Track Brake and Suspension set up HELP!!!.....

[Brutus]

Just wanted to get some ideas from those WHO HAVE driven there skylines HARD on the track.

I have a series 2 R33 GTS-T with plenty of grunt and plan on getting serious into track days in VIC. I have run my car when I've been instructing at Phillip Island and at Winton but have realised it has a few shortcomings.

Number One. Running out of brakes.

Ran out of brakes at 260 odd clicks at the end of the main straight at the islkand and was not too impressed. Managed to get it down to about 210 and sllipped it through turn one to tell the tale. I have since put in Race Brakes RB pads, Castrol SRF race fluid and slotted rotors, rebuiolt the booster and the master as well. I plan to also put some ducting in as the series Two has two nice big free vents in the front bar.....

Any other suggestions for brakes......

Number two: Suspension set up.

I have Nismo shocks which are passed it, king springs, urethane bushes, camber kit F and R and a subframe lock kit as well and front adj castor.(urethane). I plan on some whiteline adjustable anti rollbars and want to upgrade the shocks to either Koni's or Bilstein...

Any thoughts or experience with the Bilsteins or koni's??

I can also get a hold of some TEIN coilovers as well but have heard they are ultra hard and my car is a daily driver.

Lastly, any suggestions on a road/track alignment that will give reasonable handling withoiut totally chewing tyres. I currently have too much understeer and the back end has SEVERE bumpsteer on the road. Dunno if anyone has experienced this with their car but when I hit a bump, the whole back end moves sideways.....

Also to HICAS or to lock it up....

Any thoughts greatly appreciatted but please, only from those of you who have actually had experience driving these hard on the track and know what set up works....

Lastly, why aren't there more skylines out on the track, there's so many on the road........

Thanks

James

Here's some photo's playing....

[Sydneykid]

Just wanted to get some ideas from those WHO HAVE driven there skylines HARD on the track.

I have a series 2 R33 GTS-T with plenty of grunt and plan on getting serious into track days in VIC. I have run my car when I've been instructing at Phillip Island and at Winton but have realised it has a few shortcomings.

Number One. Running out of brakes.

Ran out of brakes at 260 odd clicks at the end of the main straight at the islkand and was not too impressed. Managed to get it down to about 210 and sllipped it through turn one to tell the tale. I have since put in Race Brakes RB pads, Castrol SRF race fluid and slotted rotors, rebuiolt the booster and the master as well. I plan to also put some ducting in as the series Two has two nice big free vents in the front bar.....

Any other suggestions for brakes......

Number two: Suspension set up.

I have Nismo shocks which are passed it, king springs, urethane bushes, camber kit F and R and a subframe lock kit as well and front adj castor.(urethane). I plan on some whiteline adjustable anti rollbars and want to upgrade the shocks to either Koni's or Bilstein...

Any thoughts or experience with the Bilsteins or koni's??

I can also get a hold of some TEIN coilovers as well but have heard they are ultra hard and my car is a daily driver.

Lastly, any suggestions on a road/track alignment that will give reasonable handling withoiut totally chewing tyres. I currently have too much understeer and the back end has SEVERE bumpsteer on the road. Dunno if anyone has experienced this with their car but when I hit a bump, the whole back end moves sideways.....

Also to HICAS or to lock it up....

Any thoughts greatly appreciatted but please, only from those of you who have actually had experience driving these hard on the track and know what set up works....

Lastly, why aren't there more skylines out on the track, there's so many on the road........

Thanks

James

Here's some photo's playing....

Hi James, there are plenty of Skylines on the track you just have to be there at the right time.

HICAS is not your friend, get rid of it. Do a search on other stuff I have written on HICAS and why it's gotta go.

We run Whiteline adjustable stabiliser bars, 27 mm on the front on a GTST and 24 mm on the rear in the dry and 22 mm in the wet. Ordere them with one extra hole per side, std is 2 you need 3.

The standard diff is not a good track device, we find a 1.5 way clutch pack mechanical to be best. ATS make a good one, as does Nismo.

Alignment settings are really dependant on rubber and spring rate. We use 3.5 degrees negative camber on the front, with 8 degrees positive caster. Between 1.5 and 2 degrees negative camber on the rear. I usually run the alignment on the race cars straight ahead front and rear. If you find the rear a bit fidgetty under brakes, a bit of toe in helps with stability.

Decent R compound tyres are really a must, R33 GSTS's are heavy beasts so need plenty of grip. Our control tyre is a Yokohama A032R, we use 245/45/17. The Dunlop and Bridestone equivalents are arguably slightly superior in the dry.

You will find as the corner speeds increase, the brakes won't be such an issue. We use Hawke carbon pads in the blue compound with DBA slotted rotors and AP 600 brake fluid. Remove the backing plates from the rotors, the fronts bolt on but you will need to cut the rears off. An air saw is a big help.

For track work the Bilsteins are very effective and give good value for money. I have yet to find a Japanese damper that gives as good a result. Ohlins are also very good if you want some adjustment to play with. The Konis don't have quite the piston area for track work, great for the road though.

Keep the rear spring rate low, not much over 200 lbs and control the roll with the stabiliser bar and the squat with the subframe bushes.

Hope that helps

[Duncan]

:werd: particularly re the brakes, I did phillip island for the first time, and even if you were heading into turn 1 at 260, you don't need to take more than 60 off your speed so unless there is something wrong with your brakes the stockers should be fine with good pads and fluid.

My stock brakes survived 4 years of track days without problems except when I used EBC greenstuff.

I don't think you mentioned anti-roll bars? you should look at some uprated adjustable ones to keep the car flatter. We also use the bilstein shocks.

And, you should have come out on the weekend, there was 7 of us at the 2 super sprints check out Vic events, I think the next one is Sanddown.

[Snowman]

Brutus.

I have just completed my 4th day at Phillip Island and have driven my car pretty much as hard as I can (as a lap time of 1.49 shows! LOL)

I can't give you a complete answer for a rwd car BUT there is another GTR that has been coming with me that is set up almost identically except for brakes and suspension that is about 3s slower around the Island. (and its not in the driver!)

My brake set-up is:

Fronts - DBA 5000's - Freodo 3000 pads

Rears - DBA 4000's - Comp 2 pads

Fluid - Castrol SRF.

I had previously been running standard rotors with endless pads - and the difference when I put in the Ferodo's was MASSIVE. Even after the 8 lap practise sessions on the Saturday of a PIARC weekend I wasn't experiencing any fade. The bad thing about the Ferodo's for normal driving is that they are DAMN noisey. But on the track I think they are awesome.

As for suspension I am running Tein HA's. I peronally don't find them bad on the street at all (I keep them on my track setting as well always) but then I also dont drive my car every day. But compared to Scotsman who is running stock suspension I can carry about 15km/hr more through that last sweeper coming onto the main straight. There was a guy with a worked WRX last weekend that dropped 2.5s of his previous best time with some whiteline suspension.

Also - I am only just starting to become a half decent driver and last weekend was the first time I noticed the HICAS doing things that were upsetting me. skylinegeoff from the forums here makes a locking bar - I have one on order now.

I am also going to look at running a bit of camber. Have been running nothing but really noticed the wear on the outer edges on my tyres after last weekend. I am going to go down and speak to Ben at Racepace about any set-up suggestions.

As previously mentioned - there is a large group of us running at the Maserati day at Sandown on October 24th. Think 15 from last count. Check the Vic events section - be good to have another Skyline on board.

[Roy]

Come on James, we are in dire need of a few tough GTSts on the track, these GTR boys are starting to think they are untouchable.

Brakes sound much liek my setup, and i have never had probs, though i have never been to Sandown...im following Snowmans lead with the Ferodos for the nextr track day, as my RB74s are dead anyway

For me i think my car is a great compromise between daily driver and weekend thrasher. Whiteline spring and Bilstein shocks work well, some think my car is too rolly and doesnt "handle as good" as some cars with stiffer spring rate / coil overs, but im pretty sure my car has pretty good levels of grip.

As others have touched on, susp settings are very dependant on your ride height, tyre selection, and other susp mods. A Bit of adjustability with bushes is a great thing, speak to a susp place that aint full of hot air and get some feedback from them.

[Brutus]

Thank you all SO much as the responses were exactly the sort of info I was after.

I put in a set of RB74's from race brakes yesterday for the interim and they certainly seem MUCH better than what I had. I went for a really hard run DOWN the kinglake road today and got no fade. I previously ran the HAWK blues in my MX5 and loved them but they are about $400 for the GTS-T.

I will get a HICAS kit on your suggestions and also get the swaybars. Are the extra holes closer in (stiffer) or further out (softer)????

Lastly, I wish to run soon but need to (want to) get an oil coller in first so she doesn't go bang after 2 laps and also getting married December so spendings on hold. Hence taking my fiance's MX to Winton this weekend for a thrash with the WRX Club.

Andrew, I presume your running in a GTR???? My aim for the Skyline is to get into the 40's if not mid 40's but I'll have to wait and see. I do kow when I was instructing with the BM club I took it for a run and only had piddly 225/16 track tyres and no brakes and I was hosing race prepped M3's driven by the experienced BMW guys. Felt like I was doing low '50's at the time.

Best previously was 2.04 in a bog standard MX5 on road tyres and 2.00.18 in an mx on track tyres with koni's.......

Could never better that 2 minute barrier in the MX no matter how insane I drove it so that's why decided it was time for a quicker car!!!!!

If any of you guys are at Winton, look out for me, I'll be there with a dozen other MX5's.....

As for the GTS-T's, all that i have seen at track days have been running around 5-10 secs a lap slower than I did in a stocky MX5, that's what I was confused about......

James

[Roy]

Andrew, I presume your running in a GTR???? My aim for the Skyline is to get into the 40's if not mid 40's but I'll have to wait and see. I do kow when I was instructing with the BM club I took it for a run and only had piddly 225/16 track tyres and no brakes and I was hosing race prepped M3's driven by the experienced BMW guys. Felt like I was doing low '50's at the time.  

LOL...now you have done it. Im getting caned bacause i think i can easily get under 1:30s around Sandown, and im aiming with enough practice to get close to 1:25, a point Andrew is sure to remind me of if i fall short

If your car is sorted then i dont see any reason why you cant get into the high 1:40s arounf PI, hell i did maybe 10 laps with car probs including ignition woes meaning i was running on 5 cylinders and wasnt even really linking corners, just trying to suss braking points and turn in/exits and i still did a 1:58

Now thats far from 1:49, but im confident if my car was running on 6 cylinders and boosting properly i would have have been around 1:53s. Then with some practice / experience of the track try and dip into the 1:49s, but ppl will tell you it aint possible becuase its a GTST

Oh well the fun is getting out there and trying. What times are the M3s doing?

[Laurence]

Cameron McConville did a 1'52" at the island in a stock E46

[benm]

RaceBrakes have a brake pad compound that is better than the RB74, I forgot the model name but give them a call. It was something like $350/set compared to ~$150/set of the RB74's.

[Duncan]

Cameron McConville did a 1'52" at the island in a stock E46

on slicks.

but still, great effort

And, there is absolutely no reason a GTST can't keep up with a GTR so forget that idea :slap: 4wd is of least importance at a track like phillip island where there are few low speed corners to have a traction problem

Give me a lighter car with about the same power and there'll be a faster lap time.

[Roy]

Give me a lighter car with about the same power and there'll be a faster lap time.

LOL, if you can get my car out of the mechanics we can tag team it at the next trackday

[Snowman]

Ah - you RWD boys are so entertaining.

[SLIM V 2.1.0]

:bananaman

[Laurence]

I am trying to book you a room...

[Brutus]

I also remember Cam McConville doing a high 1.43 around Winton long track in an STI scooby a few years back. I had never driven one before and instructing, i did a 1.41 in one on my second lap with a 100kg passenger and a full tank of gas in a totally standard STI.

Also, Larry Perkins only did a 2.11 around the island in a stock , road tyred MX5 and I did a 2.04, so I guess times aren't that comparable day in day out, although I often wonder what exactly LP was doing that day????

My best time at Sandown in a stocky MX5 with 032R's was a 1.33.9. The only timed runs I have at the island in the GTS-T was a 1:58 but that was totally stock on road tyres and I was taking it pretty easy, first day out and it felt like it was losing about 100kw in heat soak after half a lap with the stock cooler..

Can't wait for Winton saturday, haven't played on the track for two weeks.....

And that's two weeks WAY too long....

Oh...Any reply on which way the holes are on the anti rollbar. ie drill extra holes in for stiffer or extra holes further out for softer????

James

[Brutus]

Oh yeah, you mantioned the subframe bushes, which way is best to set them up as you can have it 3 different combinations. I think mine currently has all four pineapple rings on the road side of the subframe???????

[kevwrx]

Just wanted to get some ideas from those WHO HAVE driven there skylines HARD on the track.

I have a series 2 R33 GTS-T with plenty of grunt and plan on getting serious into track days in VIC. I have run my car when I've been instructing at Phillip Island and at Winton but have realised it has a few shortcomings.

Number One. Running out of brakes.

Ran out of brakes at 260 odd clicks at the end of the main straight at the islkand and was not too impressed. Managed to get it down to about 210 and sllipped it through turn one to tell the tale. ....

210 through turn 1 in a road car ???????

Thats only about 15 kmh slower than a v8 supercar !!

[Duncan]

meh, the honduh could go in at 180 on crappy road tyres, I'm sure 210 is possible on r tyres, and I suspect a supercar is going over 230 (but I'm happy to be corrected)

that turn has good camber and is much more open than it looks

[Vitz]

Guys,

I thought this might be an interest to you all.

http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/competition/...sults190904.htm

Cheers,

VITZ

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