R32 Rb20det Starter Issues

[Prof_Finesser]

Hello again I'm having an issue with the starter not wanting to crank I have a wiring Specialties harness for r32 and I believe I have it set up right I have the signal and power from the battery going to the single post and then the start spade connector.  I made sure I had 12v on the starter post and it does and Im not sure what else to do.  I turn the key the only thing I hear is the injectors and fuel pump.  Any info is appreciated.  I put the install guide link 

 

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9F33_M_GgENUHJyMnpaRlk1Yzg

[TurboTapin]

11 minutes ago, Prof_Finesser said:

Hello again I'm having an issue with the starter not wanting to crank I have a wiring Specialties harness for r32 and I believe I have it set up right I have the signal and power from the battery going to the single post and then the start spade connector.  I made sure I had 12v on the starter post and it does and Im not sure what else to do.  I turn the key the only thing I hear is the injectors and fuel pump.  Any info is appreciated.  I put the install guide link 

 

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9F33_M_GgENUHJyMnpaRlk1Yzg

What do you mean by "Signal and power from battery to the single post" ? You should only have one 12VDC power cable from battery to stud on the starter and your start signal to the spade for a total of two wires to your starter. Your block also needs to be properly grounded. 

Edited July 12 by TurboTapin

[Prof_Finesser]

43 minutes ago, TurboTapin said:

What do you mean by "Signal and power from battery to the single post" ? You should only have one 12VDC power cable from battery to stud on the starter and your start signal to the spade for a total of two wires to your starter. Your block also needs to be properly grounded. 

theres the spade signal from the main harness and another eyelet connector that supposed to be on the starter post that comes also from the main harness and then the 12v power from battery aswell

[Prof_Finesser]

I used a screwdriver to power the starter and it works fine just won’t go from the key 

[joshuaho96]

17 minutes ago, Prof_Finesser said:

I used a screwdriver to power the starter and it works fine just won’t go from the key 

The starter signal from the ignition switch just connects the starter solenoid to ground. There will always be +12V on one side of the starter solenoid.

[Duncan]

I guess next step is to confirm there is not 12v on the loom side when you unplug that connector and hit start...there is likely a fuse popped somewhere

[Prof_Finesser]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

I guess next step is to confirm there is not 12v on the loom side when you unplug that connector and hit start...there is likely a fuse popped somewhere

Ok will try that tomorrow morning but wouldn’t it have 12v all the time because it’s connected to the battery in my case 

[Prof_Finesser]

1 hour ago, joshuaho96 said:

The starter signal from the ignition switch just connects the starter solenoid to ground. There will always be +12V on one side of the starter solenoid.

Yea I checked it’s at 12v but I’m not sure what else I can check?

[joshuaho96]

4 minutes ago, Prof_Finesser said:

Yea I checked it’s at 12v but I’m not sure what else I can check?

Have you checked that the starter signal fuse hasn't popped in the fuse box? This is the simplest thing to start with. Then verify that your ignition switch is providing a low resistance path from pin 5 to pin 1 when the ignition switch is turned to the start position:

 

I misspoke earlier about the starter motor being ground switched. Technically going by the circuit diagram the solenoid is always connected to ground and actually you have to provide +12V to it via the ignition switch to power it. If you have confirmed the switch is working normally then you're down to a wiring fault and you have to chase the signal wire from the harness back into the cabin. Most likely it is the Wiring Specialties harness. I have gotten mis-wired harnesses from them before.

[Prof_Finesser]

4 minutes ago, joshuaho96 said:

Have you checked that the starter signal fuse hasn't popped in the fuse box? This is the simplest thing to start with. Then verify that your ignition switch is providing a low resistance path from pin 5 to pin 1 when the ignition switch is turned to the start position:

 

I misspoke earlier about the starter motor being ground switched. Technically going by the circuit diagram the solenoid is always connected to ground and actually you have to provide +12V to it via the ignition switch to power it. If you have confirmed the switch is working normally then you're down to a wiring fault and you have to chase the signal wire from the harness back into the cabin. Most likely it is the Wiring Specialties harness. I have gotten mis-wired harnesses from them before.

Ok I checked the fuse it’s good but I’ll check the rest in the morning thanks for the info gonna hopefully figure this out tomorrow I wanted to do a first start on this built rb but gonna have to wait

[Duncan]

16 hours ago, Prof_Finesser said:

Ok will try that tomorrow morning but wouldn’t it have 12v all the time because it’s connected to the battery in my case 

The spade connector that goes onto the solenoid should only have 12v when the key is at the start position. If it is directly connected to battery the starter would have tried to run as soon as you connected the battery, which would have been quite the surprise since we generally have a car in gear when we are working on it

[Prof_Finesser]

2 minutes ago, Duncan said:

The spade connector that goes onto the solenoid should only have 12v when the key is at the start position. If it is directly connected to battery the starter would have tried to run as soon as you connected the battery, which would have been quite the surprise since we generally have a car in gear when we are working on it

ok ill check that for the 12v and the starter wont run if its connected to battery because it needs a signal? Im not sure what u mean and i dont have drive shaft hooked up ATM

[Duncan]

Sorry, I keep giving short answers.

So the starter motor main ground is because it is bolted to the engine block, which in turn has an earth strap to the body, then the battery.  The starter motor positive is a big, generally unfused wire attached to the battery +.

However, the starter only turns when it's solenoid gets a 12v signal from battery positive (a solenoid is just a big electrical switch). So when you shorted  the main starter power to the solenoid spade terminal with a screwdriver the starter turned, as you gave the solenoid 12v.

The solenoid normally gets 12v from battery + via the starter fuse then ignition switch to that spade...so it will have nothing on the wiring side of that spade terminal at most times, and you should have 12v there when the key is turned to Start per the diagram Josh posted.

So, assuming you don't have 12v at that terminal when you turn the key to start you need to check there is 12v at the fuse, check the  fuse is OK, check there is 12v at the start wire when you turn the key to start, and check continuity of all wiring in between those points

[Prof_Finesser]

4 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Sorry, I keep giving short answers.

So the starter motor main ground is because it is bolted to the engine block, which in turn has an earth strap to the body, then the battery.  The starter motor positive is a big, generally unfused wire attached to the battery +.

However, the starter only turns when it's solenoid gets a 12v signal from battery positive (a solenoid is just a big electrical switch). So when you shorted  the main starter power to the solenoid spade terminal with a screwdriver the starter turned, as you gave the solenoid 12v.

The solenoid normally gets 12v from battery + via the starter fuse then ignition switch to that spade...so it will have nothing on the wiring side of that spade terminal at most times, and you should have 12v there when the key is turned to Start per the diagram Josh posted.

So, assuming you don't have 12v at that terminal when you turn the key to start you need to check there is 12v at the fuse, check the  fuse is OK, check there is 12v at the start wire when you turn the key to start, and check continuity of all wiring in between those points

Ok thanks a lot ill check it all in a couple hours too hot right now.  What about the the ring terminal on the harness what would that be for it just says signal on it.  It is also is positive while the key in on mode right before start

 

[GTSBoy]

According to the photo, the start signal wire would not have a ring terminal on it. It would have a normal push on spade socket (the spade itself is the terminal on the starter solenoid).

Anything with a ring terminal would want to be the main, big, fat wire that actually carries the many many amps that run the starter motor itself.

In that photo, WS appear to be providing a pair of fat wires to the starter, one from the alternator output and one from the battery - effectively making the connection between the alternator and the battery at the starter. I dunno. Maybe this is the way it is done with vehicles with the battery in the boot (because the batter wire comes from the rear, under the car. But I think on front battery cars the connection is typically direct from alt to battery. The battery to starter connection is also direct, so the common point is at the battery, not the starter.

Either will work, but the loom really should reflect the chassis as well as the engine.

[Prof_Finesser]

5 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

According to the photo, the start signal wire would not have a ring terminal on it. It would have a normal push on spade socket (the spade itself is the terminal on the starter solenoid).

Anything with a ring terminal would want to be the main, big, fat wire that actually carries the many many amps that run the starter motor itself.

In that photo, WS appear to be providing a pair of fat wires to the starter, one from the alternator output and one from the battery - effectively making the connection between the alternator and the battery at the starter. I dunno. Maybe this is the way it is done with vehicles with the battery in the boot (because the batter wire comes from the rear, under the car. But I think on front battery cars the connection is typically direct from alt to battery. The battery to starter connection is also direct, so the common point is at the battery, not the starter.

Either will work, but the loom really should reflect the chassis as well as the engine.

I talked to WS they said I could either have a charge cable connecting the alt to the starter or the alt to the fuse box which I have it.  The two wires shown are one from the alt to starter and the other is the ring terminal from the harness that says starter power.  Theres no power wire shown.  I asked him he said there should be in power wire from the battery, the ring terminal from the harness, and then finally the signal spade connector I have it set up like that currently.  I'm just gonna test all the stuff Duncan said and will get back to yall.

[MBS206]

2 hours ago, Prof_Finesser said:

I talked to WS they said I could either have a charge cable connecting the alt to the starter or the alt to the fuse box which I have it.  The two wires shown are one from the alt to starter and the other is the ring terminal from the harness that says starter power.  Theres no power wire shown.  I asked him he said there should be in power wire from the battery, the ring terminal from the harness, and then finally the signal spade connector I have it set up like that currently.  I'm just gonna test all the stuff Duncan said and will get back to yall.

From you photo, you should have two really big thick cables on your starter motor, connected via a big ring connector. Both of these should be on the same big stud.

 

The solenoid on the starter motor should then have a small spade connector. This is the signal wire for starting.

 

Big fat thick wires should be constant 12V, like always.

That small thin wire should only received 12v when you turn the key to start.

 

Now as there's a heap of wiring changes having been done here, my next question is, have you confirmed where the other end of that signal wire goes to?

If you're doing an aftermarket harness, chances are, there's a relay to be triggered somewhere. Track that down. Then also check out how the key wiring is done.

 

What other wiring apart from the engine harness is modified?

 

If your signal wire constantly reads 12V, you have a problem.

[Prof_Finesser]

Ok so I tested the fuse and it’s fine it’s reading 10.8v when key is at start position but the signal spade wire is where I believe the issues is I tested it like you guys said it reads a very now voltage about .15v and it gets that power after the key is turned to acc and on mode the voltage doesn’t change when I put it all the way to start mode. Gojjg to try and see what it goes to on the harness. 

[MBS206]

15 hours ago, Prof_Finesser said:

Ok so I tested the fuse and it’s fine it’s reading 10.8v when key is at start position but the signal spade wire is where I believe the issues is I tested it like you guys said it reads a very now voltage about .15v and it gets that power after the key is turned to acc and on mode the voltage doesn’t change when I put it all the way to start mode. Gojjg to try and see what it goes to on the harness. 

Pull that wire off the starter, and then test again.

 

Then reconfirm what I said above or we can't help you back trace this.

 

From here, it could be as simple as a wire with stupidly high resistance.

[Prof_Finesser]

12 hours ago, MBS206 said:

Pull that wire off the starter, and then test again.

 

Then reconfirm what I said above or we can't help you back trace this.

 

From here, it could be as simple as a wire with stupidly high resistance.

ok found the issue I told them before I had the harness made that the car was originally auto I talked to WS today and they had asked if the car was auto before and I said yeah.  The parking switch needed to be jumped with a wire I did and now it starts.  Thank you guys for the info though.