Thoughts on acceptable street tyre wear rates

[Murray_Calavera]

I've got 2 sets of wheels, both my track and street rears came up for replacement at the same time. I popped 120 treadwear NS2R on the track set and have been using them on the street. 

So now I'm in an awkward spot, I really like them on the street, even in the wet but that rate at which they are wearing, I'll probably only get about 7500km of street use out of them.

So now I'm torn, do I just accept that wear rate or should I pop something like some RS4's on the street set, or maybe try the 180 treadwear version of the NS2R....

What wear rate are you happy to accept for street tyres?

[GTSBoy]

I seldom get more than 10k out of a set and have sometimes dipped into the 5s.

[PranK]

I'm running Federal 595s on my street wheels ATM but that said I work from home and don't usually do more that 750ks per month so they last long enough from a time basis for me. I love them and also good in the wet. I used to run rs4s but couldn't get them in my new size and felt the same about them, even though they saw the track a few times they seemed to hold up quite well but I got rid of them before they died so I don't know how many ks they would have done.

[joshuaho96]

~35,000 km is about right for PSS/street-oriented summer tires. Personally for track tires I would probably run something like the Ventus RS4s purely out of concern for the limits of a wet sump engine.

[robbo_rb180]

How much street driving? Daily driver or weekender with odd week day?

My daily I'm happy with 15000km with odd fun day at a motorkhana/sprint. Currently on Michelin ps4s

Thought about going to nankang crs for track tyres?

[Murray_Calavera]

It's a weekender + track stuff. It varies, but I'd say I do about 10,000KM a year. 

I'm priced out of CRS completely. I got a quote for CRS when I was picking up the NS2R...

CRS in size 275/35/17.... $435 

Can't get NS2R in that same size, but I paid $265 for 255/40/17

Here is a good apple / apple comparison. 

https://sleekaspares.com.au/product/255-40r17-nankang-ns2r-semi-slick-tyre-120-180tw/

https://sleekaspares.com.au/product/25540r17-nankang-cr-s-competition-semi-slick-200tw/

I don't know how long the CRS would last on the street, even though they are "200 tw" they are a faster tyre then the NS2R, so I would expect they would have an even shorter life expectancy. 

15,000km sounds pretty good to me. The more I think about it, the more I think that's where I'd want to be for my street tyres. I think it's bothering me that the tyres won't even last the year.

[Duncan]

With a low use, high power car like my Stagea  I go the grippiest tyre without the noise and tramlining of a semi slick. The tyre might only last 15,000klm, but you don't really notice if it takes 5 years to get there. Plus, there's no point driving round on crappy tyres and spinning wheels every time you hit boost.

It is very hard to work out what a good high performance street tyre is though....every brand is happy to sell a super expensive "ultra performance" tyre, but where would you find an unbiased comparison of them? 

[r32-25t]

My next set of tyres on the gtr will probably be a set of ad09, I’ve currently got a set of ad08r on there and are being replaced because they’ve gotten to old not because they wore out 

[robbo_rb180]

  On 22/01/2023 at 5:33 AM, Murray_Calavera said:

It's a weekender + track stuff. It varies, but I'd say I do about 10,000KM a year. 

I'm priced out of CRS completely. I got a quote for CRS when I was picking up the NS2R...

CRS in size 275/35/17.... $435 

Can't get NS2R in that same size, but I paid $265 for 255/40/17

Here is a good apple / apple comparison. 

https://sleekaspares.com.au/product/255-40r17-nankang-ns2r-semi-slick-tyre-120-180tw/

https://sleekaspares.com.au/product/25540r17-nankang-cr-s-competition-semi-slick-200tw/

I don't know how long the CRS would last on the street, even though they are "200 tw" they are a faster tyre then the NS2R, so I would expect they would have an even shorter life expectancy. 

15,000km sounds pretty good to me. The more I think about it, the more I think that's where I'd want to be for my street tyres. I think it's bothering me that the tyres won't even last the year.

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That's an odd size tyre and why expensive, better off going 255 IN 17s or step up to 265 in 18s.

Your in Brisbane area? Try keith4wheels at underwood. Pricing should be better on nankangs through him. 

Another budget option IF you can find them is the nexen sur4g. Found them better than the ns2r on cars I've driven.

Found running square setups helps as I would rotate tyres more frequently to get the most out of them.

[Murray_Calavera]

  On 22/01/2023 at 11:05 AM, robbo_rb180 said:

That's an odd size tyre and why expensive, better off going 255 IN 17s or step up to 265 in 18s.

Your in Brisbane area? Try keith4wheels at underwood. Pricing should be better on nankangs through him. 

Another budget option IF you can find them is the nexen sur4g. Found them better than the ns2r on cars I've driven.

Found running square setups helps as I would rotate tyres more frequently to get the most out of them.

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CRS is about 50% more expensive then NS2R in identical sizes, check out the links I put up.

Yeah I've been looking for sur4g for a while now, can never find any place that has them in stock. Also been looking for Valino and Zeknova tyres, again no one has stock for what I want. 

I would run a square setup if I could get the same size to fit the front. Can't see that ever happening without cutting up the front guards and fitting flares, but I'm really not keen to do that. 

Yep. I'll check out that tyre shop, see how we go with pricing.

[Kinkstaah]

I just got 17,500 kms from my RS4's. Was thinking about changing to NS2R's because RS4's seem out of stock... everywhere. This is through a few track days and running them at 36psi on the road when they are on road use.

Seem to still be the bang for buck performance champion. I was also interested in the NS2R/AR1/CRS options. Porsche guys have a lot of feedback on the CRS and compare it closer to a Pilot Sport Cup 2/2R and rate it on that level/better than that level and it seems to last longer. Some are faster on them than they are on AR1's, others give up a few tenths but the CRS is a much more streetable tyre than the AR1.

So realistically, the CRS is the next level step up/level up from Nankang, with a price to match - But still much cheaper than the same size in a Pilot Sport Cup 2/2R.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

I find it hilarious that Nankang CR-S or CR-1 are more expensive than AR-1.

I was planning on running them until I saw the prices and ended up with Hankook RS-4

So far, I must say I'm impressed with the Hankook RS-4 though, in 2nd I can put down all 438kW on the street! They performed well enough at Eastern Creek's GP Circuit too. Would be nice if Wakefield was open, could really push these tyres and compare them to the Nankang AR-1 tyres I had previously on the car.

Back on topic, 7500km to 10000km per set of tyres is a respectable number for life with a mix of track/street. When I ran Nitto NT01s all round (Taleb Tyres parallel import special) they would last about 5000km or less per set.

[Murray_Calavera]

  On 22/01/2023 at 10:48 PM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

I find it hilarious that Nankang CR-S or CR-1 are more expensive than AR-1.

I was planning on running them until I saw the prices and ended up with Hankook RS-4

So far, I must say I'm impressed with the Hankook RS-4 though, in 2nd I can put down all 438kW on the street! They performed well enough at Eastern Creek's GP Circuit too. Would be nice if Wakefield was open, could really push these tyres and compare them to the Nankang AR-1 tyres I had previously on the car.

Back on topic, 7500km to 10000km per set of tyres is a respectable number for life with a mix of track/street. When I ran Nitto NT01s all round (Taleb Tyres parallel import special) they would last about 5000km or less per set.

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I think I'm going to need a detailed breakdown of your suspension components, setup and alignment lol. 

I can't even put down 300kw on the street in 2nd. Say I'm cruising around 1500 rpm, then floor it in 2nd, around 5500ish rpm it will break loose. 

I wonder how much of that comes down to the shape of the power delivery from the journal bearing turbo. Maybe if I went with the ball bearing centre, it would have had a more gentle power delivery.... I dunno. 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

I don't think it's anything fancy or special to be honest but here goes

• subframe shifted up 10mm using the GKTech subframe kit
• subframe all welded up/braced
• Gktech diff bushes (front/rear)
• HICAS Eliminator kit (i.e. delete the Nissan tie rod ball joint junk on the toe rods)
• Camber arms, at -1.5 degrees
• Traction rods at 15mm longer than OEM
• White ARB on the softest setting 
• 2mm total toe in
• 7kg/mm rear springs on MCA X-R dampers
• KAAZ 2 way LSD
• 265/35/18 Hankook RS-4
• Over height isn't too low, there's about a 18~20mm gap between tyre and wheel arch (not a good measurement as my guards have been cut/welded)
• Control arms are pointed ever so slightly downwards

I suspect my power delivery also attributes to traction, the car somewhat produces a linear ish ish power curve not like your typical exponential growth power curve lol. I get 1bar of boost by about 4200, 1.8bar by 4500rpm and it revs all the way out to 8600rpm. VCT enabled, big silly cams (no stock of the smaller ones at the time).

[Murray_Calavera]

Hmm I think I really need to start running some amount of toe in. 

I run zero toe in the rear, because exciting, but it really doesn't help for performance lol. 

[Duncan]

Actually, I was going to suggest Dose might want to try it with 0 toe, I've preferred that in both rwd and 4wd R chassis. 

With rear toe in you gain stability under power but lose "responsiveness" from the rear in slower speed turns. You do need to be comfortable with the way it responds....

Also you will get more tyre wear and theoretically less power to the ground as the tyres are not pointing forward.

[Murray_Calavera]

  On 23/01/2023 at 12:25 AM, Duncan said:

Actually, I was going to suggest Dose might want to try it with 0 toe, I've preferred that in both rwd and 4wd R chassis. 

With rear toe in you gain stability under power but lose "responsiveness" from the rear in slower speed turns. You do need to be comfortable with the way it responds....

Also you will get more tyre wear and theoretically less power to the ground as the tyres are not pointing forward.

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Do you have everything solid mounted/rose joined in the rear?

My zero toe might be a lot more toe out, then your zero toe. I've still got a lot of rubber bushes to delete in the rear.

[Duncan]

Nah, it's all poly in the back of the race car, rose joints not allowed. 

Also keep in mind that toe is static. Depending on how/if bump steer is set that becomes toe out under power with standard or standardish length upper front link.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

  On 23/01/2023 at 12:25 AM, Duncan said:

Actually, I was going to suggest Dose might want to try it with 0 toe, I've preferred that in both rwd and 4wd R chassis. 

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I might try that next, I am just cautious as the rear end still squats quite a bit on noise, which naturally would toe the rear wheels out.

I spoke to my aligner and he said to still run a little bit of toe-in to keep the car stable on power, however I agree to your point it would make the car clock not as well.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

  On 23/01/2023 at 12:16 AM, Murray_Calavera said:

Hmm I think I really need to start running some amount of toe in. 

I run zero toe in the rear, because exciting, but it really doesn't help for performance lol. 

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I used to run 4mm total toe in LOL...

this was actually also recommended by 2x different alignment shops (BT Motorsports in Smithfield and also Porters Suspension In Kirawee)