ugently need expert / experienced opinion

[Kinkstaah]

14 hours ago, sunsetR33 said:

I'm aware that you can sink endless amounts of money into an engine. I don't want that kind of engie though. My power goal is 500, maybe 600hp at the max. I can get by with the nearly stock engine that I have now for that purpose and if it does need a rebuild at some point I would choose longer lasting components instead of the most ridiculously hp-rated ones. And do all the essentials of course.

500-600hp into a RB is already 'sinking endless amounts of money' into an engine. Especially a 30 year old engine.

Unfortunately this is the RB Game. Considering stock power (or at least stock components) will do ~360whp on 98 by simply turning up the boost on the stock gear on a RB26, that would be where I'd say the cutoff point for "sinking endless amounts of money into the engine"

Cause to even do this reliably you'd probably need to replace all the bits anyway cause they're old, starting your sinking journey anyway.

I reckon the least painful way is rebuilding the engine to make 50hp over stock lol. The 'plan your ownership around a rebuild' was a common saying 15 years ago.

[sunsetR33]

11 hours ago, Kinkstaah said:

Cause to even do this reliably you'd probably need to replace all the bits anyway cause they're old, starting your sinking journey anyway.

I reckon the least painful way is rebuilding the engine to make 50hp over stock lol. The 'plan your ownership around a rebuild' was a common saying 15 years ago.

From what I understand, stock internals should hold out for a while even if you run 500 at the crank, no? Especially if you don't run a modern turbo setup that reaches power and torque much earlier than the original twins.

My engine isn't unopened either, it has N1 Pumps, head oil restrictor, new crank and cams, new piston rings, ARP head studs and Cometic headgasket along with 2860-5s. Considering everything is healthy this should run fine for a while I assume.
Once my engine stops leaking shit everywhere, it'll be tuned to 370 crank first anyway, because I need to legalize the turbo setup.

If I end up needing a new engine because my block actually has an issue, even though GTSboy was adamant that the whole porous block story is nonsense, before putting an engine in I'm probably gonna take care of the weakspots.

[GTSBoy]

1 hour ago, sunsetR33 said:

From what I understand, stock internals should hold out for a while even if you run 500 at the crank, no?

Yes, but no but yes but no. Those "it's fine up to 500HP" rules and everything else like it were all determined back when the cars were 10 years old. As they are now 30 years old.....what do you reckon the chances of something shitting the bed are? I'd say they are much higher now than they used to be. You might be lucky. You might be unlucky. Spin the wheel and find out.

1 hour ago, sunsetR33 said:

Especially if you don't run a modern turbo setup that reaches power and torque much earlier than the original twins.

Yeah, nah. It's actually exactly the opposite. Making boost early and having heaps of torque able to be generated right in the middle of the rev range will do more to damage an engine than having to rev it high to make the power. Think about the load on the conrods, bearings, etc, to make 400HP at 4000 rpm, vs 400 HP at 6500 rpm.

1 hour ago, sunsetR33 said:

My engine isn't unopened either,

So someone has already "let the Nissan out" which is how we describe the increased chance of a fiddled with engine to have had something done wrongly. Many more engines that have been opened die than stock ones do - even if you into consideration how they are treated wrt power levels and the like. Again, not saying that yours will definitely have been put back together by a moron. But the possibility does exist. It's still a lottery. Spin the wheel.

1 hour ago, sunsetR33 said:

I'm probably gonna take care of the weakspots.

What weakspots?

[sunsetR33]

5 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

Yes, but no but yes but no. Those "it's fine up to 500HP" rules and everything else like it were all determined back when the cars were 10 years old. As they are now 30 years old.....what do you reckon the chances of something shitting the bed are? I'd say they are much higher now than they used to be. You might be lucky. You might be unlucky. Spin the wheel and find out.

I'm hoping I just don't have to do an engine rebuild NOW. Doesn't mean I won't do it at some point. I think a plus point is that the car presumably ran on or close to stock power nearly all it's life so far. Only the Owner I bought it from actually increased power with a standalone ECU and blew the OEM turbos. And after it got thee 2860s it wasn't driven an awful lot either.
 

Quote

Yeah, nah. It's actually exactly the opposite. Making boost early and having heaps of torque able to be generated right in the middle of the rev range will do more to damage an engine than having to rev it high to make the power. Think about the load on the conrods, bearings, etc, to make 400HP at 4000 rpm, vs 400 HP at 6500 rpm.

That is what I meant. With the twins coming on so late (4500-5000rpm) I hope the rods won't want to exit the block prematurely. And it still being a 26 means the torque curve isn't gonna hike up all that much.
 

Quote

So someone has already "let the Nissan out" which is how we describe the increased chance of a fiddled with engine to have had something done wrongly. Many more engines that have been opened die than stock ones do - even if you into consideration how they are treated wrt power levels and the like. Again, not saying that yours will definitely have been put back together by a moron. But the possibility does exist. It's still a lottery. Spin the wheel.

It didn't blow up on the dyno when they tuned it to 500ish crank. So I suppose it'll be okay for now. They did put a Tomei head gasket on first though which did not seal at all, and they redid it with a Cometic one. Which I hope won't be my water leak.
 

Quote

What weakspots?

Mainly anything oil. So far all it has is the N1 pump, oil restrictor and a filter relocation kit with a cooler.

[GTSBoy]

7 hours ago, sunsetR33 said:

Mainly anything oil. So far all it has is the N1 pump, oil restrictor and a filter relocation kit with a cooler.

Good. I was worried we were still talking about the block.

Yes, larger baffled sump is a good idea. Do not touch the pump unless you're going on a whole build saga. Read the oil control thread on here - at least the last 100 pages or so. We drew some reasonable things together in there. The short version is that venting the sump is more important than almost anything else you do.

[sunsetR33]

2 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

Read the oil control thread on here - at least the last 100 pages or so. We drew some reasonable things together in there. The short version is that venting the sump is more important than almost anything else you do.

I already reached that conclusion myself after reading up a whole bunch and watching various videos from multiple sources. Don't know yet how I'd best manage that with the least amount of headache. Probably pulling the sump and just welding on a AN10 adapter or something.
I also think it's healthy to take most opinions with a grain of salt, because experiences differ wildly and especially Aussies - when talking about RBs - don't know a world below 600whp drag builds.

Personally I doubt I will ever take my R33 racing, so it's going to be a street car with the occasional spirited drive. Hence why I am (so far) under the impression that I'm going to be fine with a stock-ish engine for a while.

[GTSBoy]

1 hour ago, sunsetR33 said:

Personally I doubt I will ever take my R33 racing, so it's going to be a street car with the occasional spirited drive. Hence why I am (so far) under the impression that I'm going to be fine with a stock-ish engine for a while.

Yes, and so the barest minimum power target is the one that makes the most sense. Massive power is fun, but you can only use it for 1.5s at a time, and only every now and then. Medium power levels allow you to enjoy the car far more often and for longer.

500 engine HP is just below 300 rwkW which is about the maximum that is sensible for any street car really. And for a 2.6L six, it will still leave you with a decent boost response and some sort of linearity of power delivery. As you get up towards 400rwkW the onset of power tends to be increasingly like a cliff and you need drag radials to keep the ground in proper contact with the car, and.... it's just not a car for driving around any more.

[MBS206]

From my own first hand experience, keeping power for a fun Street able skyline down at a responsive low 200 wheel KW, is the best.

It makes it super drive able through the twisties, you're not just smashing mass wheel spin, or only able to open the throttle for a split second before being at absurd speeds.

That said, plenty of people like being morons at more than double the speed limit on public roads and hence are happy with 600whp and seeing 200kmh fly up frequently and fast.

Also, at that low 200, a GTR can still do a decent quarter mile, and with a bit of fancy  clutch work (foot, not the parts) can still beat many many cars in a traffic light gp, even in the wet.

[Duncan]

hey OP can you remind me what the actual question was, I got sidetracked at V12.

Do you have an turbo oil return leak and an unidentified coolant leak?

The factory oil returns are terrible design; short, rubber and expensive to replace. They are very common to fail and a pain to replace because they are so short. Still, they are available new if you want to replace both last time I checked.

For the coolant leak, any competent mechanic should be able to do a pressure test; that should show up where the leak is. It is almost certainly one of the billion 30 year old rubber lines which are now brittle as hell, you engine will be fine.

[Murray_Calavera]

4 hours ago, sunsetR33 said:

Don't know yet how I'd best manage that with the least amount of headache.

I'd say the easiest way is, pick up a extended and baffled sump with fittings already welded on. Here is an example, it has 3 x -10 fittings 

https://shop.maatouksracing.com.au/products/rb-extended-and-baffled-sump

[sunsetR33]

10 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

Yes, and so the barest minimum power target is the one that makes the most sense. Massive power is fun, but you can only use it for 1.5s at a time, and only every now and then. Medium power levels allow you to enjoy the car far more often and for longer.

Which I agree with. I don't want or need a high hp straight line car, I want it to be fun on the road and nothing more.
Hence why I said my max power goal will be around 500 crank. The few times I drove the car last year I didn't even use high boost and it was already quick enough for me, should have been around 380-400 crank I think (2860-5s at 1-1.1bar).

[sunsetR33]

9 hours ago, MBS206 said:

From my own first hand experience, keeping power for a fun Street able skyline down at a responsive low 200 wheel KW, is the best.

It makes it super drive able through the twisties, you're not just smashing mass wheel spin, or only able to open the throttle for a split second before being at absurd speeds.

I think for response I'm already kind of out there no? he -5s are not the best pick for that as the Internet tells me. Maybe I should switch to -7s while I still can?
Though that almost definitely warrants an engine pull along with the other issues I have.

[sunsetR33]

8 hours ago, Duncan said:

The factory oil returns are terrible design; short, rubber and expensive to replace. They are very common to fail and a pain to replace because they are so short. Still, they are available new if you want to replace both last time I checked.

Rear turbo is leaky, most likely at the oil drain. From what I could see with my boroscope it seemed to have seeped out at the very top of that return hose. Is it possible that the oil climbs up that hose to then leak out?

Quote

For the coolant leak, any competent mechanic should be able to do a pressure test; that should show up where the leak is. It is almost certainly one of the billion 30 year old rubber lines which are now brittle as hell, you engine will be fine.

Yup, coolant leak on the hot side of the engine, only noticed after seeing clear rusty residue in the block right from the turbo oil feed downwards to the pan, and red droplets hanging from the pan. No clear sign yet from where it comes, and most of the lines there are hardlines right?
Last year, seeing those red drops, I thought it was power steering, will be glad if that is not leaky at least.
Another leaking hose I found by chance is the lower of the two heater core hoses coming from the firewall to the back of the head. That one is not too bad to get to if I have to replace.

[sunsetR33]

7 hours ago, Murray_Calavera said:

I'd say the easiest way is, pick up a extended and baffled sump with fittings already welded on. Here is an example, it has 3 x -10 fittings 

https://shop.maatouksracing.com.au/products/rb-extended-and-baffled-sump

That specific one would be an exchange part, meaning I'd have to send mine to them. Plus it looks like a non AWD sump, which won't work for me.
There is one or two shops in my country that I can ask to do a sump extension job and it'd most likely end up being cheaper than sending mine to AUS or NZ and getting one back, and quicker too.

[GTSBoy]

1 hour ago, sunsetR33 said:

That specific one would be an exchange part, meaning I'd have to send mine to them. Plus it looks like a non AWD sump, which won't work for me.
There is one or two shops in my country that I can ask to do a sump extension job and it'd most likely end up being cheaper than sending mine to AUS or NZ and getting one back, and quicker too.

There's more than one way to skin that cat, and most of the sump Maatouks have done will be GTR sumps. They are HUGE in GTR drag racing here.

[sunsetR33]

2 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

There's more than one way to skin that cat, and most of the sump Maatouks have done will be GTR sumps. They are HUGE in GTR drag racing here.

I am aware of their presence, but the product page looked like that conversion will eliminate the AWD capability.

Fact remains it's kind of a hassle to send my oil sump halfway around the world and buying an extra one is expensive and unnecessary. Before I go hat route I'd explore more local options. 
 

Would you recommend I just pull the engine and renew as many things as possible since I'm already having problems with some leaks? Would have to get an engine crane first though.

[Duncan]

9 hours ago, sunsetR33 said:

Rear turbo is leaky, most likely at the oil drain. From what I could see with my boroscope it seemed to have seeped out at the very top of that return hose. Is it possible that the oil climbs up that hose to then leak out?

Certainly. It is probably broken under the wire style clamp. At least that one is easier to get at than the front one.

 

9 hours ago, sunsetR33 said:

Yup, coolant leak on the hot side of the engine, only noticed after seeing clear rusty residue in the block right from the turbo oil feed downwards to the pan, and red droplets hanging from the pan. No clear sign yet from where it comes, and most of the lines there are hardlines right?
Last year, seeing those red drops, I thought it was power steering, will be glad if that is not leaky at least.
Another leaking hose I found by chance is the lower of the two heater core hoses coming from the firewall to the back of the head. That one is not too bad to get to if I have to replace.

Sounds like it isn't a major leak, I'd start with backing off the the water feed and return banjos into the turbos half a turn then tightening properly. Hardlines can still crack over time, either in the tube (particularly when turbos are changed if the banjo is siezed in the the tube) or at the brazed joins between the lines and the banjo fittings. A coolant system pressure test will reveal all.

BTW you'd be able to get a sump without exchange, it will just cost more as they will have to source another stock one for the next customer. If you want to address the sump a much better option is something like this https://www.hioctanedirect.com/hi-octane-racing-sump-extension-nissan-rb26 that you weld in locally (and add the oil return fittings at the same time)

[joshuaho96]

20 hours ago, Duncan said:

hey OP can you remind me what the actual question was, I got sidetracked at V12.

Do you have an turbo oil return leak and an unidentified coolant leak?

The factory oil returns are terrible design; short, rubber and expensive to replace. They are very common to fail and a pain to replace because they are so short. Still, they are available new if you want to replace both last time I checked.

For the coolant leak, any competent mechanic should be able to do a pressure test; that should show up where the leak is. It is almost certainly one of the billion 30 year old rubber lines which are now brittle as hell, you engine will be fine.

Yeah I would try and diagnose this in situ before thinking about pulling the motor. Those hoses have quite a sharp bend and like anything rubber after 25-30 years it all needs replacement. Budget 1000 USD for hoses alone at this point, there are a metric ton of them in this engine and they're all probably in need of replacement if they haven't been touched yet and you want to replace all the rubber with OEM/Nismo Heritage. Once you know the scale of what needs to be done you can debate whether to pull the motor or not.

[sunsetR33]

2 hours ago, Duncan said:

Certainly. It is probably broken under the wire style clamp. At least that one is easier to get at than the front one.

Didn't necessarily look torn or whatever but it's probably rock solid by now. I found replacement hoses online, or I may as well change to AN style on both turbo and block.

Quote

Sounds like it isn't a major leak, I'd start with backing off the the water feed and return banjos into the turbos half a turn then tightening properly. Hardlines can still crack over time, either in the tube (particularly when turbos are changed if the banjo is siezed in the the tube) or at the brazed joins between the lines and the banjo fittings. A coolant system pressure test will reveal all.

Unless I buy the toolset I can only do a pressure test by warming up the engine. I'll definitely take a look at all the hardlines and banjos that I can reach.
 

Quote

BTW you'd be able to get a sump without exchange, it will just cost more as they will have to source another stock one for the next customer. If you want to address the sump a much better option is something like this https://www.hioctanedirect.com/hi-octane-racing-sump-extension-nissan-rb26 that you weld in locally (and add the oil return fittings at the same time)

That was my plan if I were to modify the sump. Buy an extension with baffling, and some fittings and let someone weld the stuff together.

[sunsetR33]

22 minutes ago, joshuaho96 said:

Yeah I would try and diagnose this in situ before thinking about pulling the motor. Those hoses have quite a sharp bend and like anything rubber after 25-30 years it all needs replacement. Budget 1000 USD for hoses alone at this point, there are a metric ton of them in this engine and they're all probably in need of replacement if they haven't been touched yet and you want to replace all the rubber with OEM/Nismo Heritage. Once you know the scale of what needs to be done you can debate whether to pull the motor or not.

Yeah I'll do what I can without taking off any major parts for now. If it becomes clear I won't get far with the engine in the car I'll have to think about the next steps. I am not too stuck on keeping everything 100% OEM, if there is better solutions, like converting most lines to braided with AN adapters, I'd rather do that than buy overpriced new "shit" parts.