Overheating issues

[Sleepergm]

Hi all,

 

so after my hks ss turbo complete setup with all the trimmings and a tune … I have sometimes my ecu cutting boost most likely because of water temps going too high… safe guard in the tune. Suspect ppl are running aftermarket water temp gauges and sensors as the stock one is very inaccurate? 
 

just a background it’s currently 36 degrees in the day and 90 percent humidity here. I had some issues after a 45 min drive at 6500 1.4-1.5 bar. 
 

What is everyone doing to get around this issue bar changing up to a more advance fan system? I have already upgraded the radiator to a more efficient one. But I guess I could go even better higher level. One I am running actually came with the car. 
 

heard these motors have serious over heating issues especially if u stop and start in traffic and it’s very hot. 
 

thanks 

[r32-25t]

Is the radiator shroud still on? 

[MBS206]

So you THINK it's overheating, and are only GUESSING it is, because you THINK the ECU is hitting a heat cut?

 

Do you have any datalogs to prove this?

Is the temperature gauge even moving?

 

Other than emotions and assumptions, what is telling you it's overheating?

 

What ECU do you even have?

[Milkmun]

What actual temperature is it hitting? 

[Sleepergm]

5 hours ago, MBS206 said:

So you THINK it's overheating, and are only GUESSING it is, because you THINK the ECU is hitting a heat cut?

 

Do you have any datalogs to prove this?

Is the temperature gauge even moving?

 

Other than emotions and assumptions, what is telling you it's overheating?

 

What ECU do you even have?

Running a complete link setup now with a tune… reason I think it’s heat related as it only does the cut off after 30 mins of driving in the heat and didn’t do it at night time when the temp came down. Otherwise will look at the data and possible change the over boost max boost settings on the ecu. But yeah your right little guessing… 

[Sleepergm]

4 hours ago, Milkmun said:

What actual temperature is it hitting? 

This is the issue as the stock gauge I have heard won’t really read correctly and if it moves up it’s already too late. Mine moved up a little - I would say just past middle. Hence my motor wasn’t cutting off below 6500 max boost, I think if the temp was really high it wouldn’t go pass 3000 … that’s why I wanted to run a separate more efficient water guage and sensor to check readings closer - if anyone else is running them? And add a boost gauge while I’m at it. 

[Sleepergm]

5 hours ago, r32-25t said:

Is the radiator shroud still on? 

Yes if u mean by the plastic section behind the radiator? 

[GTSBoy]

Yes, the fan shroud.

[joshuaho96]

14 hours ago, Sleepergm said:

Hi all,

 

so after my hks ss turbo complete setup with all the trimmings and a tune … I have sometimes my ecu cutting boost most likely because of water temps going too high… safe guard in the tune. Suspect ppl are running aftermarket water temp gauges and sensors as the stock one is very inaccurate? 
 

just a background it’s currently 36 degrees in the day and 90 percent humidity here. I had some issues after a 45 min drive at 6500 1.4-1.5 bar. 
 

What is everyone doing to get around this issue bar changing up to a more advance fan system? I have already upgraded the radiator to a more efficient one. But I guess I could go even better higher level. One I am running actually came with the car. 
 

heard these motors have serious over heating issues especially if u stop and start in traffic and it’s very hot. 
 

thanks 

Make sure the radiator fan shroud is on and in good condition. Make sure all the radiator guides are in place. Make sure your intercooler isn't restricting too much airflow to the radiator. Change your coolant out for a 30/70 glycol/water mixture instead of the normal factory recommended 50/50. Make sure your radiator is halfway decent, so not Mishimoto. Make sure your fan clutch is functioning properly. If you have the factory oil/coolant heat exchanger a larger oil cooler or better ducting can help take the load off the cooling system.

If your tune pulls out way too much timing to achieve the power figures that it does and the pressure peak is happening well after TDC turn down the boost. Less thermal efficiency means more of that heat is going into your coolant and engine oil instead of the wheels. E85 would likely help a lot in this situation as it naturally has more water dissolved in it and the combustion of alcohol releases a lot more water than gasoline.

I would also recommend doing some temperature logging of various fluid temperatures. Rear differential, transmission, transfer case, front differential, power steering fluid. Gear oil shouldn't exceed ~140C. If it is getting too close for comfort you might need to consider some method of cooling it off better. Keep in mind that these systems are kind of all interconnected. The oil pan holds the front diff for example and keeping the engine oil cool will help cool the front diff in turn.

[MBS206]

The first thing you need to do, is validate if you have a problem of overheating, or something else going on.

Do some data logs.

 

What is the whole spec of the car, and don't just say "bigger radiator", what brand, size, etc?

What FMIC, what's done to the motor?

[Sleepergm]

6 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

Yes, the fan shroud.

Yes still have that .. what to keep the stock parts and plastic bits relatively stock looking as I started off with a pristine vspec specimen. Will resell her in a couple years. Is this stroud restrictive? 

[Sleepergm]

3 hours ago, joshuaho96 said:

Make sure the radiator fan shroud is on and in good condition. Make sure all the radiator guides are in place. Make sure your intercooler isn't restricting too much airflow to the radiator. Change your coolant out for a 30/70 glycol/water mixture instead of the normal factory recommended 50/50. Make sure your radiator is halfway decent, so not Mishimoto. Make sure your fan clutch is functioning properly. If you have the factory oil/coolant heat exchanger a larger oil cooler or better ducting can help take the load off the cooling system.

If your tune pulls out way too much timing to achieve the power figures that it does and the pressure peak is happening well after TDC turn down the boost. Less thermal efficiency means more of that heat is going into your coolant and engine oil instead of the wheels. E85 would likely help a lot in this situation as it naturally has more water dissolved in it and the combustion of alcohol releases a lot more water than gasoline.

I would also recommend doing some temperature logging of various fluid temperatures. Rear differential, transmission, transfer case, front differential, power steering fluid. Gear oil shouldn't exceed ~140C. If it is getting too close for comfort you might need to consider some method of cooling it off better. Keep in mind that these systems are kind of all interconnected. The oil pan holds the front diff for example and keeping the engine oil cool will help cool the front diff in turn.

Great info as usual. Thanks … 

 

im already running a hks oil cooler. I will check my coolant mixture - that’s interesting. 
 

I guess if the problem persists the next stage is to run datalogging but I will need to do this when the temperatures are crazy hot. Hong Kong is going thru a heat wave right now. 

[GTSBoy]

52 minutes ago, Sleepergm said:

Is this stroud restrictive?

No. The opposite. Life sucks when you remove it.

[joshuaho96]

2 hours ago, Sleepergm said:

Great info as usual. Thanks … 

 

im already running a hks oil cooler. I will check my coolant mixture - that’s interesting. 
 

I guess if the problem persists the next stage is to run datalogging but I will need to do this when the temperatures are crazy hot. Hong Kong is going thru a heat wave right now. 

30/70 should be standard in any tropical climate. If it never drops below 0C this is an easy way of getting more performance out of the cooling system. Nissan explicitly recommends this. If you want to go even more extreme you can go 100% distilled water with redline water wetter. Change it frequently if you do this as I'm doubtful on the corrosion protection. Make sure the airflow into and out of the cooler is managed. Don't use excessively restrictive mesh on the intake or exhaust for the oil cooler. A friend of mine has tested this himself when installing a front mount intercooler on his car. Seal up any gaps in the ducting. You may want to find some way of fitting a larger oil cooler in the space that the HKS cooler currently uses but that core is already pretty close to what is practically possible. You can also try to fit a cooler in the space where the OEM diverter valves live but that's a bit challenging like the HPI kit. Or you can take the F80 M3 approach and put one laying flat under the radiator/intercooler/etc but you need to be extremely careful about not scraping the underside of the car. F80s are notorious for emptying their oil pans when someone takes a speed bump too aggressively or scraping on a curb.

Edited July 12 by joshuaho96

[MBS206]

30 minutes ago, joshuaho96 said:

30/70 should be standard in any tropical climate. If it never drops below 0C this is an easy way of getting more performance out of the cooling system. Nissan explicitly recommends this. If you want to go even more extreme you can go 100% distilled water with redline water wetter. Change it frequently if you do this as I'm doubtful on the corrosion protection. Make sure the airflow into and out of the cooler is managed. Don't use excessively restrictive mesh on the intake or exhaust for the oil cooler. A friend of mine has tested this himself when installing a front mount intercooler on his car. Seal up any gaps in the ducting. You may want to find some way of fitting a larger oil cooler in the space that the HKS cooler currently uses but that core is already pretty close to what is practically possible. You can also try to fit a cooler in the space where the OEM diverter valves live but that's a bit challenging like the HPI kit. Or you can take the F80 M3 approach and put one laying flat under the radiator/intercooler/etc but you need to be extremely careful about not scraping the underside of the car. F80s are notorious for emptying their oil pans when someone takes a speed bump too aggressively or scraping on a curb.

Those setups of laying a cooler flat isn't just a case of lay the cooler flat. 

There's a bunch of aero that goes into it too.

Its why some cars if you even take the plastic under tray off they can start having hot/cold issues.

[joshuaho96]

15 hours ago, MBS206 said:

Those setups of laying a cooler flat isn't just a case of lay the cooler flat. 

There's a bunch of aero that goes into it too.

Its why some cars if you even take the plastic under tray off they can start having hot/cold issues.

Yes, in the case of the F80 it's basically such that air from the front of the car that would want to bypass the radiator/charge cooler/condenser stack is instead forced down through the oil cooler and then ducted out the bottom. It's definitely annoyingly complicated and not that simple. Power steering also suffers from similar problems, the factory "cooler" is just some fins attached to one of the hardlines running along the subframe and it's not really good enough to keep the fluid from boiling/out of the reservoir under track use.

[r32-25t]

I had been led to believe BMWs were out of the box race cars 

[joshuaho96]

8 minutes ago, r32-25t said:

I had been led to believe BMWs were out of the box race cars 

The F80/G80 are pretty close, just don't bottom out/scrape on anything substantial because all that's protecting the oil cooler from puking 7 quarts out is a crappy piece of plastic they call a skid plate. Not unusual to take off the covers and discover that the whole cooler is bent and needs replacement.

Edited July 12 by joshuaho96

[r32-25t]

So you’re saying they’re plastic junk like every other car these days

[MBS206]

3 hours ago, r32-25t said:

So you’re saying they’re plastic junk like every other car these days

Oh they definitely are plastic junk.

I'm also concerned at him giving advise to lay an oil cooler perfectly horizontal, without mentioning anyway of getting air flow through it, even though he recognises it's quite tricky and complicated.

 

The best advice for this thread, has been given, and it's not start working on things and changing them, it's work out from hard data if there's an actual problem, and what the setup presently is. If we don't know what the setup is, we can end up chasing our tails around and around and around.