Want 200rwkw out of a stockish R33?

[Sydneykid]

Correct. This was the only mod done between dyno runs.

Also correct, and forms the very reason.  

So heres my point; Dynos are a tuning tool. Anyone chasing a dyno figure is missing the point IMO. As my example has pointed out, you could achieve 150rwkw at one place then have another place "retune" the car and achieve 195 without effectively doing anything. I'm not sure anyone with half a twit is going to argue you can get 42rwkw by adding a high flow cat.

A dyno figure is not going to give you any idea how fast the car is going to be, and because of this, dont mean squat.

Hi riggaP, I agree dynos are a tuning tool, but they are a pretty useless tuning tool if you don't get consistent results. I mean how else are you supposed to know whether or not you have achieved a gain or not with your latest mod or the tuning effort itself? Don't try the 1/4 mile test, that's even more inconsistent. I was at Easterns Creek last week and it was blowing a gale, easy knock 0.25 of the time and 8 kph onto the top speed with that sort of tail wind. Not to mention track surface, temperature, humidity etc etc

So my rule is simple, find a dyno shop that gives you good service, knows what they are doing and charges reasonably, then keep going back. It matters not whether their dyno reads high, low or spot on, as long as it is consistent.

[GTS-t VSPEC]

Common, you know that's not true, I can get perfectly consistent results running a DD not in Shootout Mode.  After all, I can set the parameters exactly the same as Shootout mode, the only difference is that they are locked and displayed.  That does not mean that they are not set correctly.  I believe that the Shootineers Code of Conduct is far more important to consistency than a piece of software.

Sorry, that might sound a bit harsh, but I am getting a bit tired of DD shoving Shootot mode down everybody's neck as if it's the be all and end all of dyno's.

SK, So what dyno do you use?

[Sydneykid]

SK, So what dyno do you use?

We have 3 dynos, an engine dyno, a 4wd hub dyno and a 4wd roller dyno. Not bragging just answering your question.

[GTS-t VSPEC]

Which brand is the roller dyno?

[Sydneykid]

Which brand is the roller dyno?

It's a Dyno Dynamics, and before you ask, no we don't run Shoot Out mode. We are a race team and so we must have consistent results. It is in a climate controlled room to add to the repeatability. There is absolutely no interest in anything but consistency, we would be deluding ourselves otherwise.

[GTRgeoff]

On that same dyno on the same day which was frighteningly melburnian (that's right...COLD) I went close to my original tuned figure at Bresciani's of 220rwkw but so many of us were told that our cars were running really lean, while the Bresciani figures were all very healthy and I had the dyno chart to demonstrate. Not having a go at Selectmaz as I have a lot of respect for Issy and their work there so maybe their lambda probe is a bit off the money.

Anyway, both were DD and the Bresciani tuning was done in non-shootout, but Selectmaz were running different ramps to Bresciani I was told by the guys that work there. Mine had a heap of trouble keeping traction on the rollers until pulled down hard and INASNT was pulling his usual 320ish rwkw.

I don't recall if I intended to make a point, but hopefully have added to the discussion.

[GTS-t VSPEC]

It's a Dyno Dynamics, and before you ask, no we don't run Shoot Out mode.  We are a race team and so we must have consistent results.  It is in a climate controlled room to add to the repeatability.  There is absolutely no interest in anything but consistency, we would be deluding ourselves otherwise.

Haha, thought as much:cheers:

[krawler]

We got 198rwkw on one breed of dyno. 3 days later we got 169rwkw(iirc) on another breed of dyno. Several weeks later, we got 190rwkw on another breed.

Obviously we quote 198rwkw as our power output

[GTS-t VSPEC]

I'm sure we have this debate every week:D

[benm]

I've been on 5 different dyno's (all at "Dyno Days") and got 5 different results. The funny thing is the more recent the dyno the lower and lower results

My first ever result was 203rwkw, now im down to 186rwkw even though i've done things like dump pipe, cat, ex cam gear, spark plugs. I've found a dyno that gives me consistent results everytime so that's the only dyno I use now (and i could sooo break 200rwkw with a stock ECU/Turbo too if I didn't have to sell the damn car grr).

I think the only true way of dyno'ing your car is to rip the engine out and put it on an engine dyno in a controlled environment (much to what SK has mentioned above).

Dyno (shootout) = depends on the dyno/day/operator.

1/4 Mile = track prep, tyres, car setup, driver ability.

Track = tyres, car setup, driver ability.

[predator]

I'm sure we have this debate every week

yup maybe there should actually be a sticky thread "why dynos don't always tell the truth" with some technical explanations from the more knowledgeable out there..

[rev210]

I like shootout mode. I think it's nice to have a dyno competition standard, for those interested in doing that kind of thing.

On the other hand..

The properties of the environment the dyno is located is a very significant factor to power generation also.

Consider a dyno dynamics dyno in shootout mode 1500m above sea level, the air is very hot and poluted. In this situation the timing and fuel maps of this vehicle must be adjusted according to the limits of the enviroment first. So the horsepower of this vehicle in reality must be adjusted lower than in a more favourable environment . There is no altitude correction in the shootout mode is there? nor does the shootout mode detect ambient concentration of oxygen and other gasses or even moisture?

It doesn't really matter what the claims of power are comming from other dyno's if those dynos are not standardised in an environmental sense in addtion to running a standardised peice of software calibration.

Some food for thought is the fact that Perth is one of the least polluted citys in the world ,the elevation of most suburbs is pretty close to sea level and the air is fairly dry throughout the year.

[riggaP]

Hi riggaP, I agree dynos are a tuning tool, but they are a pretty useless tuning tool if you don't get consistent results.  I mean how else are you supposed to know whether or not you have achieved a gain or not with your latest mod or the tuning effort itself?  Don't try the 1/4 mile test, that's even more inconsistent.  I was at Easterns Creek last week and it was blowing a gale, easy knock 0.25 of the time and 8 kph onto the top speed with that sort of tail wind.  Not to mention track surface, temperature, humidity etc etc

So my rule is simple, find a dyno shop that gives you good service, knows what they are doing and charges reasonably, then keep going back.  It matters not whether their dyno reads high, low or spot on, as long as it is consistent.

I agree with this totally and forms part of the point I'm trying to make.

A dyno is a diagnosic tool used to determine how well the car is running, and to make it run better. The figure at the end means little. Where the figure has meaning is when I go to a workshop and put out 150rwkw, then after a few mods and retune I get 190rwkw. This tells me that the car has more power, the money spent wasnt a waste, and it should be a lot quicker. Again, however, this 190rwkw figure is almost certainly going to be different on a different dyno.

For people who just want XXXrwkw etc, find a dyno that reads high. It will cost $30 for a power run and you can say that you have XXXrwkw. Just dont be surprized when a car with a lower power reading is able to keep up you.

[Sydneykid]

I like shootout mode. I think it's nice to have a dyno competition standard, for those interested in doing that kind of thing.

On the other hand..

The properties of the environment the dyno is located is a very significant factor to power generation also.

Consider a dyno dynamics dyno in shootout mode 1500m above sea level, the air is very hot and poluted. In this situation the timing and fuel maps of this vehicle must be adjusted according to the limits of the enviroment first. So the horsepower of this vehicle in reality must be adjusted lower than in a more favourable environment . There is no altitude correction in the shootout mode is there? nor does the shootout mode detect ambient concentration of oxygen and other gasses or even moisture?  

It doesn't really matter what the claims of power are comming from other dyno's if those dynos are not standardised in an environmental sense in addtion to running a standardised peice of software calibration.

Some food for thought is the fact that Perth is one of the least polluted citys in the world ,the elevation of most suburbs is pretty close to sea level and the air is fairly dry throughout the year.

All very logical Rev, Shootout mode does have barometric pressure and relative humidity compensation as well as the more obvious ambient temperature and inlet temperature compensation. So, whilst not as good as our climate controlled engine dyno cell, it's a lot better than nothing.

[rev210]

All very logical Rev, Shootout mode does have barometric pressure and relative humidity compensation as well as the more obvious ambient temperature and inlet temperature compensation.  So, whilst not as good as our climate controlled  engine dyno cell, it's a lot better than nothing.

Thats fine if it does, but you tune the engine based on those things and not the dyno. The dyno is not able to predict the new parrameters of a 3D igntion and fuel map based on the readings it takes from the booth.

[Sydneykid]

Thats fine if it does, but you tune the engine based on those things and not the dyno. The dyno is not able to predict the new parrameters of a 3D igntion and fuel map based on the readings it takes from the booth.

Sorry Rev I am having a dumb attack, I don't understand what you are getting at there. Can you please explain it for me again.