Mix sourced shocks revalved for r32 gtst. Need your review!

[FabM]

Hi everyone, 

Alright, 1rst post and I'm coming back about a suspension subject already spoken about but still not enough for me^^°

I explain. I'm sourcing parts for my r32 gtst that I'm bringing back to France. I'm planning to use the car 70% back roads and 30% track it.

So it means, regarding our pavement and rally type roads, that I'm not going to a coilovers setup. 

They use to be too stiff and also regarding French regulation and technical control, I prefer to make life easier and stay with stock form kind of shocks ^^. It's a 30yold collectible car, not a track weapon. so no needs to be perfect but just enjoy it on various driving. 

I'm used to bilstein and we all know how good they work for our roads. So I'm planning to buy shocks and revalved on purpose back in France. 

Regarding springs I've sourced already some tein old Springs. 

Might consider also whiteline antirolling bars later one if needed. 

Specs of the springs :

Spring Rate: front 5.7k / rear 4.6k

Free Length: front 263mm / rear 270mm

Ride Height Drop: front 45mm / rear 30mm

So now is time to find shocks. But as not produced anymore and not coming on the second hand market here in Japan, I would like to know what you think about s13 rear bilstein shocks and front gtr, considering that they will be revalved. 

S13 rear seems to be shorter. But someone knows how much? To fit that springs and keeping a correct geometry (I'm fitting also gkteck rear subframe PU bushing correcting geometry). The shock body is the same lengh as the one for r32? Is it just the rod which is shorten? 

Front gtr shocks might be OK after custom revalved, or might fit that spring rates with original rate? Also shorter than gtst right? How much? 

Adding some circle on the body of the shock to adjust height might help me to correct that height difference on rear side. 

Also if the shorten height is concerning the rods of the shocks then it's like having a b8 instead of the b6 ^^ as the height is mostly managed by the spring. 

Any advice or point of view regarding that? 

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by FabM

[niZmO_Man]

Since you're in France, checked what KW offers these days?

[GTSBoy]

Sadly it appears that KW do jack all for Skylines.

That's not to say that they couldn't work something up. If I was there I would definitely wheel the car into their premises for a look see.

[FabM]

Kw would be a nice setup with coilovers but they don't do for hcr32. Kw provide for GTS4 and gtr only. 

We'll I didn't contact them also for now.

But I'm really kind to go for a bilstein setup. Good quality and stiffness, maintenance OK in France, some rings to adjust a bit the height is enough for me, long life durability -> that's what I'm looking for.

Also, will pass the technical inspection when I will register it in France. 

I'm still in Japan, so finding a bilstein setup is doable . 2 sets pass thru upgarage last summer. Hopefully I will have an other opportunity. 

I've contact a few dealers, also the one which work on SK bilstein setup of what I've understood. No one will provide a set or give information about compatibility /difference between r32, s13 or Z32 parts. Also I've contacted Ennepetal Japan, which used to sell and mod bilstein suspension. Nothing possible with them. 

For now, I only see 3 options:

- kayaba new sr special, but not adapted on my project, I got a set that I purchased with the springs tein. Certainly to soft for me. 

- tein monoflex, but as usual maintenance is a budget and not avalaible in France. Also is it really what I'm looking for? Spring Rate is OK, but valving stiffness and quality ok? (even if mono type shock)... 

-BC racing, cheap for maintenance, looks to be good price/quality but again, I would prefer a good shock/spring setup instead of cheap/mid quality coilovers... 

So I hope to find those #€** bilstein here in Japan before summer ^^. And than custom valving back home. 

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by FabM

[FabM]

2nd point. 

I still have found a few cheap sets of bilstein for Bnr32 and a rear set for a s13. 

Might be interesting would you think?

My main concern is this length difference between s13 and r32 rear shocks. 

[GTSBoy]

Just buy some S13 rears and hold them next your R32 ones. Then decide if you're keeping them or moving them on.

[FabM]

That's what I will probably do. I was hoping that someone would have the answer about those exact difference ^^

Edited December 21, 2023 by FabM

[FabM]

Hello just for information 

A hcr32 rear bilstein suspension is 60mm long from top to center of bottom axle. 

A s13 180sx bilstein one is 25mm shorter. 

[GTSBoy]

I've just been speaking to someone who knows.

Kings Springs will special order springs that are no longer on catalogue, so long as they have made them before.

Bilstein will special make dampers that are NLA also. Apparently A set of 4 were sent to Australia to satisfy a special order for R32. 9 month lead time though.

[FabM]

Thanks for that review @GTSBoy, I've contacted bilstein and haven't the same review from them.

I'll try again then. Do you know if the person for the special order R32 is on the forum? 

About springs, I think I'm OK for now as I may have a good linear spring setup. I don't think it's a necessity to get harder than 5.8 front et 4.6 rear on the road back in France for what I will do. Progressiv springs would fit maybe better my purpose on road but not as good on track. But for the price I had my linear setup, I will keep on going with them 

So still looking for shocks. 

Or if it doesn't work the way I wish, I will have a closer look on bc coilovers. We speak oftenly about KW  in EU or Tein worldwide, but BC looks to prove their serious work too. So as a midrange coilovers easily rebuildable on a good price. Might have a closer look also. 

[GTSBoy]

2 hours ago, FabM said:

Do you know if the person for the special order R32 is on the forum?

No. My brother-in-law runs a performance workshop here in Oz and he ordered them for a customer, through Bilstein's Oz agency (whoever they are).

Linear springs with 5.8 at the front and Bilsteins would be....very firm for the road. You wouldn't want to go past ~22mm solid front ARB, would be my guess.

As to choices of various coilovers in place of stock format dampers/struts.....I would say if you were going to do it, I would just go direct to KW and see what they can do. There would be approximately 3/10th of bugger all chance that they could not cobble something together for you. With KW in such close proximity, I would never choose BC. I see BC as 2nd tier suspension, at best.

Or, you could contact MCA here in OZ and get a set ready to go for the R chassis, for sensible money. And they are top tier suspension. (OK, "top tier" in context. They are still probably Asian made dampers, but they are specced correctly and quality controlled appropriately. And they are supported properly). But you'd be mad to do this given KW and the small effort required to get something put together, for the local support, if nothing else.

[FabM]

I'm guessing a firm setup also but as it will be also for drift purpose I don't want to have a front to soft and also while on the track be too much depending on arb to go flat. 

I'm planning to get 22or24  adjustable arb on a 2nd step if needed. But step by step. I want to first try this setup shock+springs which are near twice firmer as oem springs. 

I'm still waiting from bilstein a real answer as they send me back to bnr32 product list, which doesn't fit a hcr32...

So I really don't know if it will be possible . Will see. 

Regarding kw I've contact them. But I still prefer a shock + spring setup. Coilovers are not my way for now. 

I might change maybe one day but not for now, first I want to try that way. 

I've used bilstein+eibach. Then bilstein+eibach custom Valving on 2 fwd sport hatchback. now I want to try stiffer springs and custom valving. I hope it might be a really good compromise between track and road.

Edited December 24, 2023 by FabM

[robbo_rb180]

23 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

you could contact MCA here in OZ and get a set ready to go for the R chassis, for sensible money. And they are top tier suspension. (OK, "top tier" in context. They are still probably Asian made dampers, but they are specced correctly and quality controlled appropriately. And they are supported properly). But you'd be mad to do this given KW and the small effort required to get something put together, for the local support, if nothing else.

The parts are all manufactured overseas except the golds, but all assembly is done in Brisbane.

19 hours ago, FabM said:

I'm guessing a firm setup also but as it will be also for drift purpose I don't want to have a front to soft and also while on the track be too much depending on arb to go flat. 

I'm planning to get 22or24  adjustable arb on a 2nd step if needed. But step by step. I want to first try this setup shock+springs which are near twice firmer as oem springs. 

I'm still waiting from bilstein a real answer as they send me back to bnr32 product list, which doesn't fit a hcr32...

So I really don't know if it will be possible . Will see. 

Regarding kw I've contact them. But I still prefer a shock + spring setup. Coilovers are not my way for now. 

I might change maybe one day but not for now, first I want to try that way. 

I've used bilstein+eibach. Then bilstein+eibach custom Valving on 2 fwd sport hatchback. now I want to try stiffer springs and custom valving. I hope it might be a really good compromise between track and road.

Contact MCA Suspension they can build you a set that will work exactly how you want. Won't need sway bar upgrade either. They can also supply multiple spring rates for same set of dampers as that's what I use to do for different events.
The MCA are rebuildable and annual maintenance is recommended (strip, clean and regrease bodies).


 

[FabM]

Thank you @robbo_rb180 but that's exactly why I don't want a coilovers setup : annual maintenance and not cheap. Even more with an Australian brand. I would prefer something European. 

 

Also I want a simple kit.

1st: it's a 30 years old car. No need to perform perfectly and being adjustable for every purpose just have fun. I just want to have a set firmer than usual setup bilstein valved+ eibach spring. I hope that I will have something we'll balanced with a firmer spring and better cmvalving. 

2nd : don't want to every year do a maintenance.

3rd: prefer to be able to pass technical inspection freely, with insurance working with that setup -> shocks+spring. We have one insurance in France that accept some mods. Want to make it simple. 

 

Even if it's hard to find the bilstein dampers, once I got them everything is much easier. Specially back in France where we have a lot of companies working on them 

[FabM]

Hy everyone. 

Well for those who wants to know I've found a company: Ennepetal is able to recreate shocks here in Japan. So do all in one instead of finding second hand bilstein modded back in France. 

So I'm making my setup for the gtst to replace my old Cusco. 

New spring setup is:

Tein spring 5.7kg -45mm front, 4.6kg -30mm rear. 

My request regarding the bilstein shocks to Ennepetal: 

B6 valved for those springs with 7 C-Rings spaced from 5mm.

That's a lot C rings ^^ but regarding that front springs are -45mm which is too much low and much lower than rear, I want to be able to adjust to set 4corners to around 335mm max (center wheel to front guard) for street, to a bit more higher when go tracking. And if I change spring to go back on 30mm max on 4corners, then I'm still OK with those CRings balanced from rear and front adjustment needs.  

Will see how it works, I'm sure after a few test I would be able to know really how much less C rings I would have need but it's better to be safe now than to say sorry later. 

I could have make a different choice like 5 CRings with 7or5mm space between but I'm blind on oem ride height as I didn't find the exact answer for gtst. 

Knowing that informations on total height of vehicule varies from 1340 to 1325mm for gtr or gtst and that I can go slightly lower with the gtst compare to gtr, so I had to base my choice on the gtr info (360 rear and 370mm front from center wheels to guard), regarding all those info here on the forum. Thanks Sydneykid and all! 

So request have been made to Ennepetal to recreate them which is good news. Not cheaper than coilovers 162800¥ chipped, but fit my needs. 

Regarding anti rolling bars I keep up with oem front bar ~21mm with those harder spring/b6 set, might be fine for my use. Just adjust the rods to get back to horizontal as even now at 340mm it isn't. And regarding rear I pick up for nothing a rear 21mm from 180sx to replace the 16mm oem one, just to keep a correct balance handling not too much oriented understeering, also removing hicas.

 Well, that is for now my theory^^

Will see later if I need full whiteline 24mm adjustable bar setup and more caster camber. 

 

[GTSBoy]

Whiteline 24mm bars are a bit too stiff, IMO. Certainly at the rear. I have 22 at the rear, 24 at the front, set to softest. Could probably survive with a 22 at the front also.

I have had 24 at the rear, and it was too much, even set to the softest.

[FabM]

That's what I'm thinking for now, so stay with front oem sway bar is fine for now. Just upgrade a bit rear side for a bit more oversteering compensation. 

Will see later but my next concern will probably:

adjust rear subframe height

verify rear geometry

put some adjustable link for front swaybar back to horizontal

and first of all adjust my caster rod and verify that Cusco fixed 3.5 camber arm are not too much.