Grout filling and sleeves

[r32-25t]

Are you confusing the 7k 24U block with the 3k 05U block?

[khezz]

On 21/7/2022 at 3:04 PM, r32-25t said:

Are you confusing the 7k 24U block with the 3k 05U block?

Yes. Sorry. I am. 
 

Where is this 3k coming from? All GTRs come with an RB26 included. 

[r32-25t]

https://justjap.com/collections/crate-engines-blocks/products/nismo-heritage-engine-block-11000-05u00-nissan-gtr-stagea-260rs-rb26dett
It’s actually 3,500 not 3k, they do come with one but if it’s cracked it’ll need to be replaced 

[BK]

New 05U blocks have been in the $3k - $4k region as far as I can remember.

On 22/07/2022 at 8:39 AM, khezz said:

Yes. Sorry. I am. 
 

Where is this 3k coming from? All GTRs come with an RB26 included. 

Yes they do, but those of us that have been around for awhile are definitely not on the original block that came with the car. My blue 32 is on new 05U block number 3 (thanks just jap).

[khezz]

That’s unfortunate. I had mine for 14 years and the only reason I got rid of mine was to go the RB32 route. Mine was in great condition when I sold it. It’s always going to be a lottery. Look at Andrew’s gtr. Stock bottom end ran into the 9s. Built one blew up very quickly. 
 

I feel like this post has gone of topic. Nothing wrong with grout and sleeves. Will make for a strong reliable bottom end up to a certain power level. 

[BK]

Havent had an engine failure before ? 14 years of what use and power levels ? it's easy to make engines live longer without motorsport use or lower power levels. My r33, it still has the original 27 year old block after 18 years at 330rwkw and motorsport use. Grout filling, bracing and sleeving are all ways that are to try and improve reliability when leaning on engines for power, but thats all under the assumption that nothing else fails at any point that could upset the rotating assembly. With all that done if something else happens that can cause bad harmonics, cracking a block is still on the cards. I will say every engine failure I've had has always been down to an external influence failure rather than a block just cracking from too much power.

First block failure was due to a failed standard harmonic balancer delaminating internally - cracked the block and crank. Was original block in car, but grout filled.

Second was detonation due to fuel starvation from failed pumps. Stuffed the pistons too - this block was sleeved, no grout.

Third from oil starvation from Trust sump being too small and also damaging my first Nitto 2.8 crankshaft - not sleeved or grouted.

All of these failures are at over 500kw at wheels and 9k rpm at the strip, all from getting the rotating assembly out of whack. I guess my point is that you can break anything if the wrong things happen, even with precautions like sleeving and grouting. Nothing is 100% reliable - everything can be broken and I can accept that.

[khezz]

I agree with everything written above. Every one of these failures would destroy a billet block to. If you are chasing big power, you shouldn’t skip on supporting mods. I made that very comment at the start of this thread. 
 

the question at the heart of this thread as I understand it, is grout/resin filling (sleeving) worth it? In my experience, yes. That doesn’t mean that you can overlook everything else. 

[BK]

Grout filling not entirely convinced in its effectiveness, but sleeving definitely raises the blocks power potential for sure.

[khezz]

On 23/7/2022 at 8:21 AM, BK said:

Grout filling not entirely convinced in its effectiveness, but sleeving definitely raises the blocks power potential for sure.

What was explained to me is by filling the bottom half of the water gallery, you reduce vibration. This not only helps preserve moving components but helps transfer power that would normally be wasted. You also greatly limit cylinder wall movement which causes blocks to crack. 

Grout is very cheap to buy. Since your block is out for rebuild and you will have a torque plate on it for machining, it’s pretty cheap insurance in my opinion. 

[RB335]

High power grout filled 05U's still crack in their weak spot.  

All of Maatouks 1000hp 26 Cast builds use a 24U block.  They do not run braces.  That might give some clues.

[BK]

This was on my blue 32 all those failures, the current block has been in for 4 years now and is good so far after CRD did the offset rebore to 87mm.

The white 32 has just been rebuilt and is already back in the car as of a couple of weeks ago - it stuffed a crank but didn't crack the block. Infact I just got the gearbox back in as we speak..

[khezz]

On 23/7/2022 at 3:08 PM, RB335 said:

High power grout filled 05U's still crack in their weak spot.  

All of Maatouks 1000hp 26 Cast builds use a 24U block.  They do not run braces.  That might give some clues.

That could be because they were the only blocks you could by new until recently. There is nothing magical about the N1 block.

I am sure Anthony and the team at Maatouks have a lot of tricks up their sleeves to get these engines to hold together. Hence they are one of the best in the world. 

[RB335]

N1 blocks rarely crack above the oil feed compared to 05U's.  Nismos foreman mentions they were designed to prevent this issue on his blog.  They also have a thicker deck.

From the info I've been told, a Sleeved RB26 built by JHH for a client appeared to begin mixing water and oil after deck began to give up, turned out expensive exercise for the customer who's having ongoing problems with it.  Appears on sleeved 26's the torque applied on the head studs is a fine balance of keeping the head sealed to block but not ruining the weakened deck.  I didn't want the risk of any crap like that so I went a Billet block even though I really wanted to stick with a cast block to be honest.  Once I get a decent amount of KMs on it I'll update on how it holds up

They still are building sleeved RBs.  Lot of builders are in disagreement with each other on sleeved blocks. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by RB335

[Predator1]

On 19/07/2022 at 9:24 PM, khezz said:

Even if you don’t need to change bearings, checking clearances is an engine out and complete pull apart job. Add an extra “0” to that $500. 

100%. You wont get much change from 5k if you want to pull a motor out to refresh the bottom end bearings. Whilst the parts may not cost much, its usually everything else surrounding it. Not to mention time.

[r32-25t]

Even getting ripped of and paying 5k is still cheaper then the price to replace a cracked cast block 

[TurboTapin]

I was wondering if the general consensus is still that cracked blocks are a 4WD issue only or has that opinion changed over the years? 

[khezz]

On 26/7/2022 at 5:36 AM, TurboTapin said:

I was wondering if the general consensus is still that cracked blocks are a 4WD issue only or has that opinion changed over the years? 

Depends on the crack. Exterior cracks are usually a 4wd issue/block twist. Internal damage can be tuning, build, age, over revving, inherit cast imperfections etc. exterior cracks can be repaired providing you haven’t turned your 6 into 2x3 cylinder blocks. Internal damage is more often then not end of the line for the block.

 

and yes, billet blocks are repairable but at a great cost.