Oil Pressure Sensor Location

[ggub]

I had actually been considering that relocation kit but wasn't sure if it was adding unnecessary complication and cost since I didn't have any plans to install an oil cooler. It's also my understanding that this would delete the oil warmer, which seems like a good thing to retain for getting things up to temperature as quickly as possible (Canberra winter mornings are cold!).

The warmer setup looks to be the same on the RB25 but I can't tell from the outside whether the filter or the warmer is getting oil first. If this diagram is to be believed, the warmer is getting flow first (on the RB26 at least):

[Duncan]

That is a good diagram, but it doesn't show where the temp sender is (and it is kind of a moot point since you are looking for rb25 not rb26). It does show the filter is the last thing before the main oil gallery which makes sense, you want the oil to be cleanest when it enters the engine.

You are right, the oil warmer is of use in cold climates in the morning, although the alternative is just to go easy until the oil is up to temp (which is of course what you would do anyway), I don't know how much difference it makes in warm up time. 

The reason I like the relocator kit is that it both gives a great place for oil senders, and lets you move the filter somewhere nice (whether that is for you or a mechanic). You don't need to do an oil cooler at the same time but it makes it easier if you decide to later (you just run the out from the engine to the oil cooler, and the other oil cooler port to the in on the filter mount)

An oil sandwich block can also work but has 2 problems compared to relocating. 1 they are generally screw mount (using the oil filter thread) so you need to make sure they are done up tight and stay done up tight. 2 they space the oil filter out (say 20mm? depending on model) which can make it VERY tight for a decent sized oil filter, and for the hand/tools that are changing the oil filter

[joshuaho96]

On 5/21/2022 at 3:13 PM, Duncan said:

That is a good diagram, but it doesn't show where the temp sender is (and it is kind of a moot point since you are looking for rb25 not rb26). It does show the filter is the last thing before the main oil gallery which makes sense, you want the oil to be cleanest when it enters the engine.

You are right, the oil warmer is of use in cold climates in the morning, although the alternative is just to go easy until the oil is up to temp (which is of course what you would do anyway), I don't know how much difference it makes in warm up time. 

The reason I like the relocator kit is that it both gives a great place for oil senders, and lets you move the filter somewhere nice (whether that is for you or a mechanic). You don't need to do an oil cooler at the same time but it makes it easier if you decide to later (you just run the out from the engine to the oil cooler, and the other oil cooler port to the in on the filter mount)

An oil sandwich block can also work but has 2 problems compared to relocating. 1 they are generally screw mount (using the oil filter thread) so you need to make sure they are done up tight and stay done up tight. 2 they space the oil filter out (say 20mm? depending on model) which can make it VERY tight for a decent sized oil filter, and for the hand/tools that are changing the oil filter

RBs already take ages to get the oil up to temperature when I stare at the gauge and that's in a pretty temperate climate driving the car gingerly to warm it up. Can't imagine having it take even longer without the OEM heat exchanger. Obviously for a full race kind of deal there's no point in having one, the N1 cars deleted all of that in favor of having an air cooled setup mounted in front of the radiator.

I have wondered for a while now, what's keeping people from using a very high impedance analog input to sample the OEM sensor instead of adding more sensors that clutter up what is already a very cramped area of the engine? The gauge reacts very slowly obviously but is the same true of the actual sensor itself?

[Chopstick Tuner]

On 22/05/2022 at 9:49 AM, joshuaho96 said:

RBs already take ages to get the oil up to temperature when I stare at the gauge and that's in a pretty temperate climate driving the car gingerly to warm it up. Can't imagine having it take even longer without the OEM heat exchanger. Obviously for a full race kind of deal there's no point in having one, the N1 cars deleted all of that in favor of having an air cooled setup mounted in front of the radiator.

I have wondered for a while now, what's keeping people from using a very high impedance analog input to sample the OEM sensor instead of adding more sensors that clutter up what is already a very cramped area of the engine? The gauge reacts very slowly obviously but is the same true of the actual sensor itself?

Well he mentioned adding oil temp sensor also, so adding an additional gauge means he has no choice to but to find a way to fit an extra sensor in there. 

But as for your question, convenience is the likely answer. Seems easy to just chuck a new sensor in there somewhere, new gauge on the dash and just not rely on any oem sensor, wiring, or gauges. 

[joshuaho96]

On 5/21/2022 at 4:59 PM, Chopstick Tuner said:

Well he mentioned adding oil temp sensor also, so adding an additional gauge means he has no choice to but to find a way to fit an extra sensor in there. 

But as for your question, convenience is the likely answer. Seems easy to just chuck a new sensor in there somewhere, new gauge on the dash and just not rely on any oem sensor, wiring, or gauges. 

I was visualizing a splitter like this so you can just run wires to your ECU/gauge/etc without chopping up a harness or something like that, the important part is to get as close to infinite impedance as possible on the new wiring so as not to disturb the existing electronics that need that sensor as well:

 

[Chopstick Tuner]

On 22/05/2022 at 10:04 AM, joshuaho96 said:

I was visualizing a splitter like this so you can just run wires to your ECU/gauge/etc without chopping up a harness or something like that, the important part is to get as close to infinite impedance as possible on the new wiring so as not to disturb the existing electronics that need that sensor as well:

 

Now I get ya, interesting. Would you put an aftermarket sensor in and bin the oem one, then use that sensor to do your factory gauge as well as a new gauge or ecu input? 

Because I considered getting rid of oem one but didn't want the oil light on the dash, or to bridge the factory wires. 

[joshuaho96]

On 5/21/2022 at 5:15 PM, Chopstick Tuner said:

Now I get ya, interesting. Would you put an aftermarket sensor in and bin the oem one, then use that sensor to do your factory gauge as well as a new gauge or ecu input? 

Because I considered getting rid of oem one but didn't want the oil light on the dash, or to bridge the factory wires. 

In this scenario you'd have to keep the OEM sensor, presumably it would be easier to rig up something to test the calibration of your sensor and put that calibration in your standalone ECU/dash/etc compared to adjusting the calibration of the factory gauges to suit a new aftermarket sensor. This only makes sense though if the factory sensor is actually good enough to use. For example the OEM RB26 IAT sensor is really a coolant temperature sensor so it's useless for speed density because it takes so long to react.

[ggub]

On 22/05/2022 at 8:13 AM, Duncan said:

That is a good diagram, but it doesn't show where the temp sender is (and it is kind of a moot point since you are looking for rb25 not rb26). It does show the filter is the last thing before the main oil gallery which makes sense, you want the oil to be cleanest when it enters the engine.

You are right, the oil warmer is of use in cold climates in the morning, although the alternative is just to go easy until the oil is up to temp (which is of course what you would do anyway), I don't know how much difference it makes in warm up time. 

The reason I like the relocator kit is that it both gives a great place for oil senders, and lets you move the filter somewhere nice (whether that is for you or a mechanic). You don't need to do an oil cooler at the same time but it makes it easier if you decide to later (you just run the out from the engine to the oil cooler, and the other oil cooler port to the in on the filter mount)

An oil sandwich block can also work but has 2 problems compared to relocating. 1 they are generally screw mount (using the oil filter thread) so you need to make sure they are done up tight and stay done up tight. 2 they space the oil filter out (say 20mm? depending on model) which can make it VERY tight for a decent sized oil filter, and for the hand/tools that are changing the oil filter

True.

You are right that I'd take it easy until things are warm regardless of whether I retain the heater. In my searching through the forums prior to starting this thread I feel like I saw someone say that they had experienced much longer warm up times after the deletion of their heater but I can't seem to find it again. Either way I suppose that's only one anecdotal account.

I too like the idea of the relocator kit, especially since the factory location is a bit messy during oil changes. I much prefer cars doin them on cars with upside down filters that have no other bits between the filter and the ground. As I said, the only thing that concerns me is whether the heater delete is a worthy trade-off.

Good point regarding clearance around the filter with the addition of a sandwich plate. I hadn't considered that.

 

For context, my primary aim is to measure oil pressure for the purposes of engine protection. I just figured that it was probably worth chucking in oil temperature if I'm going to the effort of adding a bunch of other sensors to the engine when I install my Haltech.

[2pee]

On 5/20/2022 at 10:50 PM, Ben C34 said:

How does tapered thread factor in at all?

Any examples or just theory ?

It was common knowledge at one stage - maybe not anymore judging by the response. Most recent one I can think was a mate's dyno room probably 5 years ago, cursing a customer's twink that made a nice mess on the floor and walls.

Big lever arm on a small NPT, BSPT, BSPP, whatever, it doesn't really matter.......poor wording on my part.

[ggub]

In case someone comes across this thread in the future looking for the same/similar info: Raceworks part number RWF-809-02SS is too long and you can't connect the factory loom back onto the factory sensor.