R32 engine upgrading progression

[Murray_Calavera]

15 minutes ago, Sleepergm said:

He’s an actual tuner… he did it 15 years ago or so though. Said he wouldn’t run catless again without a tune. 
 

honestly I want to run no cat to shot flames out the exhaust on a tune and also get higher boost level quicker with less restriction. 

Ah ok, probably safe to say he still isn't making the same mistake 15 years later lol. 

With regards to the flames, are you talking anti-lag or just some flames on overrun when you shift gears at high RPM?

[joshuaho96]

5 hours ago, Sleepergm said:

I think it improves throttle response quite alot with the power band and also helps even flow out to cylinder 6 which can be an issue with the stock manifold. But it’s 3k aud plus so not sure it’s cost effective. 

It doesn't really do that much for for throttle response. I drove the car before/after, either way the turbo lag at 2500 RPM is a ton. If you want to reduce turbo lag start with VCAM. The cylinder 6 issue is real and the Nismo manifold helps with it but it is a huge pain to install. Most people will tell you to just pull the engine because that's how little clearance there is. And as others have said you can just run more fuel in the rear cylinders. It's not ideal but it does mostly fix the issue. Keep in mind at part throttle you need to adjust your throttles to be absolutely dead on according to the factory service manual or you will have weird uneven airflow issues anyways.

If you want aftermarket turbos for relatively minor power gains your options go something like Garrett GT2860R-7 (836026-5004S) or HKS GTIII-SS these days. The GT2859R-9 (836026-5002S) is supposedly discontinued, as are the Nismo R3 turbos. I don't recommend the GT2860R-5 (836026-5005S) or the GTX2860R gen 2 (849894-5001S) or frankly the HKS GTIII-2530 or GTIII-RS. The factory twin turbo setup has a lot of weird issues and the more power you make the more noticeable they become (rear turbo running hotter, compressor shuffle at part throttle because the turbos are fighting each other, generally terrible turbo lag). 

If you paid for the HKS advanced heritage intake that is worth keeping but I would not bother with their green mushroom pods. It might flow more air yes but the filters are barely capable of catching rocks much less anything more than that. They disintegrate easily and require frequent replacement and oiling. Just stick to a stock intake if you still have it.

I would definitely start thinking about aftermarket ECU tuning now and not later. Start when the car is in a known good state so you aren't stuck figuring out whether it's the ECU or the engine. Then you can do whatever you want with decats and all that fun stuff.

[Sleepergm]

1 hour ago, Murray_Calavera said:

Ah ok, probably safe to say he still isn't making the same mistake 15 years later lol. 

With regards to the flames, are you talking anti-lag or just some flames on overrun when you shift gears at high RPM?

Talking more shifting at high rpm’s or letting off the gas at high rpm’s. Right now I feel the car is lacking a lot on exhaust sound also with just the silent hks exhaust and down pipes. 
 

Need to open up the Godzilla so to speak I feel. But then again my other car is a str piped f430 which sounds like a f1 car now. Exhaust sound somewhere in between now and the f430 would be great - decimal wise. 

[Sleepergm]

1 hour ago, joshuaho96 said:

It doesn't really do that much for for throttle response. I drove the car before/after, either way the turbo lag at 2500 RPM is a ton. If you want to reduce turbo lag start with VCAM. The cylinder 6 issue is real and the Nismo manifold helps with it but it is a huge pain to install. Most people will tell you to just pull the engine because that's how little clearance there is. And as others have said you can just run more fuel in the rear cylinders. It's not ideal but it does mostly fix the issue. Keep in mind at part throttle you need to adjust your throttles to be absolutely dead on according to the factory service manual or you will have weird uneven airflow issues anyways.

If you want aftermarket turbos for relatively minor power gains your options go something like Garrett GT2860R-7 (836026-5004S) or HKS GTIII-SS these days. The GT2859R-9 (836026-5002S) is supposedly discontinued, as are the Nismo R3 turbos. I don't recommend the GT2860R-5 (836026-5005S) or the GTX2860R gen 2 (849894-5001S) or frankly the HKS GTIII-2530 or GTIII-RS. The factory twin turbo setup has a lot of weird issues and the more power you make the more noticeable they become (rear turbo running hotter, compressor shuffle at part throttle because the turbos are fighting each other, generally terrible turbo lag). 

If you paid for the HKS advanced heritage intake that is worth keeping but I would not bother with their green mushroom pods. It might flow more air yes but the filters are barely capable of catching rocks much less anything more than that. They disintegrate easily and require frequent replacement and oiling. Just stick to a stock intake if you still have it.

I would definitely start thinking about aftermarket ECU tuning now and not later. Start when the car is in a known good state so you aren't stuck figuring out whether it's the ECU or the engine. Then you can do whatever you want with decats and all that fun stuff.

Thanks for the feedback and recommendations 

[Murray_Calavera]

1 hour ago, Sleepergm said:

Talking more shifting at high rpm’s or letting off the gas at high rpm’s. Right now I feel the car is lacking a lot on exhaust sound also with just the silent hks exhaust and down pipes. 
 

Need to open up the Godzilla so to speak I feel. But then again my other car is a str piped f430 which sounds like a f1 car now. Exhaust sound somewhere in between now and the f430 would be great - decimal wise. 

I can't see any issues with running a cat and having the setup you're after. A high quality metal cat will hold up no problems to what you'd be asking from it.

[niZmO_Man]

Holy moly that undercarriage. Wet dream for R32 owners (like myself).

[Sleepergm]

14 minutes ago, niZmO_Man said:

Holy moly that undercarriage. Wet dream for R32 owners (like myself).

Yeah thanks … the car is also extremely sharp and precise with its handling. Handles better than my friends with only  15k on the motor. 
 

just ordered all the parts for the hks gtr3 ss turbo setup and all the other neccessary parts. It’s a long list that’s for sure. 
 

Will aim for something like this 👍🏻💪 my friends r32 at the shop. 

[Sleepergm]

Very happy today after I installed the hks race coil packs … makes a huge different with throttle response for me. 

[Sleepergm]

This is the setup I ended up ordering:

HKS

SQV Blow Off Valve
Oil Cooler Kit 
GTlll SS Kit
V Cam Step1 Kit 
Valve Stem Seal Kit 
Exhaust Cam 256⁰ 
Valve Spring 
Metal Head Gasket 
Air Flow Less Kit 
Nismo Fuel Pressure Reg 

hks race power coil packs 

hks race plugs 

Link G4X
Link Can Digital Lambda Bosch
Link Boost Controller excl switch
Link Map Sensor 4bar
Link XLS Loom
Link Canbus Con Loom
Link Can Ext Cable 2m
Cam Sensor Trigger Kit

ARP Head stud
ID1050 Injectors (6) 
600HP Fuel Pump
Twin Plate Clutch 

 

 

Already have hks intercooler, nismo oil pump, hks high flow intake, hks silent exhaust and downpipes … will run the car catless. 

Had to go all hks basically to hold value of my car in Hong Kong if I ever decide to sell her on. And couldn’t go single turbo even though I really wanted to because of resale of a mint vspec 2. What’s everyone think? Am I missing anything? 
 

thanks 

Edited February 6 by Sleepergm

[Sleepergm]

Also I’m quite curious what would a garage in aus usually charge to install everything minus the tuning and dyno time? Thanks 

[Murray_Calavera]

Probably doesn't matter much saying this now, but as for resale value, couldn't you have kept all of the stock parts and then come sale time (if it ever comes) swap it back to stock. 

Then you can enjoy whatever parts you want to run, single turbo etc and enjoy the good resale. Win win?

[Sleepergm]

7 hours ago, Murray_Calavera said:

Probably doesn't matter much saying this now, but as for resale value, couldn't you have kept all of the stock parts and then come sale time (if it ever comes) swap it back to stock. 

Then you can enjoy whatever parts you want to run, single turbo etc and enjoy the good resale. Win win?

Yes true … I have actually kept all my stock parts all boxed up and wrapped. But the work to reinstall them all is not an easy job. But I probably will head down this route in the future to reinstall if I can’t sell it upgraded. Plus the other issue is the police with a single turbo setup… enough issues with an upgraded twin setup for government checks. But I might just do it all considering later on when I want more power. 

[joshuaho96]

I don't really believe in the idea that everything has to be HKS in a car. HKS is a class leader in some regards (nobody else makes a VVT retrofit period), sometimes they do subtly different designs (crank trigger might have some advantages vs others on the market?), sometimes I have no idea what they're doing and it seems very phoned in like their mushroom pod filters.

For what it's worth this is what a US-based tuner reports using step 1 VCAM with the GTIII-SS turbos:

This is old news at this point but hopefully some day I'll be able to test this for myself and see if I can get numbers remotely resembling what they reported there.

[Sleepergm]

1 hour ago, joshuaho96 said:

I don't really believe in the idea that everything has to be HKS in a car. HKS is a class leader in some regards (nobody else makes a VVT retrofit period), sometimes they do subtly different designs (crank trigger might have some advantages vs others on the market?), sometimes I have no idea what they're doing and it seems very phoned in like their mushroom pod filters.

For what it's worth this is what a US-based tuner reports using step 1 VCAM with the GTIII-SS turbos:

This is old news at this point but hopefully some day I'll be able to test this for myself and see if I can get numbers remotely resembling what they reported there.

Thanks that must just be v cam and turbo bolted on above stock …? My friend is running a similar setup to mine and pulling 520hp on 98 octane to the crank. 

[joshuaho96]

8 hours ago, Sleepergm said:

Thanks that must just be v cam and turbo bolted on above stock …? My friend is running a similar setup to mine and pulling 520hp on 98 octane to the crank. 

The Mustang dyno quoted there is an AWD dyno so there is substantial power loss from that. They also tend to read low compared to other dynos. This is also on ~97 RON (92 AKI) premium fuel.

[Sleepergm]

41 minutes ago, joshuaho96 said:

The Mustang dyno quoted there is an AWD dyno so there is substantial power loss from that. They also tend to read low compared to other dynos. This is also on ~97 RON (92 AKI) premium fuel.

Yeah makes sense .. hoping I can make a little more power than that with all the bolt ons. With the r32 being such a light car and responsive in handling I think I should still have a lot of fun with this setup. Otherwise I might have to go to single turbo and bottom end rebuild. But for resale don’t want to upgrade the rods and pistons. 

[Sleepergm]

Heres another dyno I think I found on the forum… 

[joshuaho96]

13 hours ago, Sleepergm said:

Yeah makes sense .. hoping I can make a little more power than that with all the bolt ons. With the r32 being such a light car and responsive in handling I think I should still have a lot of fun with this setup. Otherwise I might have to go to single turbo and bottom end rebuild. But for resale don’t want to upgrade the rods and pistons. 

You can get a lot more power out of any given turbo if you use E85 or a similar high octane fuel: https://www.facebook.com/Dynosty/videos/528591662283860/

 

 

The other thing is a lot of people don't set up HKS VCAM correctly. If you only change cam timing with respect to engine RPM you're missing out on a lot of potential gain in response. Part throttle cam advance causes some internal EGR which means more steady state exhaust mass flow through the turbine. Unfortunately because HKS VCAM is only intake side you can't pull tricks like advancing exhaust cam timing dramatically to get a much stronger exhaust blowdown: https://www.enginelabs.com/news/spooling-up-tuning-dohc-variable-valve-timing-for-boost/