R33 GTR lift points for hoist

[sunsetR33]

Hi all.

I am aware there is lots of discussions about jacking points, where to lift the car and what not. But as usual just a lot of "in my opinion" and nothing definitive, and everyone does it in a different way.

I want to hear from some experienced people on which points on the car it's okay/safe/recommended to lift the car using a four point hoist/lift.

I will attach some images of my underbody. Sills are largely okayish, the driver side jacking point is pretty mangled though and it looks like the underfloor is slightly pushed in too, but I might be wrong.

In the German Skyline forum, the consensus is to use the sidemember chassis rails in the front and the rear subframe? bushing in the rear. I know the manual says to never use the sidemember for loading but lots of folk do it and it was definitely done on my car too as they are slightly bent too.

Based on the images, what points do I use to not make the already present damage worse? I'd use wood or rubber blocks to spread the load across a bigger area of course.

Driver side sidemember and jacking point mangled one) https://imgur.com/a/eKjzrJX

Driver side rear jacking point https://imgur.com/a/W3DWF1P

Passenger side sidemember and jacking point https://imgur.com/a/65UvIJe

Passenger side rear jacking point https://imgur.com/a/h3k7j53

We can also see some underbody rust but so far it all looks somewhat treatable and nothing that requires a Yoshida style restoration.

[Duncan]

Your off site links didn't work for me, and in any case it is easier for forum members if you post the pic directly either as an attachment or a link so the information is all in one place.

That aside, the sills are the correct place to lift the car, whether with the factory jack or a hoist. Yes you should use rubber blocks with a slit for the seam on a hoist to avoid bending the pinch weld (where yours is currently bent, just bend it back if possible eg vicegrips), and be aware of the height you need in the blocks to clear any sill extensions to the hoist arms as it lifts

If what you are doing needs access to the sills, the rear subframe bush would also be strong and secure. I'm not sure what you mean by sidemember (maybe same part I mean by sills) but be careful that your front support point is not too far back as the car is very front heavy and could overbalance.

[GTSBoy]

14 minutes ago, Duncan said:

but be careful that your front support point is not too far back as the car is very front heavy and could overbalance.

Note when Duncan says that, he means "when you're not using the correct lifting points on the sills, because you want to work on the sills.

A 2 post hoist is not appropriate for everything anyway, and working on the sills is a good example of that, because the arms go under ths sills anyway. You're better off finding another way to support the car off the ground.

Beyond that everything else D said is correct. Only the dedicated jacking points are the correct place to lift. Anywhere else is incorrect, extra caution and awareness must be used, etc etc.

[sunsetR33]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

Your off site links didn't work for me, and in any case it is easier for forum members if you post the pic directly either as an attachment or a link so the information is all in one place.

That aside, the sills are the correct place to lift the car, whether with the factory jack or a hoist. Yes you should use rubber blocks with a slit for the seam on a hoist to avoid bending the pinch weld (where yours is currently bent, just bend it back if possible eg vicegrips), and be aware of the height you need in the blocks to clear any sill extensions to the hoist arms as it lifts

If what you are doing needs access to the sills, the rear subframe bush would also be strong and secure. I'm not sure what you mean by sidemember (maybe same part I mean by sills) but be careful that your front support point is not too far back as the car is very front heavy and could overbalance.

Fk me, I guess next time I will try to use the onsite attachments feature. I find it hard to work with so far though because I can't move the images to where I want them to be. I will try to make a separate post with just images.

As for lifting. The work I need to do for now involves the exhaust and engine mainly, so the arm covering the jacking points is not a problem. But I don't want to bend in the whole sill or underfloor by lifting the car at the original jack points. I found some rubber blocks, 125 by 125 with a 10mm wide and 10mm deep cutout, which I'm hoping will work for not hitting the jacking rail.
The sidemember, as seen in the service manual, are the rectangular frame rails that come from the front of the car and go alongside the gearbox and downpipe. Those that get crushed inwards if you use them for a floorjack. They are already slightly bent in from being used to hoist by other people.

I think cutting off the jacking points and welding or bolting on a reinforcement plate along the sill might not be a dumb idea. Or is it dumb?

 

 

1 hour ago, GTSBoy said:

Note when Duncan says that, he means "when you're not using the correct lifting points on the sills, because you want to work on the sills.

A 2 post hoist is not appropriate for everything anyway, and working on the sills is a good example of that, because the arms go under ths sills anyway. You're better off finding another way to support the car off the ground.

Beyond that everything else D said is correct. Only the dedicated jacking points are the correct place to lift. Anywhere else is incorrect, extra caution and awareness must be used, etc etc.

A 2 post hoist is what I'm gonna work with, but not for any underbody work, just leaky engine and exhaust work so far. Depends on what else I find that might need immediate attention. For metalwork on the sills I think I'd just bring the car to a panel beater. What's your take on getting rid of the original jacking rails and putting reinforcement plates along the sills?

[sunsetR33]

driver side sidemember and jacking point (looks the worst by far)


driver side rear jack point

passenger side sidemember and jack point


passenger side rear jack point


 
Ignore my mug on the last photo. Turns out I was just too stupid to properly use the forum's attachment feature previously

[Duncan]

yeah looks like they've been lifted there previously but with solid not slitted rubber blocks. I'd just bend them back (combination of vice grips or hammer with some sort of drift, then hit the area with underbody protection paint.

As for the siderails, I'd call those chassis rails and that is exactly what I meant about being careful with the balance point. You can probably lift off them at the point where the 2 pieces overlap, but you need to be careful with the forward balance of the car if you do when the engine is in....sills are a better choice.

I guess you could weld some reinforcement in the sill area near the jacking points but it shouldn't be necessary if you use blocks with a slit. If you do want to reinforce it I'd use square section equal or taller than the seam and then just use flat rubber blocks for lifting

[GTSBoy]

25 minutes ago, sunsetR33 said:

I find it hard to work with so far though because I can't move the images to where I want them to be.

Don't "upload" the pictures. Just copy the picture direct from somewhere (I usually am pasting screenshots or something else that I have on the clipboard as an image, not as a file" and just paste it direct into the post editor. Just like you were pasting it into a Word doc or something.

26 minutes ago, sunsetR33 said:

But I don't want to bend in the whole sill or underfloor by lifting the car at the original jack points. I found some rubber blocks, 125 by 125 with a 10mm wide and 10mm deep cutout, which I'm hoping will work for not hitting the jacking rail.

You can't damage something if you lift it where you are supposed to. If you look carefully at the correct jacking points, you will see that they are reinforced right there. And nowhere else. That is where the "foot" of the factory jack is supposed to sit. That's why you need rubber pads with slots. 10mm might not be deep enough. Note also that the slots are not required if the pinchweld has already been slammed flat. You could just lift it at the correct spot with a flat pad, because the damage is already done. No point in making worse though, if it is recoverable. IF.

28 minutes ago, sunsetR33 said:

The sidemember, as seen in the service manual, are the rectangular frame rails that come from the front of the car and go alongside the gearbox and downpipe.

Yes, that's called a chassis rail.

29 minutes ago, sunsetR33 said:

Those that get crushed inwards if you use them for a floorjack.

You can lift carefully on these, if you spread the load. A decent block of wood is good. But keep in mind what I said before. Any time you start doing this sort of thing, you are off the normal path and into "be bloody careful", because it is obviously not stable.

30 minutes ago, sunsetR33 said:

I think cutting off the jacking points and welding or bolting on a reinforcement plate along the sill might not be a dumb idea. Or is it dumb?

Dumb. The refinforcement is already there.

30 minutes ago, sunsetR33 said:

What's your take on getting rid of the original jacking rails and putting reinforcement plates along the sills?

See above.

[MBS206]

For posting pictures, if you do upload them as a file, they're easy to place where you want.

 

First use the file upload from "Add files"

Then in the text editing area place the cursor where you want the picture, make sure if you were to start typing, that text would appear where you want the picture, then scroll down to the add files area, and beside the picture you just uploaded click "Insert" and it will place it exactly where you were ready to type text.

[GTSBoy]

And WRT the photos....f**k me dead, there are some butchers out there.

This

is a prime example of wwhat the factory jacking point looks like. The notches tell you exactly where to put the jack, and the reinforcement is on the other side of that notched pichweld, ready to carry all the load it needs to. Like this

Same at the front, except they've been smashed.

[GTSBoy]

Those chassis rails can be straightened out too. You need someone who knows how to use the appropriate prying tools to reach up inside through the available holes and press the bottom surface back out from the inside. Mine were a bit damaged, and we got them back to looking factory so it would survive an inspection at the pits without risking a defect (yes, damaged chassis rails are defectable here in Oz).

[sunsetR33]

5 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

Don't "upload" the pictures. Just copy the picture direct from somewhere (I usually am pasting screenshots or something else that I have on the clipboard as an image, not as a file" and just paste it direct into the post editor. Just like you were pasting it into a Word doc or something.

I uploaded them with the "choose files" button. Is the resolution better if I copy paste?

Quote

You can't damage something if you lift it where you are supposed to. If you look carefully at the correct jacking points, you will see that they are reinforced right there. And nowhere else. That is where the "foot" of the factory jack is supposed to sit. That's why you need rubber pads with slots. 10mm might not be deep enough. Note also that the slots are not required if the pinchweld has already been slammed flat. You could just lift it at the correct spot with a flat pad, because the damage is already done. No point in making worse though, if it is recoverable. IF.

I think despite the somewhat damaged jacking points they are still not too far off the deep end. Don't want to fully destroy them. I can't find rubber blocks with deeper than 10mm grooves for the life of me. It's as if it was impossible to make thesee grooves 15-20mm deep.

Quote

Yes, that's called a chassis rail.

You can lift carefully on these, if you spread the load. A decent block of wood is good. But keep in mind what I said before. Any time you start doing this sort of thing, you are off the normal path and into "be bloody careful", because it is obviously not stable.

I'd like to avoid using the chassis rails. (BTW the service manual for some reason actually calls these sidemembers)
As for the reinforcement of the sill. I was thinking more like a steel plate long the length of the sill or at least like 20-30cm long at where the jack point is. Width being the entire sill, so lots of surface area and a very usable stable point to lift and jack the car.

[sunsetR33]

8 minutes ago, MBS206 said:

For posting pictures, if you do upload them as a file, they're easy to place where you want.

 

First use the file upload from "Add files"

Then in the text editing area place the cursor where you want the picture, make sure if you were to start typing, that text would appear where you want the picture, then scroll down to the add files area, and beside the picture you just uploaded click "Insert" and it will place it exactly where you were ready to type text.

thanks, figured it out though

[sunsetR33]

8 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

And WRT the photos....f**k me dead, there are some butchers out there.

This

is a prime example of wwhat the factory jacking point looks like. The notches tell you exactly where to put the jack, and the reinforcement is on the other side of that notched pichweld, ready to carry all the load it needs to. Same at the front, except they've been smashed.

Yeah not too happy about the condition of my jack points but I have seen much much worse on other photos. At least there is only one that is properly damaged, the others are not too bad.

5 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

Those chassis rails can be straightened out too. You need someone who knows how to use the appropriate prying tools to reach up inside through the available holes and press the bottom surface back out from the inside. Mine were a bit damaged, and we got them back to looking factory so it would survive an inspection at the pits without risking a defect (yes, damaged chassis rails are defectable here in Oz).

I was thinking this too and will definitely get on that, either sometime down the road or if I also fail inspection due to them being bent, but I don't think it's a big deal. Will find out once I have to do an inspection though.

[joshuaho96]

Just now, sunsetR33 said:

I uploaded them with the "choose files" button. Is the resolution better if I copy paste?

I think despite the somewhat damaged jacking points they are still not too far off the deep end. Don't want to fully destroy them. I can't find rubber blocks with deeper than 10mm grooves for the life of me. It's as if it was impossible to make thesee grooves 15-20mm deep.

I'd like to avoid using the chassis rails. (BTW the service manual for some reason actually calls these sidemembers)
As for the reinforcement of the sill. I was thinking more like a steel plate long the length of the sill or at least like 20-30cm long at where the jack point is. Width being the entire sill, so lots of surface area and a very usable stable point to lift and jack the car.

The quickjack pinch weld blocks are 12.7mm deep. I use some generic amazon/alibaba special jack stand pads which are 20mm deep which is far more than you need on these cars: https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Sparta-Adapter-Universal-Protector/dp/B07N691QNG

I'm not sure what your lift looks like but presumably these will work too: https://www.amazon.com/HXXF-Adapter-Universal-Slotted-Protector/dp/B07X7MYGYF

[sunsetR33]

18 minutes ago, Duncan said:

yeah looks like they've been lifted there previously but with solid not slitted rubber blocks. I'd just bend them back (combination of vice grips or hammer with some sort of drift, then hit the area with underbody protection paint.

As for the siderails, I'd call those chassis rails and that is exactly what I meant about being careful with the balance point. You can probably lift off them at the point where the 2 pieces overlap, but you need to be careful with the forward balance of the car if you do when the engine is in....sills are a better choice.

I guess you could weld some reinforcement in the sill area near the jacking points but it shouldn't be necessary if you use blocks with a slit. If you do want to reinforce it I'd use square section equal or taller than the seam and then just use flat rubber blocks for lifting

Yup someone was not careful. I also almost made the mistake to jack up the car using the chassis rails, but immediately stopped once I noticed what would happen if I kept going. Only made a bit of a dent (on already dented rails).

For the reinforcement as I replied to GTSboy I mean something like this
An actual steel plate or railing along the sill (picture is just an example)

[GTSBoy]

7 minutes ago, sunsetR33 said:

(BTW the service manual for some reason actually calls these sidemembers)

Japanese English.

 

7 minutes ago, sunsetR33 said:

I was thinking more like a steel plate long the length of the sill or at least like 20-30cm long at where the jack point is. Width being the entire sill, so lots of surface area and a very usable stable point to lift and jack the car

Well, no, because that would be very very dangerous. It is already a bit sketchy supporting the front of the car as far back as the stock front jacking points. As Duncan said, the front of the car is very heavy. You absolutely do not want to encourage anyone to be lifting from any point closer to the centre of the car. It will tip and kill someone.

[sunsetR33]

4 minutes ago, joshuaho96 said:

The quickjack pinch weld blocks are 12.7mm deep. I use some generic amazon/alibaba special jack stand pads which are 20mm deep which is far more than you need on these cars: https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Sparta-Adapter-Universal-Protector/dp/B07N691QNG

I'm not sure what your lift looks like but presumably these will work too: https://www.amazon.com/HXXF-Adapter-Universal-Slotted-Protector/dp/B07X7MYGYF

Could not find the quickjack ones anywhere so far. The first link won't ship to my country and the second one is a fair suggestion but I'd like a square style rubber block with more surface. That narrows it down a lot too.

[GTSBoy]

https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-rubber-jack-pad.html?spm=a2g0o.home.search.0

Pick any of these that look like they will work.

[sunsetR33]

Just now, GTSBoy said:

Japanese English.

Well, no, because that would be very very dangerous. It is already a bit sketchy supporting the front of the car as far back as the stock front jacking points. As Duncan said, the front of the car is very heavy. You absolutely do not want to encourage anyone to be lifting from any point closer to the centre of the car. It will tip and kill someone.

Fair point, but that can be mitigated if necessary. Or just making the reinforcement plating just in a certain smaller area located very far in the front. But it's just an idea.

[GTSBoy]

You can also make your own. It doesn't need to be rubber. It just needs to mate securely enough to whatever the jack/arm point is, and have a slot in the top. If that means welding a few chunks of steel together, or slotting something in a mill, then, that's what it means.