R32 GTR Trans install

[Jjtxaz24]

Hey guys, I was looking to see if you all could shed some light on installing the R32 GTR. I currently don't have any help available and all the videos I've seen is how to remove it. 

I had to replace the clutch and I have been having a hell of a time getting it back in. I am doing this in the garage and the car is on jack stands so that alone makes it harder. I do have a transmission jack and another low-profile jack. 

I have read that you have to rotate it clockwise for the starter bump to clear the firewall then once it slides in you can rotate it back and tighten it up (writing that out sounds a lot easier said than done, lol)

Appreciate any help you can give. Frustrated seeing it on jack stands and not having the motivation to get it done because every time I do I end up failing at it. 

[GTSBoy]

It will simply be a complete pain in the cock to do it on the floor. Possibly to the point that you can't manage it and/or end up hurting yourself. It's a big, heavy piece of crap with asymmetric weight distribution and that whole "rotate it and rotate it back" business is hard enough when you're standing under it on a hoist with the trans on a proper gearbox stand. More often than not you get it on and the clutch hasn't aligned properly and it has to come back off again anyway!

If I had to do what you're doing I'd prefer to do engine and box together, out and in through the big hole in the top!

[WantGTR]

totally doable on floor. pain in the ass but doable.

lift it slowly and inch it forward/closer to the motor as you go up. it is a bit of fiddling around but you may have to drop/lift the box from the rear to get the right angle as youre going in. take your time and dont force anything, it should go home 99% of the way without much fuss.

Also, if you have a pull type clutch make the retainer on your clutch cover is on properly otherwise youll be taking the box out again.

have fun.

[BK]

It's actually quite easy once you've done it a few times and have the right gear. It's all about having the correct upward angle on the floor jack mounting, you don't need to rotate anything. You need to make up bracketry to bolt the transmission to though, do not rely on it sitting on the jack as that just won't work.

One thing that is a must is to undo the engine mounts so the engine tilts rearward to suit your upward jack angle.

1 hour ago, GTSBoy said:

 

If I had to do what you're doing I'd prefer to do engine and box together, out and in through the big hole in the top!

No friggen way I'd ever do that.

[BK]

This is from pulling the box out last year to change a clutch on the white 32. Zoom in and youll see how its bolted to the flat bracket on the left to stop it rotating or slipping off.

This jack and bracket combination has removed and reinstalled GTR boxes on this section of concrete more times than I care to remember, nothing fancy required.

 

[GTSBoy]

Looks like it would all go in and out through the engine bay like my RB + 25DET box did. :p

[BK]

 

40 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

Looks like it would all go in and out through the engine bay like my RB + 25DET box did. 😛

Yeah it CAN go in that way, but the height and angle required do it with 400kg + hanging off an engine crane is something I'd rather avoid.

Heaps of the Yanks on youtube are doing it like that with the engine and box through the engine bay.

[Jjtxaz24]

8 hours ago, BK said:

It's actually quite easy once you've done it a few times and have the right gear. It's all about having the correct upward angle on the floor jack mounting, you don't need to rotate anything. You need to make up bracketry to bolt the transmission to though, do not rely on it sitting on the jack as that just won't work.

One thing that is a must is to undo the engine mounts so the engine tilts rearward to suit your upward jack angle.

No friggen way I'd ever do that.

Awesome, do you undo the engine mounts off the block or is from the frame so the engine can rock back? 

[Jjtxaz24]

5 hours ago, BK said:

This is from pulling the box out last year to change a clutch on the white 32. Zoom in and youll see how its bolted to the flat bracket on the left to stop it rotating or slipping off.

This jack and bracket combination has removed and reinstalled GTR boxes on this section of concrete more times than I care to remember, nothing fancy required.

 

Got any other pics of this bracketry? It looks like you just boxed up the bottom of the trans so it doesn't roll using the trans mount bolt holes and those on the rear. 

[Duncan]

Yeah it is such a pain on the floor, but possible.  Get the car as high as you safely can to have room to work.

Like BK said the main thing is letting in engine tilt back. You probably have heater hosts between the head and the firewall, not sure but if you can get them out of the way it will let the engine tilt back further. If you can get the head to rest on the firewall it will be nice

You must have the clutch aligned in the pressure plate before you start, using a clutch alignment tool or even better old input shaft

I've used 2 floor jacks under the box, front and rear, so you can manage the angle of the box

Then, you need to get the box high enough (probably at a pretty steep angle) to get the input shaft past the pressure plate fingers. Be careful among all the swearing not to rest the box's weight on the input shaft as you don't want to bend anything.

Once it is past the pressure plate you can raise the rear of the box to be more level and move forward until the input shaft is in the back of the crank, yes you probably need to twist it a bit so the starter motor bulge clears. At this point the most important thing is exact same angle between the engine and gearbox (they should both still be pointing down as much as the engine can). You can check the angle is even by the gap between the bellhousing and the block being equal top and bottom and both sides.

If it is not co-operating as you as the input shaft seats in the clutch plate, turn the engine a little with a breaker bar on the crank pulley. Most often if the splines on the clutch and input shaft don't align initially they will co-operate and turn enough on the way in, but sometimes you need to turn the crank just a little to sort it

From there it needs to move forward until the gap is down to 10mm or less, at which point you can pull them together with a bolt / c clamp etc, as long as those gaps are even. If you force it crooked at this point you can bend the input shaft

Get the top bolts done up before you level the engine again as you'll have better clearance. Best way is 3 or 4 long extensions on a ratchet, all above the gearbox to get to those 2 bolts, all the others are easy.

It really is a shit job on the floor, these boxes are damn heavy.

BTW I have done engine only out the top, engine and gearbox out the top and engine and gearbox out the bottom. Engine and gearbox out the top really is no fun because it is such a long weight to tilt and move.

 

[BK]

15 hours ago, Jjtxaz24 said:

Awesome, do you undo the engine mounts off the block or is from the frame so the engine can rock back? 

Undo top and bottom of engine mounts, not engine mount brackets on block. Basically it'll  have the engine tilt back against the firewall.

15 hours ago, Jjtxaz24 said:

Got any other pics of this bracketry? It looks like you just boxed up the bottom of the trans so it doesn't roll using the trans mount bolt holes and those on the rear. 

Don't have any other pictures on me, that was just from the last time a box was out last year. Basically you get the picture though, bracket on back to stop slipping off the flat gearbox lifting plate adapter for a floor jack.

Spend the time chocking under the front bellhousing area correctly for the angle you require. This is the most time consuming part really, just getting it setup on a jack 

If the engine is tilted and you suss out the jack angle correctly to suit it goes in easily with one hand on the jack handle - rotation of box not required if you have this right.

Even my 78 year old Dad still manages this solo on his car, so have a crack.

I'll be taking my 33 GTR box out soonish to generally inspect the OS gearset and reseal centre plate, so I'll try and document this with some photos for you.

[Murray_Calavera]

I hope that's me at 78. What a champ!

[Jjtxaz24]

So clutch is installed and it's all up and running. 

Issue: car shifts into gears no problem when it's off. When it's on, it wont go in. I got it to go in but it was a struggle. Didn't try again.

 

Any advice. 

[Duncan]

I take it that it just crunches if you try and put it in gear with foot on clutch? Have you taken it for a drive to see if it changes without the clutch (with correct revs)?

Well, you can start by confirming the slave cylinder is moving the fork properly, it should move a cm or 2 when you put foot on the clutch.

From there you kind of need to know what's happening in the bellhousing. Is the fork clipped into the thrust bearing OK (assuming this is a push clutch) and is it also clipped onto the pivot ball OK?

If all that is right, it might be the wrong height carrier/thrust bearing.

[Jjtxaz24]

 

6 hours ago, Duncan said:

I take it that it just crunches if you try and put it in gear with foot on clutch? Have you taken it for a drive to see if it changes without the clutch (with correct revs)?

Well, you can start by confirming the slave cylinder is moving the fork properly, it should move a cm or 2 when you put foot on the clutch.

From there you kind of need to know what's happening in the bellhousing. Is the fork clipped into the thrust bearing OK (assuming this is a push clutch) and is it also clipped onto the pivot ball OK?

If all that is right, it might be the wrong height carrier/thrust bearing.

The clutch is a push clutch and it does move when I press the clutch in. I have not taken the car off the jack stands but it is hard to put into gear when it is on, I don't know if I'd say it crunches. 

I am using a mantic clutch and it came as a kit with the throw out bearing so I used the one they provided. I also upgraded the forks. The clutch master is not a stock GTR one, it is a s15 master because I took off the clutch booster before removing the clutch thinking I had a vacuum leak (car would bog down when I pushed in the clutch bad to the point it was almost stalling when I pressed the clutch. It turned out pilot bushing and clutch plate were toast). 

The one on the right is from a company down here and it's meant to replace the oem GTR kit with a beefier set up. It's kind of a moshposh of parts but I didn't use that TOB, I used the one in the clurch kit since I figured it's the one they'd want to me to use. 

 Haven't bled it yet but this was yesterday trying it out to see if it worked.

I'm going to try to bleed the system and adjust the clutch on the master today. I didn't do those yesterday because it got late. I really hope I don't have to drop the trans again, putting it back on and putting the starter on were a bitch. I don't wanna have to do it again. 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Jjtxaz24

[Jjtxaz24]

Went in and bled the clutch, and adjusted the clutch pedal... 

 Here's a picture of the clutch master. 

 

 

[Duncan]

Highly unlikely to be a hydraulic issue, even before bleeding it, your first vid clearly shows the slave cylinder working correctly. Also, the fact that you can get 5 forward gears at idle but not reverse is consistent with the clutch not disengaging

From there it gets trickier, my guess is you have some problem with the throw out bearing or carrier's height. From the side by side pic the bearings seem to have a very different height (and so does the pivot ball but I'm not sure what effect that will have).

I've never had to sort this myself, maybe someone else here can suggest how to check the engagement/bearing height is correct

[Jjtxaz24]

17 hours ago, Duncan said:

Highly unlikely to be a hydraulic issue, even before bleeding it, your first vid clearly shows the slave cylinder working correctly. Also, the fact that you can get 5 forward gears at idle but not reverse is consistent with the clutch not disengaging

From there it gets trickier, my guess is you have some problem with the throw out bearing or carrier's height. From the side by side pic the bearings seem to have a very different height (and so does the pivot ball but I'm not sure what effect that will have).

I've never had to sort this myself, maybe someone else here can suggest how to check the engagement/bearing height is correct

It went into 1st, 2nd, 3rd and I didn't force it into 4th, 5th and you can hear it grind as I tried to put it into reverse. Putting it in 1st, 2nd and 3rd takes some effort though so something is definitely wrong. 

I do get all gears when car is off and no load though. The throwout bearing I used came with the kit and the TOB carrier is the stock height, I measured it and inspected it before installing it. I did replace the old one because it had stress fractures so I assumed it would go out on me. 

The pivot ball (smaller one) came with the kit and idk if that's the culprit or not, it's a leverage point so it might be what's causing the trans not to disengage when it's on. The reason I used the smaller one over the longer one is it came with the fork upgrade kit. When I tried to screw in the pivot ball though it was a smaller thread size. Which in turn caused me to order a front trans cover to be able to use the short pivot ball. I'm assuming the old cover some one tapped and drilled to fit the one I had before (longer one). 

Previous clutch was a twin disk and its dated 1/11/18, not sure on brand or anything here's some pics. You can see where the clutch forks were getting grinded on by the TOB and I'm guessing it's from the pilot bushing being a little ate up. This was causing the engine to bog to the point where it would almost stalling out. I ended up changing out the clutch master and slave thinking it was a vacuum leak. 

[Jjtxaz24]

Alright, so I pulled the trans back out and will be putting in the oem length pivot ball, plus side is it took me 2 hours to drop the trans and 40 minutes of that was to reach the top bolt on the starter... thing is a pain in the ass!!

Issue/concerns: The original pivot ball (longer one) requires me to use the old fork. I don't have an issue with that. I think that's what I'll do and will hopefully fix my issue.

I'm pretty sure the throwout bearing is installed the correct way, but I have my doubts. I will email mantic to see if they can confirm it's right or that I have installed it backwards. Thoughts?

Front towards engine/clutch forks:

Towards rear of car:

 

Side view with original fork that was in car: 

I'd appreciate any assistance on this. Not sure what else would have caused my issues.

Edited April 2, 2023 by Jjtxaz24
Fix formatting

[Jjtxaz24]

Got a reply back from mantic... bearing was installed correctly.  

I also check the clutch disk and everything else and it's also installed properly, lol. 

So, guess I'll be installing the original fork and new (original length) pivot ball and hope that was my issue.