Billet Blocks - Oiling ?

[Ben C34]

At least with a billet block if the car gets stolen it will seize up down the road.

[Butters]

I drive mine weekly(when its working haha) and sometimes to work. The loud car in the carpark is already a thing, idling it would be the next amusement for people. Also who wants to stay at work longer than they have to. 

 

*off to understand oil pre-heaters ....google time. 

[r32-25t]

On 23/7/2022 at 12:57 PM, joshuaho96 said:

I can't imagine idling a car for 10 minutes any time I want to go somewhere but I'm not really the target audience for a billet block anyways.

It’s not that hard to waste 10 minutes. Start the car, open the garage, move the car that’s in front of it, remove bollards, check oil temperature gauge and you’ll be pretty close 

[Murray_Calavera]

I'll just leave this here 

 

[Butters]

Sooooo I re-watched this video and I have questions ....

 

On a second watch this really does look like a video beat up of N1 and sales pitch for braces.

 

The N1 block is claimed (my understanding)

>Have 1mm thicker deck - Confirmed in video

>Have higher Nickel content ... not addressed

>Be stronger around cylinder 3 and 4 - not addressed other than visual inspection 

>Have modified internal water and oil passages for better flow - not addressed other than visual inspection

 

The video did claim it was less hard, which I thought would suggest it has nickel, as nickel is less hard than cast steel ?

Does hardness really stop a block cracking ?  or is metallurgy a thing here ?

I would of thought a hardness test of a billet block would be 30% less than a cast ?

 

Also not aware that N1 was ever supposed to be thicker cylinder walls, so that is expected to be the same.

 

THOUGHTS ???

 

 

 

[GTSBoy]

On 7/26/2022 at 2:53 PM, Butters said:

The video did claim it was less hard, which I thought would suggest it has nickel, as nickel is less hard than cast steel ?

Hardness is really not an indicator of compressive or tensile strength. It is somewhat inversely proportional to toughness in that harder materials are usually more brittle. This is one of the key complaints I have with the idea of hardness testing cast iron blocks to determine how "good" they are.

Further, just because there is a different proportion of a given element in a cast iron (yes, iron, not steel) doesn't necessarily mean that any of the mechanical properties of the resulting cast iron will scale up and down in the same direction as the mechanical properties of the element. One of the whole points of alloys is that the alloying elements often to interesting and unexpected things when combined into the crystal matrix. Nevertheless, pure metallic nickel is about 1000 Brinell and typical grey cast irons are about 250 Brinell. So, Ni is not softer than cast iron. Addition of nickel can close on double the hardness of cast irons - if hardness is what you are after. The problem is that nickel is also used to increase high temperature resistance of cast irons, and when you do so, it tends to decrease the hardness. So ask yourself....why would Nissan add more Ni to the cast iron spec for the N1 block?

I would suggest that hardness is not necessarily the most desirable property of a cast iron in an engine block application. Tensile strength and toughness would be higher on the list. Tensile strength only inasmuch as it contributes to the stiffness of the finished casting. The properties relating to castability (how it flows, etc) would likely also be higher. Vibration resistance is an inherent property of cast iron that you would not likely choose to reduce.

On 7/26/2022 at 2:53 PM, Butters said:

I would of thought a hardness test of a billet block would be 30% less than a cast ?

Well, with a billet block being made from aluminium alloys, like 6061, which is only around 100 Brinell. So....

[RB335]

On 7/26/2022 at 1:23 PM, Butters said:

Sooooo I re-watched this video and I have questions ....

 

On a second watch this really does look like a video beat up of N1 and sales pitch for braces.

 

The N1 block is claimed (my understanding)

>Have 1mm thicker deck - Confirmed in video

>Have higher Nickel content ... not addressed

>Be stronger around cylinder 3 and 4 - not addressed other than visual inspection 

>Have modified internal water and oil passages for better flow - not addressed other than visual inspection

 

The video did claim it was less hard, which I thought would suggest it has nickel, as nickel is less hard than cast steel ?

Does hardness really stop a block cracking ?  or is metallurgy a thing here ?

I would of thought a hardness test of a billet block would be 30% less than a cast ?

 

Also not aware that N1 was ever supposed to be thicker cylinder walls, so that is expected to be the same.

 

THOUGHTS ???

 

 

 

At one point Mr Dodge made a comment on his page saying that the N1 blocks are worst than 05U's. 

I asked an open question simply from curiosity and wanting to learn, for every handful of N1's or 05U's how many of them crack he got angry and messaged me in a split second demanding I don't ask baited questions 

The N1 block was made for cars competing in the N1 Endurance racing series, with a budget to go top level racing so surely some thought went into it regarding what material to use or input of someone clued up. 

If you goto a place that has build hundreds of 26's and you want high power likely they spec an N1 block.   

There are a few guys who have had a PRP brace on 05U's and ended up with exterior cracks, how well the brace helps a brand new 05U block though, perhaps there's some merit to it.  When I went to build my engine, given an 05U $3500 plus $1500 Brace plus machining plus shop labour, fitting your not really too far off a N1 block price.  

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by RB335

[Butters]

Yes @GTSBoy iron, sorry not sure what was going on in my brain.  Thanks for your reply, good info. 

I thought iron was 4.5 on Mohs and Nickel 4, making it slightly less hard. Appreciate that is considered a less reliable way of measuring hardness. 

[r32-25t]

I have a mate that cracked the deck on an n1 block and it was the original type not the heritage 

[khezz]

The main lesson in that video is that RB30 is king. $500 a through. Stronger, harder, stiffer and there is no replacement for displacement. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by khezz

[niZmO_Man]

yeahhh 31 number 1

[PLYNX]

On 7/26/2022 at 9:26 PM, khezz said:

The main lesson in that video is that RB30 is king. $500 a through. Stronger, harder, stiffer and there is no replacement for displacement. 

Yes there is ! Its called money.

I used to think that the "there is no replacement for displacement" was a groovy statement in the day but then I got exposed to the F1 Honda engines of the mid to late 80s.

Changed the way I thought a lot !

[khezz]

On 27/7/2022 at 4:44 AM, PLYNX said:

Yes there is ! Its called money.

I used to think that the "there is no replacement for displacement" was a groovy statement in the day but then I got exposed to the F1 Honda engines of the mid to late 80s.

Changed the way I thought a lot !

Love those old F1 videos. Those drivers had balls. 
 

displacement is still king. All 3 of the 6 second gtrs in Australia use 3.2l engines not 2.6l

[GTSBoy]

Yes, because no-one has has the money required to do it with 2.6L.

[khezz]

Don’t know about money. It’s just easier with a 3.2. Look at top fuellers. They use the biggest displacement allowed. No shortage of cash there or brains. But it’s just easier with a bigger motor. 

[Butters]

So this was a fun watch.

Seems a lot of value in an N1 block over a standard, specially for the power levels that are not going to split bores(1200 + ?) .

It does make you really question the value of a brace.

 

 

[r32-25t]

He stated the bores are still the problem in the n1 block, it’s the deck and the cracking above the turbo oil feed that’s been improved, also the brace is to stop the main girdle from walking 

[Butters]

23 minutes ago, r32-25t said:

He stated the bores are still the problem in the n1 block, it’s the deck and the cracking above the turbo oil feed that’s been improved, also the brace is to stop the main girdle from walking 

He has stated in previous video that the brace was built for 4wd adaptions. Then they noticed blocks crack less. Yes walk is it's feature but also this from the PRP site. 

"Aftermarket diffs crack blocks! it’s a fact, the Platinum Block brace will not only stop block twist, but stops the diff snapping the block under load, energy is dissipated through your 40mm thick integrated and webbed brace, blocks cracking and snapping become a thing of the past!"

[r32-25t]

If the n1 block fixes the deck and external cracking issues then the only thing the brace is doing to stopping the girdle from walking 

[GTSBoy]

My takeaway from the last 2 videos is that you should sleeve an RB block before it splits the bore!