How "plug and play" is the Haltech Pro for R33 GTST

[jacobzking]

I'm looking at the Haltech Platinum Pro ECU for my 93 R33 GTST.  With the base map loaded, should it be a plug n play with similar tune to OEM?  Or do they really need to be tuned, even on an otherwise stock car (intake, turbo-back exhaust)?  I do have an AEM wideband to monitor AFRs.

Also, I'm assuming I can use my Bosch sensor that's already installed on my downpipes (just before the high flow cat)?

Any tips for setting the thing up?  Other "upgrades" to consider to the ECU (z32 or r35 MAF)?  

Any info would be appreciated.  Thanks!!!

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

It is plug and play, load up the base map and off you go.

Throw the stock MAF(s) into the bin and run an intake manifold vacuum/boost reference to the ECU.

Preferably to run it to an external MAP sensor.

Get a Haltech CANbus wideband.

[Murray_Calavera]

If you haven't bought the ECU yet, I would strongly consider buying a modern ECU. Yes it is very easy to setup and tune, however it is lacking many of the features of a modern ECU.

The pro plug in is something like 10 or 12 years old now? Can't remember exactly but it is very dated now. In that time the Elite was released and now we have the Nexus platform. 

I would strongly consider not buying the ECU that is 3 generations old now (especially as it isn't a cheap ECU!). 

[jacobzking]

10 hours ago, Murray_Calavera said:

If you haven't bought the ECU yet, I would strongly consider buying a modern ECU. Yes it is very easy to setup and tune, however it is lacking many of the features of a modern ECU.

The pro plug in is something like 10 or 12 years old now? Can't remember exactly but it is very dated now. In that time the Elite was released and now we have the Nexus platform. 

I would strongly consider not buying the ECU that is 3 generations old now (especially as it isn't a cheap ECU!). 

best advice yet.  so between the elite and the nexus... much of a difference?  cost is damn near identical (only $170 difference).  thank you!!!

[Duncan]

12 hours ago, Murray_Calavera said:

If you haven't bought the ECU yet, I would strongly consider buying a modern ECU. Yes it is very easy to setup and tune, however it is lacking many of the features of a modern ECU.

The pro plug in is something like 10 or 12 years old now? Can't remember exactly but it is very dated now. In that time the Elite was released and now we have the Nexus platform. 

I would strongly consider not buying the ECU that is 3 generations old now (especially as it isn't a cheap ECU!). 

Yeah I agree. I have the Plat Pro on the race car because plug in was important, but I wouldn't buy one for a current car. While they are still happy to sell them (pretty expensive), they don't support them any more; no software updates since about 1996, limited or no support for newer features on the CAN etc etc

[Murray_Calavera]

3 hours ago, jacobzking said:

best advice yet.  so between the elite and the nexus... much of a difference?  cost is damn near identical (only $170 difference).  thank you!!!

Haltech have a nice comparison table between the Elite and Nexus models - 

https://www.haltech.com/ecu-buyers-guide/

In general, the Nexus is better. Haltech have some nice product videos on their YouTube page, I'd have a look at those and if you're still not confident what way to go, I'd give them a call. They have the best customer support of any company I've dealt with, I'm sure they'll be able to help you out. 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Very true, if buying new, I would not get an PP either.

Minimum is an Elite 2500, which is also considered outdated.

Get something that supports DBW, delete that cable throttle. Best thing I've ever done to the Skyline, next best is refreshing the A/C with a new condenser. It's cold, but not as cold as modern car, but colder than most 90s JDM shit boxes imported into Australia.

[joshuaho96]

Only reason to keep a MAF on your RB25 is to be able to easily calculate true VE if you know what the factory voltage curve represents in grams per second of flow. Also allows you to do things like pull the original OEM ignition + AFR target tables and use those as a starting point for your base map. Once you're well and truly done tuning though there's no need to retain the MAF.

[Watermouse]

6 hours ago, jacobzking said:

best advice yet.  so between the elite and the nexus... much of a difference?  cost is damn near identical (only $170 difference).  thank you!!!

I just bought the Nexus S3 for my gtt, haven’t installed it yet as I’m collecting parts to do everything at once…so far spent $14,000

The Nexus is nearly future proof

[Murray_Calavera]

7 hours ago, joshuaho96 said:

Only reason to keep a MAF on your RB25 is to be able to easily calculate true VE if you know what the factory voltage curve represents in grams per second of flow. Also allows you to do things like pull the original OEM ignition + AFR target tables and use those as a starting point for your base map. Once you're well and truly done tuning though there's no need to retain the MAF.

I would not be surprised if you are the only person on earth that has the interest/desire to do that lol. 

The Haltech base map is a really good starting point, the car will fire easily and drive very well, even on mild boost levels. To me, following your advice sounds like some sort of ancient Chinese water torcher lol (this is not an insult Josh, never change <3)

[joshuaho96]

On 12/23/2024 at 11:18 PM, Murray_Calavera said:

I would not be surprised if you are the only person on earth that has the interest/desire to do that lol. 

The Haltech base map is a really good starting point, the car will fire easily and drive very well, even on mild boost levels. To me, following your advice sounds like some sort of ancient Chinese water torcher lol (this is not an insult Josh, never change <3)

The second part yes, the first part about easy VE calculation is something I've seen a few people talk about online.

[GTSBoy]

1 hour ago, joshuaho96 said:

the first part about easy VE calculation is something I've seen a few people talk about online.

Yes, while being... strictly unnecessary.

Tuning is a bit like quantum physics. You don't need to understand what Schroedinger's equation actually means. You just need to run the computation and accept the answers. With tuning, you just push page up/down until the exhaust tells you that you've got the fuel right. The VE can stay hidden behind the curtain like the Wizard of Oz and you'll never need to know what he looked like.

[joshuaho96]

9 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

Yes, while being... strictly unnecessary.

Tuning is a bit like quantum physics. You don't need to understand what Schroedinger's equation actually means. You just need to run the computation and accept the answers. With tuning, you just push page up/down until the exhaust tells you that you've got the fuel right. The VE can stay hidden behind the curtain like the Wizard of Oz and you'll never need to know what he looked like.

You're not wrong, but more than a few times I've heard of people running into issues where their injector characterization isn't quite right and that approach works for that specific configuration but once they switch over to a new set they discover a whole bunch of stuff wasn't set up correctly. It's slightly more annoying to reverse engineer the OEM MAF transfer function but you already have the sensor wired up to the factory harness so keeping it around for a few weeks more while you figure out the tune is easy enough.

I've seen GM also use a combination of both MAF + MAP in their ECUs before, MAF is for steady state and a calculation of the cylinder VE to correct the base VE table, then in transients it uses that calculated VE + raw MAP to determine cylinder filling somehow.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

50 minutes ago, joshuaho96 said:

while you figure out the tune is easy enough.

There's no figuring out with a Haltech, you literally load up the base map, plug in the vac/boost reference from your manifold to the ECU (or an external MAP) sensor, wire up an IAT and it will run pretty well out of the box.

The ignition tables are quite well defined and safe enough for someone to give it a hit (although I don't recommend it if you've got anything besides the stock gear on the motor).

[joshuaho96]

3 hours ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

There's no figuring out with a Haltech, you literally load up the base map, plug in the vac/boost reference from your manifold to the ECU (or an external MAP) sensor, wire up an IAT and it will run pretty well out of the box.

The ignition tables are quite well defined and safe enough for someone to give it a hit (although I don't recommend it if you've got anything besides the stock gear on the motor).

I know it'll run, but from what I've seen the Haltech base map is actually quite a bit more conservative than the OEM stock map.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

12 minutes ago, joshuaho96 said:

I know it'll run, but from what I've seen the Haltech base map is actually quite a bit more conservative than the OEM stock map.

And that's great, perfect for your USDM and ADM fuel.

The off boost area of the map is defined very well, when compared to other manufacturers.

[joshuaho96]

4 hours ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

And that's great, perfect for your USDM and ADM fuel.

The off boost area of the map is defined very well, when compared to other manufacturers.

Are the factory timing tables actually that far off the mark? Even on CA ~95 RON I don't hear any gravel in a can. I do get some vibration around 1200 rpm just off idle and a light grumbling noise, but even when I've filled up with 106 RON fuel at 4.24 AUD/L none of that goes away. ECU also has never showed signs of switching over to knock maps. My plan was stick to factory timing up until it's at the last load column and ask for a trusted RB tuner to handle the rest. Probably not exceeding 1 bar on 95 RON, but we get E85 here so flex fuel should make it safe enough to run basically MBT timing considering I have no plans to bump the compression ratio over stock.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

1 hour ago, joshuaho96 said:

Are the factory timing tables actually that far off the mark? Even on CA ~95 RON I don't hear any gravel in a can

I will need to dig up Nistune maps and see how they look.

[Murray_Calavera]

1 hour ago, joshuaho96 said:

Are the factory timing tables actually that far off the mark? Even on CA ~95 RON I don't hear any gravel in a can. I do get some vibration around 1200 rpm just off idle and a light grumbling noise, but even when I've filled up with 106 RON fuel at 4.24 AUD/L none of that goes away. ECU also has never showed signs of switching over to knock maps. My plan was stick to factory timing up until it's at the last load column and ask for a trusted RB tuner to handle the rest. Probably not exceeding 1 bar on 95 RON, but we get E85 here so flex fuel should make it safe enough to run basically MBT timing considering I have no plans to bump the compression ratio over stock.

I have questions - 

* what are you using to detect knock? 

* do you have knock ears or any other way to listen to knock? 

* your driving a R33 yeah? what are the knock sensors your running, factory is the old school style yeah? Do you have modern bosch knock sensors? 

* have you deliberately induced knock to see what it looks like on your ECU/knock monitor and listened to it to hear what it sounds like?