ATS Carbon Silent Twin - Anyone Used ?

[Butters]

Doing a R34 Getrag conversion in my Cefiro.

 

Looking at two clutch options the above ATS twin carbon silent and a Nismo Coppermix twin.

Currently have the push version of the Nismo coppermix(680ps) and found it started to slip around 700hp at wheels.

I also find it is a bit heavy on the foot(i've had a leg operation and due another). The pull version is rated to 780ps

 

On paper the ATS silent carbon twin ticks all the box's.

900ps rating

using factory dual mass

silent operation.

light pedal.

 

I read through the threads though on the carbon clutches and no shortage of stories of people pulling them out.

They are all from 2006 to 2014 though.

 

This is a new(ish) clutch by ATS , wondering if anyone has used ? is it any better ? does it suit the street as claimed ?

 

 

 

[Ben C34]

get a clutch from an Aussie clutch company. Tell them what  you want it to do. Buy what they say will work.

 

[Butters]

I've spoken to a couple already (the better known and recommended in aus) and found them to not very helpful thus far.

 I have a direct clutch in my race car and whilst its great in that, it is so far from  what I want for my street car its not funny.

 

I am not aware of any Aus that make a silent clutch ?

[BK]

Nismo coppermix clutches are not even in the same ballpark as any ATS carbon clutch. The silent carbon ATS clutch is really just retaining the dual mass flywheel as a means of trying to tame the excessive Getrag rollover gear noise which is enhanced with a solid flywheel. They are a pretty clunky sounding box like a Tremec T56 or TR6060, which is not helped by the fact they use an ATF fluid because of the synchro material.

It'll be a good clutch as the ATS carbons are the shit - the carbon plates are all the same. ACS in Adelaide used to stock ATS at good prices. If not they have their own twin carbon which might be worth a look behind a Getrag.

[Butters]

So the stories of people trashing them on install are a thing of past now ? 

Should I expect much slip ?

[joshuaho96]

20 hours ago, BK said:

Nismo coppermix clutches are not even in the same ballpark as any ATS carbon clutch. The silent carbon ATS clutch is really just retaining the dual mass flywheel as a means of trying to tame the excessive Getrag rollover gear noise which is enhanced with a solid flywheel. They are a pretty clunky sounding box like a Tremec T56 or TR6060, which is not helped by the fact they use an ATF fluid because of the synchro material.

It'll be a good clutch as the ATS carbons are the shit - the carbon plates are all the same. ACS in Adelaide used to stock ATS at good prices. If not they have their own twin carbon which might be worth a look behind a Getrag.

Are the ATS carbon clutches really all that good for street use? I was under the impression that the lack of springs in the clutch means it's much easier to cause shock loading of the drivetrain unless you take care to prevent it in how you drive.

[BK]

5 hours ago, joshuaho96 said:

Are the ATS carbon clutches really all that good for street use?

Yes

[Butters]

I rang ACS, they no longer do carbon clutches, only something called a carbon button. 

Everything they sell rattles though.  Also have to do pull to push conversion. 

 

Hunting down a dual mass flywheel to go with ATS silent carbon twin is next challenge. 

 

 

[BK]

18 minutes ago, Butters said:

I rang ACS, they no longer do carbon clutches, only something called a carbon button. 

Everything they sell rattles though.  Also have to do pull to push conversion. 

 

Hunting down a dual mass flywheel to go with ATS silent carbon twin is next challenge. 

 

 

I love ATS, but I must say I don't actually believe the bnr34 silent ATS twin is a very good deal though, at $3700AUD before tax, import duty or shipping from RHD Japan and you have to add a 34 dual mass flywheel on top of that too. They really are starting to price themselves out of the market.

The BNR34 ATS silent clutch also requires a pull to push conversion as per Note 3.

http://www.ppi-ats.com/Silent_clutch.html

https://www.rhdjapan.com/ats-across-silent-carbon-twin-clutch-kit-spec-2-bnr34.html

[Butters]

Oh bummer, I missed the push conversion notes !

 

As for pricing, seen the price for R34 GTR stuff lately ...  haha

 

 

[Butters]

Well, I went the nismo twin clutch.  The clutch pedal in = silent as, drives amazing, foot feel is great and it holds power no problem   

.... but ...

in neutral with pedal out the box is pretty damn loud .. so loud I am googling ATS silent clutch again and finding my own thread

[Ben C34]

That's not the clutch making the noise, it is locked up so no rattles possible, unless there is some freaky stuff happening

[GTSBoy]

On 8/15/2022 at 2:38 PM, Ben C34 said:

That's not the clutch making the noise, it is locked up so no rattles possible, unless there is some freaky stuff happening

Yeah....but..... you have to account for the different (and obviously sometimes wrong) way that people use the terms "in" and "out" to describe clutch engagement and disengagement.

If you read

On 8/14/2022 at 9:15 PM, Butters said:

The clutch pedal in = silent as, drives amazing

As being the clutch pedal up/out (instead of Butters' "in"), then it makes sense.

And the use of "out" in the 2nd paragraph interpreted as "disengaged" would then also make sense.

It's all just a matter of whether you think that "pedal in" means "pedal pushed in" which means "clutch disengaged", or if you think "pedal in" means "pedal up" which then makes the "in" mean "engaged". Either of which can be argued for, but only one of them is going to be "obvious" to each person.

[BK]

Clutch is engaged or disengaged - not in, out, released, de-released, coupled, decoupled, uncoupled, unengaged blah, blah  😄

 

[Ben C34]

How about " trying to transmit drive" and " not trying to transmit drive" ?

[Butters]

Well to be be clear my saying - "clutch pedal in" means that the clutch pedal is pressed to the floor and the clutch is disengaged(no drive transmitted) at the gearbox.

So the noise on the clutch pedal out, or clutch engaged is the gearbox which is apparently normal with the getrag once you take the dual mass flywheel out.

 

So whilst it is the gearbox making the noise, it is a result of the change of clutch ...

 

ATS even made a video about it -

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Butters

[Butters]

For those with no patience for a 2min video the exact example that bothers me is here.

It's very noticeable sitting at traffic lights with the window down.

 

 

[BK]

So you getting one ?

[Butters]

The conclusion I am on at the moment is I want a nismo twin plate mated to dual mass flywheel. 

 

That's the only zero noise, clutch engaged/not engaged option I can think of which of course does not exist. 

 

Going to email neat gearbox for some advice, they might have some options to drop the box noise. 

[Ben C34]

or just ignore noise considering it doesn't matter?

race car noise.