ATI Balancer Powersteering question R33 GTR

[MoMnDadGTR]

I am finishing up a build on a friends car, he bought a long block and it came with the ATI balancer but not the Powersteering Pulley. He is trying to find just the pulley but looks like he is going to have to order the whole kit. is it ok to run the ATI balancer with the standard r33 gtr powersteering pulley(on the pump) for now until we find the proper ATI pulley? or will we boil the fluid or wreck the pump etc. do you guys know something i dont maybe another pulley that will work with the ATI blanacer etc. cheers

[MoMnDadGTR]

it feels find but its not the same size it either under driving or over driving i just don't know if its going to damage anything or not on longer trips and dont want to give him the car back and have it fail on him.

 

[Duncan]

If you have a standard balancer and the ATI one you can calculate the % underdriven by comparing the diameter of both. 

If not, I believe the only difference between standard 32 and 33 pulleys are the number of ribs for the belt, so you can measure off a 32 one as well.

[BK]

But they are designed for the factory pump pulley as It is under driven on power steering. The ATI 750hp one is 16% under driven and the 1000hp is 3% so you can use the factory pump pulley.

http://www.atiracing.com/products/dampers/charts/damnissan.htm

 

The balancers like Ross or ATI are generally designed to work with whatever power steering pump your using with it's standard pump pulley, as the offset differences are really the important thing to get right. Using R32 GTR power steering pump, need 32 GTR balancer as the power steering pulley sits further forward. Using R33 GTR power steer pump, use R33/R34 GTR balancer. Ross have an excellent offset chart that illustrates the changes between models. Ross explains it as:

On the Nissan RB engine your power steering pump determines which Harmonic Damper you will need. Simply select the Harmonic Damper that matches your Power Steering set up.

But it is rarely that simple, so what are the similarities?

All the RB engines share the same pulley offsets and groove count for the water pump/alternator pulley. All RB engines, excluding the Australian delivered RB30E/ET, share the same pulley offsets and groove count for the air conditioner pulley, the Australian delivered RB30E/ET has a V pulley for AC.

So that is what is the same, so what are the differences?

As above the differences between the models is the power steering pump/pulley offset and groove count. This means that whatever car donated its power steering pump, pulley and bracket to your setup determines which damper you choose.

All RB26 R32, R33 and R34 GTR's have splined power steering pump shafts with a nut on the front, all other RB pumps use a press on pulley. The RB26 R32GTR power steering pulley is 4PK and the pulley line is the furthest forward of all RB engines. The RB26 R33 GTR / RB26 R34 GTR power steering pulley is also 4PK, however the pulley line is 1PK pitch (3.5mm) closer to the engine compared to the R32GTR fitment. The RB20DET and RB25NEO share the same 4PK power steering offset, approx. 10mm closer to the engine compared to the RB26 R32GTR. The RB25DET R33 and RB30E/ET share the same PS offset as the RB20DET / RB25NEO but have one pulley groove removed from the front to become a 3PK pulley.

 

 

[MoMnDadGTR]

On 27/02/2022 at 9:27 PM, BK said:

But they are designed for the factory pump pulley as It is under driven on power steering. The ATI 750hp one is 16% under driven and the 1000hp is 3% so you can use the factory pump pulley.

http://www.atiracing.com/products/dampers/charts/damnissan.htm

 

The balancers like Ross or ATI are generally designed to work with whatever power steering pump your using with it's standard pump pulley, as the offset differences are really the important thing to get right. Using R32 GTR power steering pump, need 32 GTR balancer as the power steering pulley sits further forward. Using R33 GTR power steer pump, use R33/R34 GTR balancer. Ross have an excellent offset chart that illustrates the changes between models. Ross explains it as:

On the Nissan RB engine your power steering pump determines which Harmonic Damper you will need. Simply select the Harmonic Damper that matches your Power Steering set up.

But it is rarely that simple, so what are the similarities?

All the RB engines share the same pulley offsets and groove count for the water pump/alternator pulley. All RB engines, excluding the Australian delivered RB30E/ET, share the same pulley offsets and groove count for the air conditioner pulley, the Australian delivered RB30E/ET has a V pulley for AC.

So that is what is the same, so what are the differences?

As above the differences between the models is the power steering pump/pulley offset and groove count. This means that whatever car donated its power steering pump, pulley and bracket to your setup determines which damper you choose.

All RB26 R32, R33 and R34 GTR's have splined power steering pump shafts with a nut on the front, all other RB pumps use a press on pulley. The RB26 R32GTR power steering pulley is 4PK and the pulley line is the furthest forward of all RB engines. The RB26 R33 GTR / RB26 R34 GTR power steering pulley is also 4PK, however the pulley line is 1PK pitch (3.5mm) closer to the engine compared to the R32GTR fitment. The RB20DET and RB25NEO share the same 4PK power steering offset, approx. 10mm closer to the engine compared to the RB26 R32GTR. The RB25DET R33 and RB30E/ET share the same PS offset as the RB20DET / RB25NEO but have one pulley groove removed from the front to become a 3PK pulley.

 

 

Thanks for the info mates, heres where the confusion was started. My mate and i were having a pizza discussing the build and i was 99 percent sure that you used the oem power steering pulley with the ATI balancer(which is correct). he said i was wrong and the ati balancer came with a pulley for the PS pump.. When you search for the ati balancer for rb26 it says w/powersteering pulley which made him/me think it came with a pulley for the ps pump. Stupidly enough on my behalf i quickly looked at the photo and didn't notice you can clearly see there's no spline drive pulley that comes with the kit and the pulley it comes with just bolts on the crank(can see the bolt holes clearly). this made things obvious that everything was fine and this post was a waste of time and I'm an idiot. i was just yanking my hair out over nothing.....i guess this is why i still run a oem crank pulley(new from kudo not an old buggered up one) and haven't messed with a aftermarket balancer yet. i just like simple. My black car is at 700whp and i only rev to 8000 i dont think it will be an issue or has not been yet at least...anyways cheers thanks duncan and ben. 

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by MoMnDadGTR

[alexj]

Just to add to confusion, I think ATI had their part numbers on their website back to front for the R33 vs R32.

Saw this info on a Facebook group iirc, a US drag racer noticed the error when he was figuring why he kept throwing PAS belts. ATI confirm the error so they may have fixed it by now. But there still may be duff info out there based on their old catalog.

 

You can use the info from Ross that BK shared to check it before fitting. 

I have an ATI r32 pulley on my 32 but I use a 33 pas pump, so i should have fitted the ATI r33 pulley, and they aren't aligned but i have almost stock rev limiter so i dont seem to throw belts...

Edited February 28, 2022 by alexj

[BK]

Yes it's all handy info there for a quick reference to how the RBs differ. The ATI link I added seems to be the correct part numbers now too with regards to 32 vs 33/34 RB26.

If you're in Australia though I see no reason to run the ATI, since Ross now arguably supplies a superior product and backup. They are good if you are running a trigger setup - much cleaner crank trigger sensor installation than any other setup out there I think as they continue to innovate with all their stuff. The other products such as the lower timing gear setup is also far better thought out in design to the Nitto or Platinum offerings, and cheaper.

My only want is that they still don't offer the race or gold series damper that supports the factory a/c and power steering alignment positions yet. Only the now 4th generation Metal Jacket does, but is still more than enough for 90%+ of RB26 motors in use.

[MoMnDadGTR]

On 01/03/2022 at 5:53 AM, BK said:

Yes it's all handy info there for a quick reference to how the RBs differ. The ATI link I added seems to be the correct part numbers now too with regards to 32 vs 33/34 RB26.

If you're in Australia though I see no reason to run the ATI, since Ross now arguably supplies a superior product and backup. They are good if you are running a trigger setup - much cleaner crank trigger sensor installation than any other setup out there I think as they continue to innovate with all their stuff. The other products such as the lower timing gear setup is also far better thought out in design to the Nitto or Platinum offerings, and cheaper.

My only want is that they still don't offer the race or gold series damper that supports the factory a/c and power steering alignment positions yet. Only the now 4th generation Metal Jacket does, but is still more than enough for 90%+ of RB26 motors in use.

Thanks for all your info ben while i got you around one more question mate. i had to shim my oem crank pulley to work with a prp trigger kit, it was rubbing on the trigger kit bracket barely. i want to switch my crank pulley to something else. i dont want to use ATI at all i never have and dont want to sue fluidampr. which Ross crank pulley do i need to be compatible with my prp trigger kit if i go that route? if anyone has a better idea for me im open book. i feel 750whp at 8500 rpm is a little pushing the oem crank pulley. i run a r33 gtr powersteering pulley fyi. cheers mate

Edited March 1, 2022 by MoMnDadGTR

[MoMnDadGTR]

Ross Performance Nissan RB Harmonic Damper – Boost Factory

i think its this one i just know i dont need those tabs sticking out for the trigger kit as the prp uses the timing gear behind it...would like just a clean circle lol.

Edited March 1, 2022 by MoMnDadGTR

[MoMnDadGTR]

Ross Tuffbond RACE Harmonic Balancer for Nissan R33/R34 RB26 – Raw Brokerage

nope.....im still an idiot i think this is the one. 

[MoMnDadGTR]

Ross Tuffbond Metal Jacket Harmonic Balancer for Nissan R33/R34 RB26 – Raw Brokerage

i see this one has the same size drive for water pump and powersteering. i think that a good one.

 

[BK]

On 02/03/2022 at 5:00 AM, MoMnDadGTR said:

 had to shim my oem crank pulley to work with a prp trigger kit, 

Where ? Behind it ? Shouldn't have to do that as you'll mess with all the belt alignments being pushed forward.

As for a Ross damper, 33 power steer means 33 damper. As mentioned only the Metal Jacket damper works with the aircon in factory alignment location. All dampers are also available without any trigger teeth if retaining the Platinum oil pump mounted crank sensor.

There is an aircon relocation kit to use aircon with the race or gold series dampers, but cannot be used on any GTR if you retain the stock viscous radiator fan. These dampers require the conversion to full thermo setup to still use aircon.

[33SOM]

I have a ATI917752 with the power steering pulley on my rb26 (32 powersteering pump and r34 crank) and the steering is heavy. 

Anyway to resolve this or should I just replace what I have?

[Duncan]

On 02/03/2022 at 5:25 PM, 33SOM said:

I have a ATI917752 with the power steering pulley on my rb26 (32 powersteering pump and r34 crank) and the steering is heavy. 

Anyway to resolve this or should I just replace what I have?

Have you disconnected HICAS somehow?

[33SOM]

On 02/03/2022 at 4:27 PM, Duncan said:

Have you disconnected HICAS somehow?

Hicas is long gone. It's not as heavy as it is when HICAS is causing the issue.