efr9180 choking?

[GTSBoy]

On 6/3/2022 at 11:07 AM, Predator1 said:

Yes, I was also advised about the stock bov, so I upgraded to the TurboSmart one. I have no idea whether its leaking though??? How heck would I test?

Blank it off.

 

[GTSBoy]

Problem with both your matchbots is the ambient air temp is set to 20. Fahrenheit. Pretty chilly. Has a 10% effect on the power!!!!

[Lithium]

On 03/06/2022 at 3:37 PM, GTSBoy said:

Problem with both your matchbots is the ambient air temp is set to 20. Fahrenheit. Pretty chilly. Has a 10% effect on the power!!!!

Jesus I didn't notice he'd set it to that, lol.

https://www.borgwarner.com/go/960S5I

Set air density to something more Aucklandy

[Predator1]

On 03/06/2022 at 3:32 PM, Lithium said:

Worth mentioning that you probably have bigger cams/better VE than the default numbers in matchbot, and it seems that you're revving it to at least 7500rpm so probably should update the rpm scale to suit the max rpm at least.  I had a super fast rough fiddle with the settings, take with a grain of salt but I'd guess slightly closer to reality for your car currently:

https://www.borgwarner.com/go/JMZZ59

 

My rev limit is 8k if that helps or makes things worse.

 

On 03/06/2022 at 3:48 PM, Lithium said:

Jesus I didn't notice he'd set it to that, lol.

https://www.borgwarner.com/go/960S5I

Set air density to something more Aucklandy

Oops, Yeah i forgot to set that in F. Also, I updated the elevation to around 650ft.

Still that estimates my shaft speeds to around 92k. Doesn't sound right? Might be worth noting perhaps that I have a Greddy 4 inch intake(as in Motive Video). My fmic has 3.5inch intake and outlet, and the turbo has a 2.5inch outlet, so my fabricator I had to use cones to adapt. I really dont see my exhaust being a restriction as its 4 inch all the way through, and I dont have a cat.. Only 1 muffler at exit.

Im using the Link 3 port MAC valve too if that makes any difference - I did look at the 4 port but not sure whether that would make any difference in my case.

Is it possible to choke the exhaust with such a relatively low shaft speed?

[Piggaz]

You have NO idea what shaft speed you’re at. I would bet you’re a lot higher than what you’re thinking. 
You’re making 560 kw on weed killer dinosaur soup. Guys here in Aus are hard going making 600 kw with e85 with a 9180. There is no problem here.

I could be wrong but I’m going to outlay those cards. Report back with a speed sensor.

[RB335]

I ran a 9180 1.05 at same boost at you on a 2.8 with ported and oversize head, it was maxxed out.  Yes E85 helps a lot.    Switched to 9280 front wheel, made a little bit more power but wasn't worth it

 

Edited June 4, 2022 by RB335

[Predator1]

On 5/6/2022 at 7:47 AM, RB335 said:

I ran a 9180 1.05 at same boost at you on a 2.8 with ported and oversize head, it was maxxed out.  Yes E85 helps a lot.    Switched to 9280 front wheel, made a little bit more power but wasn't worth it

 

Mind if I ask how much work it was to swap the wheels?

 

also, what sort of power did you make on 98/e85?

[BK]

Precision 6870 time possibly ?

[Lithium]

On 04/06/2022 at 11:01 AM, Predator1 said:

Is it possible to choke the exhaust with such a relatively low shaft speed?

Your bolt on mods you describe all sound fine so long as nothing is leaking or blocked.  A relatively low shaft speed (as @Piggazsaid and I've alluded to above - I suspect it's higher than you think) isn't going to choke it.   If anything the Borg turbos turbine aero is better suited to lower speed operation

Blocking off the BOV or cleaning it could help rule out if anything is jamming it open and causing a leak.  One way or another you aren't likely to have massive headroom with that turbo but ethanol may pick up quite a bit.

As I had mentioned above, if you are kinda hoping for bigger numbers I suspect the likes of a Garrett (Or Pulsar copy of haha) G40 1150 would be a pretty interesting option.  There's not anything that is going to beat the 9180 numbers without sacrificing response

 

 

 

 

[hypergear]

You find EFR turbine explodes into a million pieces once they over speed (while Garrett's snaps turbine head right off the shaft). Good idea to install a speed sensor and monitor rotor speed. Upsize comp wheel is relatively easy, install new front wheel, balance the chra, then profile and machine front housing.   

Edited June 6, 2022 by hypergear

[Predator1]

On 07/06/2022 at 2:01 AM, hypergear said:

You find EFR turbine explodes into a million pieces once they over speed (while Garrett's snaps turbine head right off the shaft). Good idea to install a speed sensor and monitor rotor speed. Upsize comp wheel is relatively easy, install new front wheel, balance the chra, then profile and machine front housing.   

I just called a few local spots here and they said they dont have a listing for the wheels, just the supercores and housings?
How would I go abouts sourcing just the compressor wheel?

[RICE RACING]

On 6/1/2022 at 12:56 PM, Predator1 said:

Hi guys,

I recently had my car re tuned for a few reasons, and we decided to put some timing and boost. It made some good power for starters. It made 450kw on 14psi, and 565 on 25~ (rwkw for now).

On high boost, the tuner was concerned with the IAT's sky rocketing every pull. I saw the temps going from 40-65C on every run. This only happened on high boost. I was very shocked, as the turbo's not running alot of boost. The tuner had no idea why this was happening. He didn't have a pressure gauge that he could stick on the exhaust(I have a spare port). The IAT is is located on the intake piping just before the plenum, and is the Bosch high resolution sensor.

At this point, I'd like to think the turbo's running out of puff, or being choked, but how?! I didn't have a speed sensor installed back then. The 9180 with 1.05 housing is rated to 1000 flywheel hp, but I'm only making 820hp, or 612kw.

The car is an absolute weapon, and I've only used high boost a handful of times, but I'd like to sort this issue out as no point doing ethanol tune so far.

Looking at the compressor map, with the given boost of 24-25psi, I have a pressure ratio of 2.8.

I was working out my flow rates, so something like 1lb/min = 10hp, so in my case, I'd be consuming around 82lbs/min?

If I plot that on the compressor map it seems I'm sitting very close to the choke line? Could I really be choking the turbo with only 25psi? Perhaps if someone knows more about compressor maps could chime in and shed some light?

 

 

Here's some pics of the dyno pull

 

Here's my setup:

 

RIPS Built 3.2 - From what I can calc, its a 8.3:1 cr
New RB26 Head CNC ported
286/278 degree cams
EFR9180 with 1.05 exhaust housing
60mm Turbosmart w/g
6Boost manifold(standard thickness, not the thick ones)
4 inch dump, no cat, just 1 muffler - The whole exhaust if 4 inches in diameter
Hypertune G2 FMIC. Unsure of exact sizes but its around 115mm thick.
 

If any of you guru's could perhaps shed some light?

There is some pretty shit comments in here LOL mostly from kuntz who A) never built a similar set up or B) Never worked on one.

 

LOL as the hobby turbo maker commenting on EFR9180's over speeding and "exploding"

 

We run them regularly over the catalogue speed ratings but as the engineers at BW told me you need to know what you are doing, but there is a decent over speed margin on them.

 

The issue you will have is the 3.2lt engine, the map/tip ratio will be problematic and it will adversely effect the power on the 1.05AR, which we have run. If you go a 1.45 the response on the in line 6 cylinder will be garbage which is not the fault of the turbo its more a function of the firing order and packaging problems in the Datsun shitbox.

 

Feel free to email me if you want some real knowledge on this rather than forum guesses and paragraphs of BS from pretenders

[Shoota_77]

On 7/6/2022 at 8:05 PM, RICE RACING said:

There is some pretty shit comments in here LOL mostly from kuntz who A) never built a similar set up or B) Never worked on one.

 

LOL as the hobby turbo maker commenting on EFR9180's over speeding and "exploding"

 

We run them regularly over the catalogue speed ratings but as the engineers at BW told me you need to know what you are doing, but there is a decent over speed margin on them.

 

The issue you will have is the 3.2lt engine, the map/tip ratio will be problematic and it will adversely effect the power on the 1.05AR, which we have run. If you go a 1.45 the response on the in line 6 cylinder will be garbage which is not the fault of the turbo its more a function of the firing order and packaging problems in the Datsun shitbox.

 

Feel free to email me if you want some real knowledge on this rather than forum guesses and paragraphs of BS from pretenders

God you’re a flog.  All of your useful comments are made redundant as you’re just such a wanker.  You could be the most knowledgeable bloke on here but because you’re also the most unlikeable your comments are as useful as watered down piss. 

[BK]

On 07/06/2022 at 7:54 PM, Shoota_77 said:

God you’re a flog.  All of your useful comments are made redundant as you’re just such a wanker.  You could be the most knowledgeable bloke on here but because you’re also the most unlikeable your comments are as useful as watered down piss. 

I think you're about to get a lot of likes 😄

[admS15]

[Predator1]

Ok guys lets not de-rail this thread. I appreciate all feedback. I'm not about to over-speed my turbo, esp after all the money I've thrown in this thing.

I will report back once I have my box in, along with the speed sensor amongst others. Keen to hear about the additional power it makes with a compressor upgrade though. I've asked a few places for prices, so will update once I hear back re.

Thanks all.

 

Edit - So one of them just called me back advising that BW dont sell the compressor wheels seperately, soo. @hyper-gear How would I source a 9280 compressor wheel, plus, will the 9180 compressor housing physically fit the wheel, I assume it will need some additional clearance?

Edited June 7, 2022 by Predator1

[Piggaz]

Of course the front housing needs to be modified. The wheel is different in size.

[hypergear]

Check to see what KTX has to offer. You will want it to stay the same bore size and similar wheel height that has slightly bigger inducer. I do shaft balancing, custom housing profile and machining if u want to drop / send them in when ready. 

Edited June 8, 2022 by hypergear

[RB335]

You can purchase a 9280 rotating assembly and front cover, the existing rear housing from your 9180 will fit and clear.  A lot of care needs to be taken when removing the turbine housing

[BK]

On 09/06/2022 at 2:44 AM, RB335 said:

You can purchase a 9280 rotating assembly and front cover, the existing rear housing from your 9180 will fit and clear.  A lot of care needs to be taken when removing the turbine 

Which is essentially just buying another turbo without exhaust housing, referred to as a "super core".