" is the equivalent. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by nastylilweed

[GTSBoy]

I don't subscribe to that bullshit. But if you want to, go right ahead.

[nastylilweed]

32 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

I don't subscribe to that bullshit. But if you want to, go right ahead.

I wish I didn't have to buy into it however it's naive to think that a collectible car with an engine from the wrong era will be worth as much as the same car with the right engine. Globally, that's just how investment cars work. 

Remember the context here. I've already got my toys, I'm looking for an awesome car that I can enjoy occasionally that will appreciate significantly over time. In order for me to spend that much on a car that won't see a lot of use it needs to appreciate over time. From an investment perspective why would I buy a car that I KNOW will perform poorly compared to an alternative?

It's the hard truth. I'm just here to do some research on a specific engine... 

[SteveL]

3 hours ago, nastylilweed said:

It's the hard truth. I'm just here to do some research on a specific engine... 

Buy what you want to buy if you can find it and ignore that other 'bullshit'.     

[BK]

16 hours ago, nastylilweed said:

I wish I didn't have to buy into it however it's naive to think that a collectible car with an engine from the wrong era will be worth as much as the same car with the right engine. Globally, that's just how investment cars work. 

Remember the context here. I've already got my toys, I'm looking for an awesome car that I can enjoy occasionally that will appreciate significantly over time. In order for me to spend that much on a car that won't see a lot of use it needs to appreciate over time. From an investment perspective why would I buy a car that I KNOW will perform poorly compared to an alternative?

It's the hard truth. I'm just here to do some research on a specific engine... 

So you're buying this as an investment ? If there is no concrete evidence how would you ever prove original motor authenticity to a potential buyer ?

Anyway for your information I can give you some numbers on our GTRs for further info:

10/1989 BNR32-002605, definitely original block was : RB26003940A. Since replaced with new block RB26D090076P.

09/1990 BNR32-011875 : 99% sure original block RB26014217A.

02/1995 BCNR33-002155 : I'll bet my left nut original block as I bought this car completely standard and immaculte with 62000km on it over 18 years ago : RB26050092A.

Our latest edition 11/1989 BNR32-003217 with block RB26062552A. This car has been changed from KH2 to 326 and is the only one I'll guarantee has had another engine fitted before I got it.

I have to say suprisingly it does correspond so far with your above findings.

[nastylilweed]

Thanks BK, 

Yes, would definitely be buying it as an "investment". It's a pretty loose term these days. I honestly believe the V-Spec IIs are going to be worth pretty big money one day. But I also want a car I can enjoy on a semi-regular basis as well so it's not all about money. However, for me to throw that kind of money at a car I need it to provide some kind of return. For me it's not so much that it's "the" original engine but definitely the correct engine series for the year of the model produced. 

Thanks heaps for putting the effort into such a detailed response. It definitely seems to line up with what I've found out and about in the world. 

What do you reckon the chances are of finding a RB26 block with RB260043 to RB260045 serial numbers as this is a genuine option. Enjoy the R33 engine that's in it and find and build a period correct RB with the right numbers to keep on the shelf... 

[BK]

30 minutes ago, nastylilweed said:

What do you reckon the chances are of finding a RB26 block with RB260043 to RB260045 serial numbers

Slim to none I would think. I really wouldn't get too hung up on it as overall condition of car is way more important.

[r32-25t]

With Japanese cars the vin number and the body condition is where all the money is, the only people who get hung up on engine numbers are Americans 

[djvoodoo]

What happens when you crack your block (Which will happen at some point with an RB 🙂 ) Are you then going to try find another period correct block? Or buy a new one, Because you'd certainly be waiting a while for a 'period correct' block to show up in a for sale marketplace.

[nastylilweed]

1 hour ago, r32-25t said:

With Japanese cars the vin number and the body condition is where all the money is, the only people who get hung up on engine numbers are Americans 

 

26 minutes ago, djvoodoo said:

What happens when you crack your block (Which will happen at some point with an RB 🙂 ) Are you then going to try find another period correct block? Or buy a new one, Because you'd certainly be waiting a while for a 'period correct' block to show up in a for sale marketplace.

Both of these things I agree with. However this is what makes an "original" car worth more than a non-original car. Unfortunately the precedent has been set that original engine and chassis is more valuable. In the market this is still the case whether there's a material difference or not. The fact that an original RB managed to survive for that long and remain in tact is a genuine value adding feature. 

As soon as a car stops becoming an enthusiast car and starts becoming an investment car these things have a huge influence on valuations. This is already the case with GTRs, check out the sale prices for original cars with full history and cars without or with modifications. There's already a 10-20% difference in the market.

It kind of is what it is, I'm still contemplating buying this car even if it's not the correct engine. It's more that I need to understand the difference in value now and in 10 years time. 

[djvoodoo]

52 minutes ago, nastylilweed said:

 

Both of these things I agree with. However this is what makes an "original" car worth more than a non-original car. Unfortunately the precedent has been set that original engine and chassis is more valuable. In the market this is still the case whether there's a material difference or not. The fact that an original RB managed to survive for that long and remain in tact is a genuine value adding feature. 

As soon as a car stops becoming an enthusiast car and starts becoming an investment car these things have a huge influence on valuations. This is already the case with GTRs, check out the sale prices for original cars with full history and cars without or with modifications. There's already a 10-20% difference in the market.

It kind of is what it is, I'm still contemplating buying this car even if it's not the correct engine. It's more that I need to understand the difference in value now and in 10 years time. 

If you are looking at it from a purely 'investment' angle, then find a low KM example with all logbooks, export certs, stock everything including engine numbers, store it in a garage and don't drive it.. Ever.. 

Then sell in 15 yrs time.

 

 

[joshuaho96]

Looking at the BaT auctions for these cars I don't think the collectors right now are really looking at engine numbers. Nobody buying these things cares about stuff like that when there are much bigger issues to be worried about like major rust problems, severely ragged out/damaged interiors, poorly done resprays, etc. Focus on condition and the rest will follow. Just swapping out an engine from late R32 to R33 is really a nothingburger when those engines are basically identical part for part. In 10 years who knows but I bet with all of the Adam LZs of the world doing big builds with no real concern for quality of work or maintaining the character and refinement of the OEM parts it will be even less relevant with such a slim pool of options for buyers. Just having a relatively stock good condition R32 GT-R VSpec II is already a very rare thing and will be even rarer in the future.

I'm not really a collector though, I bought a grade 3 R33 and restored it so I could have something that I could drive. It's not very fun to have a car where you're terrified of letting your feet rub against the floor mats when you press the clutch in or you fret about driving in the rain because it might rust due to Nissan's sparse factory undercoating. 

[joshuaho96]

On 5/3/2021 at 3:27 AM, BK said:

So you're buying this as an investment ? If there is no concrete evidence how would you ever prove original motor authenticity to a potential buyer ?

Anyway for your information I can give you some numbers on our GTRs for further info:

10/1989 BNR32-002605, definitely original block was : RB26003940A. Since replaced with new block RB26D090076P.

09/1990 BNR32-011875 : 99% sure original block RB26014217A.

02/1995 BCNR33-002155 : I'll bet my left nut original block as I bought this car completely standard and immaculte with 62000km on it over 18 years ago : RB26050092A.

Our latest edition 11/1989 BNR32-003217 with block RB26062552A. This car has been changed from KH2 to 326 and is the only one I'll guarantee has had another engine fitted before I got it.

I have to say suprisingly it does correspond so far with your above findings.

To add to this as some data, my BCNR33-005838 has the block RB26053761A on it. I suspect this engine is original as the car is pretty much stock before I got it. If we assume the VINs go upward in order and we assume no spare blocks are built for any reason then we get 53775, which is extremely close to what my block number actually ended up being.