Oil cooler, is it really required for my 34GTT

[YD34GTT]

So I'm in process of building my 34gtt

Will be aiming for about 500kw atw

Have not spared a dollar on set up going full nitto forged bottom, g30-900, plazmaman manifold fmic, 1650cc Bosch (a lot more but you get the idea with my list)

At what stage do you get an oil cooler and is it necessary or a wank factor? Car will be mainly street, occasional roll race and very occasional circuit 

Do they really make a difference?

I will be sporting restrictors, head drain, nitto pump, baffled extended sump with high flow pick up and baffled cam covers 

TIA

[Kinkstaah]

Circuit yes, everything else no. They make a difference once you're on the throttle for more than about 30 seconds.

It's more important than anything else on the list when the car is driven hard. An Accusump is also what you want as soon as you go around a corner with any gusto.

Those two are the first two mods that anyone who wants to drive the thing hard should get.

It depends on the use of the car. If you want to say it makes a ton of power and spend events with your bonnet up, it's probably wank factor. If you intend to use it as god intended, these two are vital but considering you have started with a 500kw goal and a forged bottom end, I'm going to think you won't use either as this is a build going in the exact other direction.

I say this because you've got some oil control mods there but I'm not entirely sure you've not just "heard they are good while the motor is apart (they are)" but they are very much circuit mods.

I still don't think forged pistons are worth it. Nobody seems to ever melt a stock piston nowadays, and you get nothing but downsides from having them, E85 does better for knock resistance than having pistons that resist said knock - and I am guessing you are planning to be E85 too.

[YD34GTT]

44 minutes ago, YD34GTT said:

So I'm in process of building my 34gtt

Will be aiming for about 500kw atw

Have not spared a dollar on set up going full nitto forged bottom, g30-900, plazmaman manifold fmic, 1650cc Bosch (a lot more but you get the idea with my list)

At what stage do you get an oil cooler and is it necessary or a wank factor? Car will be mainly street, occasional roll race and very occasional circuit 

Do they really make a difference?

I will be sporting restrictors, head drain, nitto pump, baffled extended sump with high flow pick up and baffled cam covers 

TIA

 

14 minutes ago, Kinkstaah said:

Circuit yes, everything else no. They make a difference once you're on the throttle for more than about 30 seconds.

It's more important than anything else on the list when the car is driven hard. An Accusump is also what you want as soon as you go around a corner with any gusto.

Those two are the first two mods that anyone who wants to drive the thing hard should get.

It depends on the use of the car. If you want to say it makes a ton of power and spend events with your bonnet up, it's probably wank factor. If you intend to use it as god intended, these two are vital but considering you have started with a 500kw goal and a forged bottom end, I'm going to think you won't use either as this is a build going in the exact other direction.

I say this because you've got some oil control mods there but I'm not entirely sure you've not just "heard they are good while the motor is apart (they are)" but they are very much circuit mods.

I still don't think forged pistons are worth it. Nobody seems to ever melt a stock piston nowadays, and you get nothing but downsides from having them, E85 does better for knock resistance than having pistons that resist said knock - and I am guessing you are planning to be E85 too.

Interesting thanks for the info, yes definitely going to e85, I think I'll be lucky to do 1 circuit day a year if that, will do more roll racing and weekend street drives than anything else. 

Even if I don't decide to do it now, it is something that can be done in the future if I decide to do more circuit days and I'm assuming accusumps can also be done later down the road?

 

[Murray_Calavera]

Seems like you don't want to put the cooler in, that's fine. 

Turn your engine protection on, set the oil temp to what your comfortable with, when the car tells you it's party over, go back into the pits and let it cool down. 

If you find your not happy with the frequency of your rest breaks, install your oil cooler. 

As you extend your track time, you'll then run into your next overheating issue. If I had to guess it would be brakes/tyres overheating.... and the cycle repeats itself...

[MBS206]

Are you going to have an accurate oil temperature in your face on the dashboard, AND do you know what a good oil temperature is to maintain?

If either of the above is NO, then I'd add one.

 

The reason I state this, I assume, by "weekend street drives" you're not meaning hard parking at a coffee shop, and intend to probably take it through some twisty runs etc with friends. While not as hard as a track day on the vehicle, it could still start to push oil temps up. If you don't know what a good oil temp is, and/or you don't have that information glaring at you in the face, (OR the ECU doesn't have that info to start culling your power etc) then you should run one, or risk the death of your bearings.

 

I've seen a few people even do bearings with oil surge on twisty mountain runs too, even if not hard on the power, just having engine revs up higher can cause lots of oil up top, and then going round a corner, you can pick up air, and bye bye bearings

[Kinkstaah]

Yep, this is just one of those things where people mod the car based on what the internet says, and NOT in an order of "I drive car hard and this is what it needs-order".

We've all been there. I would also argue that 250kw is faster than 500kw through the hills, with all the other benefits that has.

Roll racing is another story obviously. But you could still save money on power and roll up on drag radials (yes even from a roll) and you'll beat your friends and save money 😛

[YD34GTT]

Looks like I might be getting an oil cooler then 😂

[YD34GTT]

41 minutes ago, MBS206 said:

Are you going to have an accurate oil temperature in your face on the dashboard, AND do you know what a good oil temperature is to maintain?

If either of the above is NO, then I'd add one.

 

The reason I state this, I assume, by "weekend street drives" you're not meaning hard parking at a coffee shop, and intend to probably take it through some twisty runs etc with friends. While not as hard as a track day on the vehicle, it could still start to push oil temps up. If you don't know what a good oil temp is, and/or you don't have that information glaring at you in the face, (OR the ECU doesn't have that info to start culling your power etc) then you should run one, or risk the death of your bearings.

 

I've seen a few people even do bearings with oil surge on twisty mountain runs too, even if not hard on the power, just having engine revs up higher can cause lots of oil up top, and then going round a corner, you can pick up air, and bye bye bearings

I'll be running 2500 with ic7 and all necessary sensors for all fluids, air, knoc, wb1, MAP etc

But based on replies I guess doing an oil cooler seems like a good idea 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Also why not G35-900?

Get a good thermostat, and don't skimp on the cooler. Get either Setrab or Earls or Mocal or PWR etc. Avoid the eBay looking one with great marketing and big branding. You know which one.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

If you're never hitting the circuit and only using if hard for like 10s at a time you should be fine without an oil cooler.

But definitely keep the water/oil heat exchanger installed, don't delete that and spend decent money on your radiator and you'll be fine.

Avoid eBay looking fans with fancy marketing, they're shit. Get Spal or Flex-a-Lite if you're thinking of binning the stock fan/shroud (preferably keep them).

[Duncan]

oil cooler is not required unless a gauge/sensor tells you it is getting hot the way you use the car.  It is more likely to keep the oil too cold longer each time you start it than help you keep it cool when being driven hard.

[joshuaho96]

1 hour ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

If you're never hitting the circuit and only using if hard for like 10s at a time you should be fine without an oil cooler.

But definitely keep the water/oil heat exchanger installed, don't delete that and spend decent money on your radiator and you'll be fine.

Avoid eBay looking fans with fancy marketing, they're shit. Get Spal or Flex-a-Lite if you're thinking of binning the stock fan/shroud (preferably keep them).

I was told that the oil heat exchanger causes the oil to overheat by some experienced American owners, surely they couldn't be wrong???

[Murray_Calavera]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

oil cooler is not required unless a gauge/sensor tells you it is getting hot the way you use the car.  It is more likely to keep the oil too cold longer each time you start it than help you keep it cool when being driven hard.

I've got a thermostat in my sandwich plate and the factory oil cooler/warmer, my oil temps come up at pretty much the same rate as my water temps. 

[GTSBoy]

1 hour ago, joshuaho96 said:

I was told that the oil heat exchanger causes the oil to overheat by some experienced American owners, surely they couldn't be wrong???

They're wrong.

[joshuaho96]

32 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

They're wrong.

Yes, but they're highly respected members of the Facebook GTR community. Every self-respecting member knows that the only way to build these cars is to delete the factory oil warmer for a Taarks block.

1 hour ago, Murray_Calavera said:

I've got a thermostat in my sandwich plate and the factory oil cooler/warmer, my oil temps come up at pretty much the same rate as my water temps. 

My opinion is that any oil cooler you attach should have an 80C thermostat on it. The stock ECU tune really, really wants to see 80C water temps. Oil can safely be higher temps than coolant too.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

2 hours ago, joshuaho96 said:

experienced American owners, surely they couldn't be wrong???

Lol...

Well running their "premium" Mishimoto radiators wouldn't be helping.

Surely Nissan got it wrong by installing them on RB25s and RB26s.

Also those water/oil heat exchangers aren't just for heating the oil. What happens when oil exceeds water temp? What do you think that water/oil heat exchanger is responsible for?

[GTSBoy]

3 minutes ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Surely Nissan got it wrong by installing them on RB25s and RB26s.

Also those water/oil heat exchangers aren't just for heating the oil. What happens when oil exceeds water temp? What do you think that water/oil heat exchanger is responsible for?

I think Josh might actually be having a go at his fellow 'Muricans here.

[Duncan]

yeah I've got a thermostat in the race car too, on things like rallies it does a lot of cold starts.  

[soviet_merlin]

For the mechanically challenged: How can one tell whether there still is a water/oil heat exchanger on the car or not? Asking for a friend

What does it look like and where does it live on an rb25?

[YD34GTT]

4 hours ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

If you're never hitting the circuit and only using if hard for like 10s at a time you should be fine without an oil cooler.

But definitely keep the water/oil heat exchanger installed, don't delete that and spend decent money on your radiator and you'll be fine.

Avoid eBay looking fans with fancy marketing, they're shit. Get Spal or Flex-a-Lite if you're thinking of binning the stock fan/shroud (preferably keep them).

I have purchases a PWR radiator but in terms of fan I'm just changing my standard clutch fan to the GKTECH clutch fan which fits on OEM shroud, I think thermals weren't very necessary for me. As I said the circuit may only be a once a year thing, I think I have most things covered in terms of oil control and I defs will never skimp on cheap ebay stuff haha I've gone quality all around so if an oil cooler is needed I'm looking at greddy maybe with the PWR plate. But there was mention in this thread of thermostat

4 hours ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Also why not G35-900?

Get a good thermostat, and don't skimp on the cooler. Get either Setrab or Earls or Mocal or PWR etc. Avoid the eBay looking one with great marketing and big branding. You know which one.

I went g30 because I wanted a little more response because the car will be very much street more than anything else so decided against g35