What are people doing for HCR32 suspension these days?

[Matvei27]

To be honest, it doesn't sound ideal from the perspective of a road car. I'm kind of surprised no one makes adjustable fronts with some sort of bush, either poly or rubber, instead of a beating. Unless there's one I don't know of. Might be better to just use adjustable bushes.

 

Regarding sway bar links, are you using ones with ball joints on both ends, or bushings on one end and a ball joint on the other (semi-rigid)?

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Matvei27

[GTSBoy]

Keep in mind that with R32 upper arms, bushes of any sort are AIDS. Anal AIDS. Festering, dripping anal AIDS. With extra herpes. You do not want them. Bearings are more than 9000% better.

There's nothing wrong with the bearings that are in the ends of any of the adjustable length arms (the ones with sliding centre sections). What is wrong is that the design of the suspension puts stupidly large loads into those bearings as the arm swings up and down, because of the twist that occurs. This is why the OEM arms have the big hydro-squishy bushes in them, and why poly bushes cop a hiding when retrofitted. If the bearings are multi-element (like ball bearings or roller bearings), they don't love the abuse. That's probably 90+% of all adjustable arm options.

The big sphericals in the GK-Tech arms would probably take the abuse, but they don't need to, because the flexible design takes that load out of them.

[Matvei27]

To clarify regarding sway bar links. I have ARC swaybars and ARC 'semi rigid' rear links that have bushes on one end and joints on the other. I've also seen Nagisa auto ones with joints on both ends (second picture). Not sure if it makes a huge difference but I thought semirigid would be better than full rigid for the road.

Not sure what to get for the front links. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Matvei27

[GTSBoy]

Well, neither of those are any good because they are not adjustable length. It's almost essential to be able to set the length on the droplinks to prevent the bar or the links fouling on other stuff when you have adjustable bars where you move from hole to hole to change the bar.

I have (or perhaps, had) these on the rear

https://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail4.php?part_number=KLC109&sq=30367

Balls at both ends. I suspect that they might have been changed out last time my bro-in-law had the car up on the hoist because I think I'd managed to damage one (through stupidity). It's a fine detail either way. He might not have put the same ones back on.

I think I have these on these on the front.

https://au.gktech.com/s13-180sx-s14-s15-front-swaybar-end-links

I don't think it is possible to do something similar to the Whiteline rears on the front.

What you need to use depends on the orientation of the holes in the bars. Not all the aftermarket bars have the same orientation as the stockers.

[GTSBoy]

Well, neither of those are any good because they are not adjustable length. It's almost essential to be able to set the length on the droplinks to prevent the bar or the links fouling on other stuff when you have adjustable bars where you move from hole to hole to change the bar.

I have (or perhaps, had) these on the rear

https://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail4.php?part_number=KLC109&sq=30367

Balls at both ends. I suspect that they might have been changed out last time my bro-in-law had the car up on the hoist because I think I'd managed to damage one (through stupidity). It's a fine detail either way. He might not have put the same ones back on.

I think I have these on these on the front.

https://au.gktech.com/s13-180sx-s14-s15-front-swaybar-end-links

I don't think it is possible to do something similar to the Whiteline rears on the front.

What you need to use depends on the orientation of the holes in the bars. Not all the aftermarket bars have the same orientation as the stockers.

[Matvei27]

The arc bars I have aren't adjustable. They came with the semi rigid rear links and replacement bushings for the front oem links.

[Matvei27]

12 hours ago, alexj said:

The gtst has nismo fucas bushes and whiteline tension rod bushes

Just noticed this statement. Why the Nismo FUCAs with adjustable (white line/superpro?) bushes vs the regular arm? Isn't the Nismo arm for the GTST identical to the OEM one?

 

[alexj]

My gtst has nismo bushes in the standard fucas. This is just an attempt to fit something that could have longer life than the standard bushes which wear out fairly fast. There isn't any adjustment for camber with just the nismo bushes but the drop in ride height from the teins adds a useful little bit of negative camber, which was a good enough for my needs.

The whiteline tension rod bushes have an eccentric adjuster to add a little bit of caster.

Nismo also do a kit for the gtr which moves the holes in the inner mount bracket of the fucas. Which helps a bit with the bad geometry. That bracket would work on a gtst. I can't remember if the rest of the kit is gtr specific. I think it is as it also has a longer lower arm iirc.

Sounds like gtsboy had a particularly bad time with poly bushes, I didn't, but that was with very different conditions and usage, and your situation will be more like his than mine.

I'm not sure you need adjustable fucas for you application anyway tbh.

Edited June 28, 2021 by alexj

[Matvei27]

I guess whether I need adjustable camber in the front and more than normally available in the rear depends on how far I lower the coilovers, though it seems like adjustable castor would be useful at any height?

My understanding was that reaching an ideal ride height would require a way to adjust camber in the front and more in the rear.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Matvei27

[Matvei27]

49 minutes ago, alexj said:

Nismo also do a kit for the gtr which moves the holes in the inner mount bracket of the fucas.

They're discontinued. Is it worth buying a used set?

[Duncan]

It's caster that makes the issue with the upper arm geometry more obvious and flogs out the bushes sooner. Even for race use I ended up backing out some caster to stop having to replace upper bushes every event

[Matvei27]

If the adjustable bushings from white line and the like tend to crack, what about shorter fucas with rubber bushes? The nismos are standard length, but it looks like once upon a time JIC sold shortened fucas with standard rubber bushings, and I could probably find a set.

Edit: seems they might be too short though? Looks like they came in -10 or -20mm sizes.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Matvei27

[GTSBoy]

9 hours ago, Matvei27 said:

They're discontinued. Is it worth buying a used set?

You can just drill the different holes into factory mounts. There's a thread on this site with the required dimensions.

I haven't done it yet, because it's not really required with the GKTech arms, as it is largely about improving the arc that the arms swing through and the GKTechs banish that issue.

And Duncan is correct. When you add caster you make the situation for the upper bushes worse. So you can only add a very little amount of caster over stock without causing binding. You can actually feel it if you swing the suspension by hand (with spring & damper unit removed, so you can swing it by hand).

The realigned arm inner bolt holes in the Nismo bracket design alleviate that a bit and allow a little more caster. But the only real solution is the articulated arm. The GKTech arm is based on the Group A design (I think that was the Gibson cars, not the Jap Group A). The UAS arms are a reasonable alternative idea, but my experience with them is that they get thrashed in a worse way even that other arms. It's sad, because they are otherwise a good idea.

[Matvei27]

While I appreciate the GKtech being a superior design, the amount you've had to fuss with it scares me away a bit seeing as this is a road car. 

Is there any reason I shouldn't just get some nismo arm mounts, and either whiteline adjustable bushes in the OEM/nismo arm, or JIC -10mm rubber bushed arms? 

That combined with ikeya or hardrace tension rods, and hardrace rear upper and traction rods sounds like it would be able to align my car at the theoretically ideal 350mm height without resorting to rose joints.

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Matvei27

[GTSBoy]

The fact that the car drives better on the GKTechs is enough or me.

Having gone through the teething/learning stage, I'm never going back. Poly bushes have cost me much more sanity over the years than the last couple of years of experimenting with different swivelling arms has.