Advice on setup for R34 GTR 600-700awhp RELIABLE

[bigboss59400]

Hi,

I need your advice for my new setup for my r34 gtr
The goal is 600-700AWHP RELIABLE with E85 and standard service meaning I don't want to dissasemble something after 2000kms
Mostly the car will be used on the street however I would like to do some trackdays too without compromise

"Money is not really the problem", the objective is to match the best part for my objective.

What do you think of the following parts to achieve my goal ?

VCAM step pro                                     
hks exhaust cam 264 10.2mm                                
hks springs
OEM valves
rb26 head ported with some machining for the bigger HKS cams
drain oil and water at the back
oil restrictor    
Should I buy TOMEI lifter and machine down 0.5 to use stock size of shims ? or can I just use bigger shims ?
                                    
ASNU 1500CC with single feed rail                                                        
2x bosch 525 with AN12
G35-1050 TS with 6boost manifold                        
6x EGT texense with EGT to can from ecumaster
                    
bosh DBW + 350z gas pedal + plazman plenum                    

AIM MXP strada                                    
Link ECU fury X

new stock 05U block + PRP brace main cap or should I go BILLET + brace ? but I don't think that's necessary
nitto stroker kit 2.8 with wide bearing V2 or nitto stoker kit 2.7 V1                     
                                    
transfer case rebuild (also swapping some plate disc by abbrasive one)            
gearbox rebuild + added billet central case                    
xtrem dual clutch ceramic
Quaife front diff
tomei power extrem exhaust with custom downpipe to match the exhaust manifold

water koyorad
1x or 2x spal fans

oil engine cooler (passager side)                         
front diff oil cooler (driver side)                        
r35 gtr alternator with custom bracket                                
ross performance gold serie damper with crank trigger kit            
                                
washer tank replaced by oil catch tank + washer                    
ARC intercooler M073 (if temp is too high I will switch to M079; I found a used one rather cheap...)
r35 gtr ignition coils

supertec spline drive with which oil pump ? or nitto sine oil pump ?
oil extension sump, I have a preference for supertec but there are quite a few other options : RIPS, hi octane, leakspec...

compression ratio 9.0 ? or should I go a bit lower ?

Chassis is already done (r35 brake, DFV ohlins, all new bushes (superpro) )

THanks for your time !

[Duncan]

well, since you want 3x factory power, reliable for track use and money no object, you need to have a dry sump oiling system instead of the factory one. everything else you listed will have less impact on your goal than a dry sump.

you didn't mention what size radiator, but you will want a nice thick one. Also you mention engine oil cooler but not what size, you will need a larger cooler than you can fit in the front wheel well.  Finally, the transfer case is more likely to need a cooler than front diff which you listed, rear diff or gearbox but the best way to tell would be to run temp sensors in each for a few track days to see if you have a problem.

 

[joshuaho96]

Transfer case cooler is probably most likely to be required, I've known people that have had issues with it getting hot and locking up just from extended highway/expressway driving.

[bigboss59400]

Thanks for your reply guys !

 

Dry sump is the BEST solution I agree however it add some complexity, integration is also harder (I don't like to have a hot oil tank in the boot or in the rear seat), pre heat is quite necessary too, I don't like to have some oil lines going under the car ...

That's why I would like to stay with a wet sump but with an accusump located under the plenum (I need to check if it's fit)

The accusump will be control by the ECU.

I have also an idea to put an oil level sensor as close as possible to the oil pick up and log it with the ECU...

What do you think with this solution ?

 

I went with a koyorad I believe it's 50mm or so (with one big or 2 small fans)

Yes I will go for the bigger oil engine rad possible with custom duct in the front passenger side wheel well.

I can't find back right now but there is somewhere a post with some detailled pictures...

 

Indeed ! That's a good point to log the temperature and see which element I should add a cooler(s), if so I will stack them in the front driver side wheel well.

Dumb question; I will need a small electrical pump to circulate the oil for such elements ?

What ideal and max temp should I go for front, rear diff, transfer case and gearbox ?

 

Best regards

[Piggaz]

On 17/7/2022 at 11:13 AM, joshuaho96 said:

Transfer case cooler is probably most likely to be required, I've known people that have had issues with it getting hot and locking up just from extended highway/expressway driving.

I find that hard to believe. What is arguably the least stressful driving situation, you have issues with fluid getting hot. If that was the case, as soon as you started to make the transfer case work through a hill run or something similar, you’d have issues which is not a common issue. 

[joshuaho96]

On 7/17/2022 at 12:11 PM, Piggaz said:

I find that hard to believe. What is arguably the least stressful driving situation, you have issues with fluid getting hot. If that was the case, as soon as you started to make the transfer case work through a hill run or something similar, you’d have issues which is not a common issue. 

https://www.gtrusablog.com/2019/06/nissan-skyline-hot-shifter-hot.html?m=1
 

If you drive gently and you pay attention to finer details like making sure the tires have all the same diameter it’s not an issue. But even if you do take care of that if you’re regularly driving for hours like you’re on an unlimited autobahn for YouTube clicks then it is possible to get some binding and weirdness from the transfer case. I have had some people in my area mention running into this problem. Whether it’s because they need new tires or something more fundamental I couldn’t tell you. 

[GTSBoy]

On 7/18/2022 at 3:19 AM, joshuaho96 said:

https://www.gtrusablog.com/2019/06/nissan-skyline-hot-shifter-hot.html?m=1
 

If you drive gently and you pay attention to finer details like making sure the tires have all the same diameter it’s not an issue. But even if you do take care of that if you’re regularly driving for hours like you’re on an unlimited autobahn for YouTube clicks then it is possible to get some binding and weirdness from the transfer case. I have had some people in my area mention running into this problem. Whether it’s because they need new tires or something more fundamental I couldn’t tell you. 

Why does this happen in the USA and not elsewhere in the 30 years we've had these cars?

[Kinkstaah]

An accusump does not need any ECU or electricals to control it, it is purely mechanical in nature with regard to how it responds to oil pressure loss situations.

[joshuaho96]

On 7/17/2022 at 3:44 PM, GTSBoy said:

Why does this happen in the USA and not elsewhere in the 30 years we've had these cars?

Didn't the official AU market R32 GTR get a transfer case cooler? Probably overkill for most people but some engineer somewhere decided it was necessary in some operating conditions and somehow everyone was convinced this was important enough to make a special modification for it.

[GTSBoy]

The GTR was a monster that was born under the sea in Japan. The climate there is not as.....bakingly hot as it is here in Oz. The local Nissan engineers, and in particular the guys who wanted to homologate the GTR to race it here, wanted to make sure they weren't going to suffer any heat related problems.

All the grey import GTRs are sans these coolers and do not suffer too many problems. Almost no-one ever thrashes a GTR to the point where it becomes an issue. You'd need to be leaning on the car very hard in fairly hot conditions.

Not saying that there are no GTRs out there that had been used in this fashion and needed coolers added. Just saying that it is not the #1 problem. Not even the #10 problem.

[Duncan]

Transfer case temp is definitely an issue in hard track use, eg enduros or long rally stages

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Some of my comments below, please don't take offence as it's just constructive criticism.

                          
hks springs
No, don't do it. They don't even tell you the seat pressure.
                                                
2x bosch 525 with AN12
Why on earth do you even need 12AN? You're not fuelling it with Methanol, 8AN is enough, heck 10AN if you want to burn money. Also for circuit racing I would go a surge tank setup instead of having twin intake pumps.

tomei power extrem exhaust with custom downpipe to match the exhaust manifold
No, just go custom the whole way. We all know the Japanese exhausts always include silly step downs or restrictors in them so they're "JASMA" certified for noise.

1x or 2x spal fans
Don't bother, OEM fan OEM shroud for track use is the best 
                                
washer tank replaced by oil catch tank + washer
Also drain it back to your sump for circuit use, high chance it will fill with big boost & power then you'll suck your sump dry and bin a motor (ask me how I know lol) 

supertec spline drive with which oil pump ? or nitto sine oil pump ?
No, just go Nitto oil pump. Don't muck about with gears that slot into original housing. 

compression ratio 9.0 ? or should I go a bit lower ?
It's not 2002 anymore, high comp, E85 or WMI, with modern ECUs you can accurately tune load cells with precision and run engine protection strategies to keep it together. It's not PowerFC days anymore.

[Murray_Calavera]

The dry sump tank can be install in the engine bay, this might be some inspiration for you - 

https://jordanleist.com/2018/06/15/the-power-and-the-passion-an-1181rwhp-nissan-r32-gtr/

[joshuaho96]

On 7/17/2022 at 7:02 PM, Murray_Calavera said:

The dry sump tank can be install in the engine bay, this might be some inspiration for you - 

https://jordanleist.com/2018/06/15/the-power-and-the-passion-an-1181rwhp-nissan-r32-gtr/

Quite a lot had to be removed to make room for that dry sump tank though, I dunno if I'd call that practical. For me to go dry sump I'd want it to be able to fit into an otherwise stock engine bay with no deletes or chopping up the chassis/discontinued parts. Until then I suspect the best I can do is try all the PCV tricks suggested in the oil control thread.

[bigboss59400]

Thanks a lot guys for your reply

I will not quote otherwise my post will became a roman

 

@Kinkstaah  indeed but  it's so much better to have an electrical valve connected to the ECU so that you can have some strategy (I put the links of the interested pictures otherwise you need to be a paid member...)

https://www.hpacademy.com/forum/general-tuning-discussion/show/ecu-controlled-accusump-valve

https://www.hpacademy.com/assets/forum/attachments/e3487c8da2/Accusump-GP-limit-active.jpg

https://www.hpacademy.com/assets/forum/attachments/8dde21111e/AccusumpLinkG4.jpg

https://www.hpacademy.com/assets/forum/attachments/65b71c39b4/AccusumpStandalone.jpg

 

I'm keeping the hicas for the moment so no room I think for a cooler on the rear (like on the r32 gtr)

I will have a big capacity cover for the rear diff

What are the ideal and max temp for gearbox, transfer case, rear and front diff ?

 

I agree with you (Joshua) regarding the location of the dry sump tank (Murray_Calavera but thanks for the tips)

 

Additional information, I'm not planning to high reviving the engine, I'm fine with 8000

 

@Dose Pipe Sutututu that's the goal of my topic so no offense taken at all it's the opposite in fact

- Fuel

To be honest I didn't perform calculation (yet) regarding the loss of pressure in the line, that's why I put 12AN...

Well I will stuck with the intake pumps (I already bought them...) for the moment as I wanted to keep the boot "clean" but if I see issue I will change plan there and put a surge tank.

- Valves

I think they didn't specify because they don't intend to sell them if you are not using their camshaft ?

And since I will be using their camshafts I supposed that's the right thing to do ? or am I missing something ?

- Fans

Problem is I'm not sure I will have enough room to keep the OEM fan and shroud with the ticker rad and the AC being move forward due to the ross damper...

I guess I need to see when I will be there

- Exhaust

I agree and the half exhaust power extrem tomei doesn't have restriction

So remaining "only" the other half.

- washer tank replaced by oil catch tank + washer

Thanks !!!

- supertec spline drive with which oil pump ? or nitto sine oil pump ?

Well they are also making these spline gears for TOMEI, JUN,HKS, N1, NISMO...

But looks like NITTO is the way to go ?

 

Remaining questions :

- new stock 05U block + PRP brace main cap or should I go BILLET + brace ? (I don't think billet is necessary here)

- nitto stroker kit 2.8 with wide bearing V2 or nitto stoker kit 2.7 V1 ? I prefer to have a 2.7 stroker but I like the idea of wider bearing...                   

- Considering HKS cam are 31mm base, should I buy TOMEI lifter and machine down 0.5 to use stock size of shims ? or can I just use bigger shims ?

I'm afraid of popping shim out with bigger shims ?

 

I appreciate a lot your feedback keep going

[BK]

On 18/07/2022 at 9:14 PM, bigboss59400 said:

the half exhaust power extrem tomei doesn't have restriction

I think you'll find the muffler is the ridiculously big restriction right @Piggaz

Also stock valves and shims are fine, but smaller base circle cams mean different lifters so you don't run too thick shims.

Also you cannot use standard rad fan with a Ross race or gold damper and A/C relocation - you need to use the Metal Jacket to retain factory fan and no a/c relocation.

I tested and measured this for Ross on the 33 (same as 34) and 32 - it moves the belt forward 25mm and you only have about 12mm - 15mm to play with, so no go.

Just run the current metal jacket damper, I do - it will suffice for your power levels.

[Piggaz]

Why buy a Japanese exhaust only to use half of it? It’s not 2003. Get a custom one made and do it right. It’ll sit higher, fit better, be quieter with the correct mufflers used, flow better. You just won’t have the shopping list sticker to put on the front guard but I’m sure you could buy them separately.

A jap exhaust makes NO sense.

[BK]

On 19/07/2022 at 10:26 AM, Piggaz said:

Why buy a Japanese exhaust only to use half of it? It’s not 2003. Get a custom one made and do it right. It’ll sit higher, fit better, be quieter with the correct mufflers used, flow better. You just won’t have the shopping list sticker to put on the front guard but I’m sure you could buy them separately.

A jap exhaust makes NO sense.

From memory wasn't your Tomei muffler about 60mm inside ?

[Piggaz]

On 19/7/2022 at 11:08 AM, BK said:

From memory wasn't your Tomei muffler about 60mm inside ?

Kakimoto Full Mega N1 was a peanut. Removed that for an Aussie made twin 3 inch and it made more power with less pressure on smaller turbos.

I’ve had a look at one of those tomei nuggets which was on an evo… same thing just a different brand. It’s garbage.

 

[BK]

On 19/07/2022 at 10:49 AM, Piggaz said:

Kakimoto Full Mega N1 was a peanut. Removed that for an Aussie made twin 3 inch and it made more power with less pressure on smaller turbos.

I could probably dig up the photo somewhere but I’m not going to.

I’ve had a look at one of those tomei nuggets which was on an evo… same thing just a different brand. It’s garbage.

Even Xforce is no good. On our white 32 it's a true custom 3.5 inch system with an Xforce 3.5inch muffler, and it still steps down (not as bad as Jap stuff) inside to about 70mm - 75mm ! Needs to go...

My blue 32 has a true AES 4 inch internal muffler - I can stick my arm through it !

Interestly though on my 33 the HKS old school Hi Power muffler is 95mm internally, but the restriction at around 70mm was at the now deleted resonator.

Moral of story is as you said - go custom.