Thinking of getting a Q50 300hp and just tuning it instead of getting the Q50 Red or 400R

[180 wanabe]

So next year I am looking at upgrading from my VE SS bomadore ute to something more refined. 

I wanted to stick with a V8 but not anything German or Australian, either a coupe or a sedan.

So if I wanted anything newish that limited my options to either the Lexus RCF which I quite like. But with the price they demand and a kid on the way a 2 door coupe is probably not going to be the best idea.

The next best thing would be the ISF but the newest models are 2014 and commanding over 60k and even the older 2008 models in ok condition starting around 35k is kind of bullshit.

So I figured if I could not have the noise I could perhaps make do with easy power. Enter the infinity Q50 or Skyline equivalent.

The price difference between the 300 and 400hp models seems a bit crazy.

Right now there is 300hp Q50 one on carsales from a dealer with 61km for 27k drive away. If I wanted to get a 400hp Red or 400R car the prices seem to start at 43k

From my limited research it seems that the only differences are that the 400r/Red

1. Red runs more boost and a more aggressive tune.
2. There are are turbine speed sensors on the turbos.
3. Has 2 pumps for the water to air intercooler.
4. Runs an engine oil cooler.

I'm guessing that the exterior trims might look a little more sporty as well.

I had a lazy look for upgrades to bridge the gap on z1motorsports

They have kits that upgrade the water to air heat exchanger as well as the coolant pump which should give a non Red/400r better intercooling temps than the stock Red/400r. I added an engine oil cooler with a thermostat as well to try and make things as close as possible. Obviously the ECU is going to need a tickle. Having not done much in the way of research they also sell a ECU flashing tool with pre loaded tunes that are supposed to boost the non Red/400R by 100hp which adds 1k USD to the cost. The total cost of the parts @ the current time including shipping and taxes worked out to be $4350 AUD.

Personally I would rather get the car tuned on a dyno which would probably add more cost

Assuming the worst that you got a workshop to install the new parts I would guess no more than 5 hours would be required in the worst case @ 5 x $150 per hour = $750

So the total cost could be around $5100

So for easy number 5k + 27K = 32k

I guess that would leave some change left over to swap out the open diff and fit a LSD

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

[Duncan]

I reckon you are 100% right on the money.

The only reason I bought Red Sport instead of the base VR30 is that I am investigating racing it in Production Cars, and they require you to run a (mostly) standard car....therefore knowing exactly what was in the RS spec was important to me and I paid the extra.

Other than that, for sure I would have pocketed the $10k and spent them on mods instead. Plus the non-RS models are more likely to have had a nicer life prior. Just a warning though, mods always cost twice as much as they look like they will on paper

BTW you should also consider the 400R imports, they are about the same price as a local RS but 5+ years newer. Of course that comes with the usual warnings about finding parts, unhelpful nissan dealers and finding insurance

[180 wanabe]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

BTW you should also consider the 400R imports, they are about the same price as a local RS but 5+ years newer. Of course that comes with the usual warnings about finding parts, unhelpful nissan dealers and finding insurance

Yeah I would like to try and get a ADM car to reduce issues with insurance.

I've decided if I end up getting this car I will set it up to be a sleeper build, leave it looking stock/dad spec on the outside

I wonder if you can just drop in the 400r/Red/Z ECU or better still use a flashing tool to copy the map off one. Backup the factory map and then flash the 400hp cars onto the 300hp cars ECU?

[180 wanabe]

Also I'm a little turned off by the engine being only direct injected. If you put a catch can on early enough this should save all the build up on the valves and intake ports ?

Edited November 6, 2024 by 180 wanabe

[GTSBoy]

13 minutes ago, 180 wanabe said:

If you put a catch can on early enough this should save all the build up on the valves and intake ports ?

Nah, just slow it down.

[Duncan]

So these motors don't seem to have as big issues with DI port carbon as others do.

I also had a good run with my VK45DD cima, it did develop a light missfire at idle at around 300,000klm so I started using the subaru upper engine cleaner with each oil change and it improved (still happened occasionally)

So, my plan with this car is to add a catch can, do upper engine cleaner with every second service (ie every 10,000klm) and see how that goes, I'll pull the intake off sooner or later and have a look at the valves too.

On the ECU, you need an Ecutek tune; the Redsport ECU will expect sensors (turbo speed) and the 2nd water pump that the base model doesn't have...but I'd expect a tune (mostly more boost) is all you need to get there.

[180 wanabe]

Pretty sure that the Ecutek can also tune the TCM for quicker gear changes as well 

[Duncan]

1 hour ago, 180 wanabe said:

Pretty sure that the Ecutek can also tune the TCM for quicker gear changes as well 

Apparently announced on Instagram just this week; I can't access it and nothing on their website

Their GTR TCM information is here: https://ecutek.zendesk.com/hc/en-gb/articles/360001830657-Tuning-Your-TCM

[180 wanabe]

Think I found another reason to buy the Q50 rather than the skyline import, seems that unless you get the 400r the other models such as the GT miss out on the decent brakes and don't have the flappy paddles on the steering wheel to change gears.

Its my day off work today and the Q50 listed @ the dealer in Brisbane that I mentioned in my 1st post looks like it sold as its listed as no longer available... Would have checked it out but can understand why it sold as it was a bargain price.

[HYBRID VL]

from what i was told alot of options you can choose to get from the factory when buying a new Q50 you get standard with a Redsport or 400R.

Paddle shifters and so on plus the sports+ mode isnt on all standard Q50's im sure the wheels look different plus the 400R kit looks the best next to the LBWLK kit.

im sure there is alot more things that are different and im sure mine has LSD standard rear.

im sure i was told suspension is different aswell and turbos.

[HYBRID VL]

also the 400R will probley hold its value more but dont forget there is a Nismo model 400R aswell.

[HYBRID VL]

On 07/11/2024 at 11:54 AM, Duncan said:

Apparently announced on Instagram just this week; I can't access it and nothing on their website

Their GTR TCM information is here: https://ecutek.zendesk.com/hc/en-gb/articles/360001830657-Tuning-Your-TCM

so will this basically make the gearbox decent?

because it takes imo so long to shift gears and even drop back.

the response when you have it in manual mode is laot better but even the shift is like not instant will this change that?

[180 wanabe]

6 hours ago, HYBRID VL said:

also the 400R will probley hold its value more but dont forget there is a Nismo model 400R aswell.

That might be so, but as per my rough calculations in my 1st post at the current time of typing this, buying the Q50s and fitting the upgrades still yields around a 13k difference. So even if the Infinity doesn't hold its value its going to be 10 to 13k cheaper upfront with better upgrades than the stock 400r.

This allows plenty of left over budget to fit a tranny cooler, LSD, catch can, heck even new turbos if the std ones shit themselves. Probably cheaper insurance as well.

I can only hope that either the 400rs drop 10k in price around the middle of next year "my investment loan comes off fixed interest and I will refinance with a bit extra to fund the new car" or I can find another stock Q50s with low kms for even less than the one I found a few days ago which seems to be the more economical option. I could always just debadge the Q50 and swap the front grill for a Nissan one and slap on a 400r badge on the back to have the best of both worlds haha

[HYBRID VL]

You could do that by all means.

but yer it shouldnt be hard to get a VR30 to 400hp with an ECUtek on stock everything.

 

[Duncan]

23 hours ago, HYBRID VL said:

so will this basically make the gearbox decent?

because it takes imo so long to shift gears and even drop back.

the response when you have it in manual mode is laot better but even the shift is like not instant will this change that?

Not necessarily shift speed because that is most mechanical/hydraulic not electronic.

It should allow modification of shift up and down points and therefore stop the auto shifting when not wanted. On the dyno the other day it consistently changed by 6200 at full throttle 4th gear and the power curve was still rising 

I spent a bit of time with the paddles on a long drive yesterday and found the opposite to you; mine shifts faster up full throttle in auto while the delay for the paddles requires some learning to plan ahead. It also has an annoying habit of changing back to auto from manual mode at partial throttle (it does hold manual shift with no throttle like long downhills thankfully). So, I'd say they are useful for being in the right gear when you leave a corner, but not much else.

Sorry for the off topic....for me the big difference between an infiniti and JDM import is you get a much newer car with the JDM option for the same price or cheaper than local cars

[V35_Paul]

On 11/9/2024 at 11:13 AM, 180 wanabe said:

I can only hope that either the 400rs drop 10k in price around the middle of next year "my investment loan comes off fixed interest and I will refinance with a bit extra to fund the new car" or I can find another stock Q50s with low kms for even less than the one I found a few days ago which seems to be the more economical option. I could always just debadge the Q50 and swap the front grill for a Nissan one and slap on a 400r badge on the back to have the best of both worlds haha

[HYBRID VL]

On 10/11/2024 at 7:00 AM, Duncan said:

Not necessarily shift speed because that is most mechanical/hydraulic not electronic.

It should allow modification of shift up and down points and therefore stop the auto shifting when not wanted. On the dyno the other day it consistently changed by 6200 at full throttle 4th gear and the power curve was still rising 

I spent a bit of time with the paddles on a long drive yesterday and found the opposite to you; mine shifts faster up full throttle in auto while the delay for the paddles requires some learning to plan ahead. It also has an annoying habit of changing back to auto from manual mode at partial throttle (it does hold manual shift with no throttle like long downhills thankfully). So, I'd say they are useful for being in the right gear when you leave a corner, but not much else.

Sorry for the off topic....for me the big difference between an infiniti and JDM import is you get a much newer car with the JDM option for the same price or cheaper than local cars

im sure mine stays in gear and wont shift unless i shift it?

and for sure it wont go back to Auto mode if its put in manual mode?

if i use paddles but its still in D then of course it goes back to auto mode.

but yer if its in -+ and i use paddles it will not auto change gears what so ever and i have tried this.

it will gear down if at a stop though which is kinda nice but goes back to 1st gear not D.

i think it used to be like this with imports aswell i dunno if its really like it anymore like when i got my R33 it had alot of JDM options which local cars didnt have.

Now local cars have kinda caught up even the lower models.

but yer transfer rates and other things makes it almost on par.

[Duncan]

interesting....sounds like the later trans has software differences (or AM vs JDM).

If I wasn't going down the tuning route it would be worth looking into retrofitting a new computer to the old box.

[180 wanabe]

Also had a look at the Nissan JP website looks like the 400r has a slightly shorter ratio than than the regular V37 3.133 VS 2.937 which from a guy who has driven both 3.69 vs 4.11 ratios in the S15 is bugger all. Seems that the AUTO Z runs the same ratio as the 400R but can't find any info as to if its an open or LSD? More often than not the auto LSD is open

[180 wanabe]

So if I was to spend 400r money and remember I am only here because I need 4 doors because of an incoming kid otherwise I would be looking at a lexus RCF what am I loosing out on other than fuel economy but gaining in power and space / V8 sound on Chrysler 300c STR Vs nissan 400r?, I will admit that buying the VE bomadore was an eye opener into build quality compared to Jap cars...

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2020-chrysler-300-srt-core-auto-my20/SSE-AD-18201088/ but this one is on the same money...