V35 ‘03 right hand side window regulator replacement

[tehmessiah]

Hi everyone,

My drivers side (front right) window hasn’t worked since I bought the car 3-4 years ago.

I took the electric motor cover off and cleaned out all the dust and it worked for a week and stopped again. The previous owner said it hadn’t worked for years too.

I asked the wreckers and they said they never have any of them because they break so frequently.

Are $50-100 eBay/Amazon ones ok?

Any other recommendations please?

[Vee37]

21 hours ago, tehmessiah said:

Hi everyone,

My drivers side (front right) window hasn’t worked since I bought the car 3-4 years ago.

I took the electric motor cover off and cleaned out all the dust and it worked for a week and stopped again. The previous owner said it hadn’t worked for years too.

I asked the wreckers and they said they never have any of them because they break so frequently.

Are $50-100 eBay/Amazon ones ok?

Any other recommendations please?

when I got my v35, they worked. Then one stopped (and later the other). I took mine out, cleaned out the casing AND the bushes, gently pulled the bushes out a little, to extend the springs so they actually pushed against the electrical spindle contact. AND selectively greased them up (at the pointy end and slightly around the contacts) with electrically conductive grease I got from JayCar. They both then worked flawlessly for another 5+ years when I got a V36 ie they never failed again.

I checked Jaycar, they dont sell the same brand anymore (it was >5y ago), but similar/effectively the same nonetheless.

When they were flaykey, I used to band on the side of the door to get them up when I parked, so I would *guess* the bushes were sticking. In my first attempt, I think I actually tried normal grease, and that failed miserably.

 

Not the one I used

https://www.jaycar.com.au/conductive-carbon-grease-50g/p/NA1034

Edited October 1, 2023 by Vee37

[tehmessiah]

Thanks,

Maybe I used the wrong grease. It was too long ago, but I’ll try again. I remember the contacts for the brushes were dirty AF. I cleaned them with WD40 and a tooth brush. 
Can you get replacement brushes from somewhere?

[tehmessiah]

Was it this stuff?

https://www.jaycar.com.au/conductive-carbon-grease-50g/p/NA1034?pos=2&queryId=d2a5c5e0a31f2f7501cb0f9ac10c6b17

[Vee37]

7 hours ago, tehmessiah said:

Thanks,

Maybe I used the wrong grease. It was too long ago, but I’ll try again. I remember the contacts for the brushes were dirty AF. I cleaned them with WD40 and a tooth brush. 
Can you get replacement brushes from somewhere?

I personally avoid WD49 like the plague. Its Water Displacement. From memory, and what I have "lying around", I would of used an electrical cleaner spray can from JayCar as well. WD40 will leave unwanted stuff coating the surface.

on a side topic, for non-electrically conductive lubrication, I have found the PTFE lube SOOOOOOOO much better.

https://www.jaycar.com.au/dry-lubricant-spray/p/NA1013

I thought about getting replacement bushes, but to not delay the fix, I did the clean, thinking I could use it while I looked. But, it worked and kept on working! and I was lazy to look. There just a block of carbon, so I was thinking something close could be modified to the correct size.

I also found a US company that sold new G35 window motors with a 25y guarantee.

7 hours ago, tehmessiah said:

Was it this stuff?

https://www.jaycar.com.au/conductive-carbon-grease-50g/p/NA1034?pos=2&queryId=d2a5c5e0a31f2f7501cb0f9ac10c6b17

ummm... thats the one I linked above, that is NOT the one I used at the time, but looks right for whats available today. And the more I think of it, I probably did mine around 10+ years ago. ie the fix worked for around 10y

Edited October 2, 2023 by Vee37

[tehmessiah]

This is what I got this time. I’ll give a thorough clean and lube and let you know how I go.

[Vee37]

4 hours ago, tehmessiah said:

This is what I got this time. I’ll give a thorough clean and lube and let you know how I go.

Dielectric greaser is not electrically conductive. It will block the electricall power to run the motor. Possibly making it worse than it is now.

Quote

What is dielectric grease? Despite the fact it has "electric" right there in the name, it's a fairly common misconception that dielectric grease is capable of conducting electricity. In actual fact, dielectric grease is an insulator and doesn't conduct electricity.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/what-is-dielectric-grease/

 

[tehmessiah]

Oh thank you, this is what they sold me at Repco 😬

 I’ll go to JayCar today and get that other stuff then.

[Vee37]

I also remembered another step I did when fixing my window motors. Where the carbon brushes push against the spindle, there is a what looks like a brass ring/tube (broken for electrical distribution to the coils). Mine wasn't completely shiny, so I gently also polished that up to look bright and shiny using Brasso (from Coles or such I think). But be careful, from memory mine looked very worn/thin, and I felt at the time that if I went too far, I may of taken it all off. And be sure to clean it off again (ie the abrasive Brasso)  before the grease, and I put a very thin layer of grease there. For lubrication and to make up any extra wear gaps.

[GTSBoy]

53 minutes ago, Vee37 said:

there is a what looks like a brass ring/tube (broken for electrical distribution to the coils)

Commutator.

Normally use shropping tape (fabric sandpaper) on a lathe to clean those up. Not to worry about rubbing through it with Brasso!

Grease is problematic. Maybe dielectric grease, but "making up wear gaps" is not a function that grease fills.

[tehmessiah]

When I cleaned mine last time, the gaps between those contacts on the commutator was filled with the graphite dust from the brushes. That’s what I scrubbed out with WD40 and a tooth brush.

I thought it was odd that there was no insulator in between the contacts. There was probably 1-2mm gap between each contact.

19 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

Grease is problematic. Maybe dielectric grease, but "making up wear gaps" is not a function that grease fills.

Are you talking about the grease filling that gap?

[Vee37]

2 hours ago, tehmessiah said:

....snip..

Are you talking about the grease filling that gap?

No definitely not. Thats why I said a very thin coat. The gaps made up are for between the brushes and the spindle bands, for lubrication. I used the electrically conductive grease to make sure it didnt act as an insulator. If anything, use a sharp pick (say toothpick) to ensure there is no contact/electrical path between them due to the grease.

The grease is probably not there on new ones, but mine were not flat and shiny. It was many years ago now, but I have a vague memory they looked pretty gouged. And with so may years of wear, I was taking no risks of sanding them any more than needed.

 

3 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

Commutator.

Normally use shropping tape (fabric sandpaper) on a lathe to clean those up. Not to worry about rubbing through it with Brasso!

Grease is problematic. Maybe dielectric grease, but "making up wear gaps" is not a function that grease fills.

The more I think of it, my repair was probably closer to 10+ years ago (and hence lasted 10+years). Its not like I do this for a living, so didnt get to know the full construction (and metal thikness, so err'd on the side of caution). I just used logic and understand of how it worked, to know what I had to do and where, and where not to apply the grease. Just at the pointy end of the spindle (lots there) and small carefully applied amount around the spindle carbon contacts (and I think I lubed up in the carbon contact holder area, and stretched the springs a little). ie the two electrical contacts.

As for dielectric grease, two post above yurs makes it clear it does the exact opposite for electrical connections.

[GTSBoy]

The lack of conductivity is the reason to use dielectric grease.

Think about it. Do you realy want a potentially (hah! pun intended!) conductive grease bridging the gaps between commutator bars? No. I didn't think so. Would somewhat defeat the purpose of a comm bar, wouldn't it?

[tehmessiah]

What ever he did it clearly worked.

I’ll take it apart and re-clean it.
Maybe I put too much grease or something in the wrong place. It did fix it for a week last time.

 I’ll take photos and put them here for advice/judgement 🤔

[Vee37]

6 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

The lack of conductivity is the reason to use dielectric grease.

Think about it. Do you realy want a potentially (hah! pun intended!) conductive grease bridging the gaps between commutator bars? No. I didn't think so. Would somewhat defeat the purpose of a comm bar, wouldn't it?

Thats why I was explicit about a very LIGHT application and checking there is no conductive grease crossing/shorting between the contacts. However, what I did want is the grease to not only lubricate the contact between the ring/bars on the spindle and the carbon contacts but also to cross any increase gaps/tolerances due to wear. I definitely did NOT want to put anything between the carbon contacts and the spindle contact that would hinder/block the flow of electricity.

[GTSBoy]

1 hour ago, Vee37 said:

However, what I did want is the grease to not only lubricate the contact between the ring/bars on the spindle and the carbon contacts but also to cross any increase gaps/tolerances due to wear. I definitely did NOT want to put anything between the carbon contacts and the spindle contact that would hinder/block the flow of electricity.

See, this is the bit I don't follow. What gaps? If you're filling gaps between the brushes and the comm bars, ie radial gaps, then the brushes aren't touching the comm bars and you get no connection.

Brushes are supposed to wear to rub smoothly on the comm bars. There is no need for lubrication. Graphite is a solid phase lubricant already.

[tehmessiah]

Ok, here’s the photos. 

[tehmessiah]

Now I’ve polished it with silvo, I didn’t have braso, and rinsed it clean with contact cleaner.

So after our long discussion, where should/shouldn’t I grease it and what grease do I use?

[GTSBoy]

Only put grease on parts of the shaft that run in bushes. So, maybe the LH end of that photo. But only if it runs in a bush. If it runs in a rolling element bearing, don't bother. If there is a bush at one end, it is likely bushed at both ends. Ditto bearings.

Don't grease the commutator.

[tehmessiah]

That spiral threaded bit is what turns the gears.

What type of grease should I use on it?