NSW Gov't imposing a night curfew for people U21? WTF?

[fatz]

suck to be under 21 and like cars

[R31Nismoid]

Next they'll try make it illegal to drink beers under the age of 21.

How bad would THAT be hey fatz?

[Guilty]

yeah but r31 nismoid, even the legal limit is 18 now, are you telling me you didnt drink when you were under? Of coz you did...everyone did.

that law would mean shiiiiiiiit all to everyone....such as this new law...no one would care about it coz it aint responsible at all

[Fitzpatrick Speed Works]

hahaha i love when car related issues come up in the news it is so funny that we live in a country that busting a p plater doin a burnout is a higher priority that catching house theives or druggies.... AND DO YOU KNOW WHY??????

The little dirty R word!!!

REVENUE

More restrictions on something that is easily policed never goes near a court, has minimal paperwork and no wrong conviction aspects will always prove popular for governemts and police chiefs, theres no risk all money!!!... It amazes me that more people don't realise this... why do you think cops are always cracking down on "Illegal Street racing".. Just last week in town 20 police marched on a local car hang out saying everyone leave or you will be arrested... HA me and my mate stayed the cops came up said "move on"... we said "car wont start plus if you want arrest me i dont care!!!" Oh loitering as an offence!!! Cop said he couldnt be bothered "stop being a smart arse i wouldnt want to fill out the papre work just Fark off!!!!"

This is just my point cars are a priority as its easy money it has nothing to do with fatilities, more teens die from suicide each year and from OD then car crashes dont let the properganda fool you but can they make any money out of suicide prevention, no, its damn sad but its not as attractive as cracking down on revenue raising excersises like fining people!!

[Fly_With_Sky]

hey what is with our mate bobby carr saying he will not consider more driver training as an option as it is just not practical and would not do a thing to reduce teen deaths, but then says he welcomes curfews... ok maybe thats practical to him but what about the rest of nsw (teens and parents included) that stand to be disadvantaged by this 'practical' option. i just cant understand why more driver training would so quickly be ignored, but then again i guess the costs would be too much for them.

i think we definately need some impartial body bringing together all the facts and figures and then recommending what would be feasible and could work with the best interests of all nsw citizens in mind. But i know i am asking the impossible there but oh well...

maybe a tv show like 60 minutes should host a big debate where they have u21's in one section, parents in another, and then politicans (ie carl scully, bob carr, ken moroney and co) in another. now that would certaintly be somehting to watch...

[A.D.I.D.A.S]

not practical??? Would not do a thing to reduce deaths???

WHAT THE F.U.C.K?

there isnt anything better to reduce deaths! jesus. the gov't is just being stubborn and thinks we dont know whats going on. pricks.

two words: speed cameras. they RAKE it in

plus, i bet 60 minutes would rig the debate.

[GTRgeoff]

yeah but r31 nismoid, even the legal limit is 18 now, are you telling me you didnt drink when you were under? Of coz you did...everyone did.

that law would mean shiiiiiiiit all to everyone....such as this new law...no one would care about it coz it aint responsible at all

Mate, only drinking in public is illegal for under 18's. Responsible introduction to alcohol in the family home is legal.

the state govts only have one goal

REVENUE

[fatz]

arron magill has hit the nail on the head here

i agree 10000000000%

and yea it would suck to not have beer before turning 21 just because you have to drive at night

from arrons news letter

Thank you to everyone who has had an opinion re the "P" plate issue.

My comment for what it is worth, and read this when you have the time.

Driver education IS NOT the magic pill that many of us believe it is re our young driver road toll! A bold statement.

In 10 years of doing driver education on racetracks and skid pans, I am yet to be convinced that the old style of driver education, I.e. hit the brakes, throw the car sideways and a quick chat on road law has any effect on the young in age or in brain! I cannot count the courses when we have seen young drivers and those that should know better doing a Phase 1 course, displaying interest in everything but safety, I.e. spinning wheels, using handbrakes and asking the eternal question....when can we get on the track mate, this craps so boring!

I believe that some young drivers suffer from;

Total arrogance to the law.

Total disregard for the safety of the wider community.

Extreme lack of vehicle control in most conditions other than straight and slow.

Inflated opinion of their ability...(some never grow out of this)

A never ending rev limit in the chase for "the next thrill".

I believe these are some of the above issues result from;

Peer Pressure

Over exposure to motor sport via television...We make it look easy. (I know can you believe it!)

Unrealistic views of driving created by Playstation etc.

Dad does it!

Poor training in early stages of driver development.

It is very easy for us to "blanket" young drivers with the risky label. All young drivers do this or that, and every P plate driver speeds! Is it true? I suggest not.

We must remember that young men like to play football, they seek danger as part of their development to manhood. The military understand this, hence when you see an F18 pilot he is probably only 21yo. Yet the military can HARNESS the impetuousness of youth via discipline and education, and they only choose the bright ones. Which brings us to the point, should every person have the right to drive?

Do we need to IQ test drivers just as some companies where I work in crash avoidance test prospective employees PRIOR to going on the road in a company car? Needless to say the employees are above average in intelligence. Do they still crash... you better believe it. However, in my experience to date, intelligence combined with correct education dramatically reduces the crash rate per kilometre driven and the severity of the incident.

So my summary to reduce youth crash rates involving death and major trauma;

Introduction of night curfew...It's good enough for the aircraft industry re new pilots!

Vehicle power to weight ratio limitations....My son drives a 76 model original XC Falcon 4.9 litre V8. Put it alongside a standard 85 model Nissan skyline and see which is fastest! All V8's are not fast.

Limitations on passengers regarding numbers and ages. (see peer pressure)

A further "P" plate assessment prior to issue of"green" P plate.

A quality delivered risk management driver education course in basic car control and consequences.

Enforcing the above will always be the issue. Our school struggles to get young drivers on P's to do a Phase 1 course... they just want to know how to have fun by throwing the around so they can arrive at the pole faster once they've run out of talent and luck.

Cheers

Aaron

Auto-Motion Australia

Ph/Fax: 02 48 722-622

Mob: 0410 317 013

www.auto-motion.com.au

www.aaronmcgillmotorsport.com

Driving Excellence

[2BNVS]

like mentioned so many times, "i dont even know where to begin"...it is completley rediculous this curfew sh*t...the govt are just trying to push something under the rug by avoiding U21 to drive at night totally, thats not teaching them anything...

scenario, ur 21st is coming up, u havent been allowed to drive at night for a while (if u choose not to anyway) as soon as u hit 21 does that give u a VIP pass in perfect f*ckin driving???

this will only encourage drivers not to show their p plates and alot of them wouldnt really care, i know i wouldnt...

LIving in wollongong myself, i have witness the steep downfall of the hangouts at the lighthouse, and from everytime i have been there i always see older guys doin the dumbshit anyway...

its all a revenue raising bullshit thing that cops are gonna have a field day...

i have so many thoughts running thru my head i dont even know where and what to write...

like mentioned earlier, my parents would rather me drive my car between those times, as it is the whole point of me getting my license to be independant and give my parents a brake, last thing i want is to wake them or keep them up at 1am to come pickk me up when my dad starts work at 330am and my mum not much later...i think it would be unfair for them...

with the 1 passenger thing...WTF is that???? i dont even know where to start with this its bloody stupid, surely every1 has more than 1 mate they like to hang out with...theres just toooo many things wrong with this one...

Bob Carr is a wank!!! driver training is not practicle but avoiding driving is???? riggghttt. what the fark is not driving gonna teach about safe driving...its common sense u moron..

"As far as I am concerned though, at 18 a person is an adult and can join the military and serve, kill or die for their country. They can vote and consume alcohol - legally."

that is an excellent quote, could not agree more, and even my parents agreed...

interesting to see how this legislation goes...

cheers...ben.

[GODRAVER]

Like every1 here id like to put my opinion forward as well... I think the law will stop a lot of problems going on, but at the same time it will cause them. The truth is as much as we try to deny it, younger drivers are most likly to commit a road and traffic offence than an older driver, (You would see a son doing a burnout but not the dad)

I do see what the goverment is trying to do by proposing this law, but its not right to limit a person from living to the max,

Sure there are plenty of good young drivers out there but i hate to say the majority would be the bad drivers. Australia has to my knowleadge the widest variety of people of difrent races and religions living togheter than any place ive seen around the world so im sure we can all come togheter and come up with a better sollution to this proposal, sure its easy to point the trouble makers but if you think hard enought you can admit you have screewed up before as well. I can easily admit i did crap while driving on P' Plates (And im still on my P's) and im sure we all have in our lifetime, But we learn from our mistakes. "We" all can, that is why i think the goverment should come up with a diffrent solution that does not prevent any1 from living a full life. It is true that police target younger drivers more than any others that i dont deny but thats because there are some of us that leave behind a really bad reputation and then we get the harsh tretment.

I could go on for a whole day writing and explaining why its a good idea and a bad idea at the same time, to sum up id like to make you all aware that it is our actions that cause these proposals to come forward, if you dont want this and any new similar law being passed then act like you should, dont do anything stupid and stay out of trouble.

Robin.

[fatz]

i recon anyone under 21 when they have more than one mate in the car drives like a tool

i know i did..... the amount of close calls was huge im lucky to be alive

and it wasnt just me when i was in my mates car there were a million close calls as well

so only having one of your mates in the car at night is a great idea

[2BNVS]

i forgot to mention before....they say ppl who have to work can get somethin to let the young person drive between certain hours, but whats the difference between someone driving to and from work or during work hours, than a young person driving in general at the same times...either way they are driving on the roads at night, and the person working can still do stupid stuff in the car....

cheers...ben.

[MANWHOR3]

all i have to say, is this is completely ****ed. it is the old people who just don't understand. Check even our general discussion section. People agreeing with the curfue. All i have to say, is that with this curfew, that means that we will not be able to go out between 10pm-6am. What happens if we drove our car to city? Either sleep in it until 6, or take a taxi. Then get a taxi back the next day to collect car?

Curfew, unlike ****ing john howard who is so ****ing ugly, that only his mumma would love him, i have a gf. Does that mean that i can not drive a friend to a place because my gf is with me?

If this ever gets enforced, i would definitely be involved in the bridge protest. Every under 21 should ****ing park their cars on all the major roads in sydney and shut the city down. That'd get their attention immediately. Something similar happend. In czecheslovakia, they were under a totalitarian regime. The people blocked off all the roads, city came to a stop. Imagine if this happened, if the harbour bridge, tunnel, m2, all the main roads, pennant hills road, anzac bridge..... ****ing shut it down until 6 am. That's when it starts to get busy. Plus all these extra cars at that time, will cause a traffic jam once they start moving.

[GTRgeoff]

Guys you have the wrong target. Didn't they teach you politics in school. It's not the Federal Liberal (Howard) government doing this but the wanker Labor State governments that make the state laws. Liberal in Vic want to go back to 10% for all camera infringements instead of the 3kmh (that's right 3 k's over and gone) that Bracks has installed. I didn't even vote for Howard when he first came to be PM but he is doing better than any other PM has. Labor Screw the economy every time and then sting us all more taxes...A***holes.

[Nathan]

Hero Thread.....

We Were all Born To Drive When Young Dumb & Full Of .......

Fatz, Gonad Man & I Are Sitting here reading this crap.

1/ Blame everyone else. Government, Roads Sky Radio. 99% of the time IT IS BULLSHIT!!!! Cat, dog horse jumped out... never been thought of before??????

2/ Younger "P" plate drivers are under under scrutiny because of fact (you are a danger to society) I was a lucky bastard and a total dick on the road. Thank God I was in a rual area.

3/ Why arn't you on the track if you are the god nut holding onto the steering wheel?

4/Blow off valve V's drive day what's better spent for performance? why is there such a poor attendance at drive days form under 21?

All we want is not back off when Einstein with the "P" wants to show (Prove) how its done on the street, not the track.

I'm sure that we are not the only three.

Pete here... ive have never knocked anyone who want to learn on the track however all under 21 seem to be never there and or not asking for help

Gonads here....

IMO 20 minutes on the track teaches you more about car control then 10 years on the road but.....I really don't think this is the answer for the less experienced drivers out there.

As Aaron mentioned it's probably not driver training that we need but attitude training. The best driver can be more dangerous on the road than a crap driver as long as the crap driver knows he is crap. Research suggests that driver training can lead to more risk-taking behaviour.

On the other hand most young male 16-25yo drivers will engage in risk taking behaviour anyway so it is probably better to equip them with the necessary skills to control a car when things go wrong.

First priority is to somehow reduce risk-taking behaviour. This is very difficult to achieve as it's ingrained in us young blokes from day 1.

Next best solution is to equip us with the skills to handle the stuff-ups caused by our inherently bad attitudes caused by upbringing and testosterone. Aaron can be a BIG help here.

...my 2c, thanks for listening. Off my soapbox now.

In summary, what we are trying to say is if want want to impress, do it in the cot! not on the road, condoms are cheaper than under age excess.

[GTRgeoff]

Great group effort guys. I think the reason youngsters often won't come to the track is that they believe they have to have the perfect track car first, but then possibly won't because they will be exposed to scrutiny...in their minds. It all comes back to that safe cocoon at school where failure wasn't an issue and they had no threats.

I'm impressed by anyone willing to turn up and have a go at the track, within their limits, and even more impressed when someone says "I need some help here to learn the track/skills/expectations".

[d0p3y]

Too many dickheads out there spoiling it for the rest of us I say.

[B-Man]

Nath, Fatz, Gonads -

Absolutely agree with everything you say there.

There are a couple of challenges:

1) How to remove the 'I am invincable' attitude of the youth drivers.

2) How to remove the peer pressure associated with youth drivers, etc (drink & drive, speed, be an idiot, etc)

3) How to make it financial viable to get youth drivers down to the circuit.

To all young guys out there - Us old guys have been thru what you are going thru - and guess what - It is not cool to do stupid shit on the street. We've all done it and regret it.

It is VERY cool to take it to the track.

[GTRgeoff]

You saying I'm very cool? Yeahhhhhheheheheh

[A.D.I.D.A.S]

how much is it for a 'day' at a track? eg eastern creek.