Which Motor Upgrade/Transplant in an R32??

[silva33]

I just wanted some opinions on a Motor upgrade for an R32 GTST, here are the options at the moment:

its a mates car that has done about 100,00km, 5spd, which is totally standard.

The goal is for about 250rwkw and the budget is about $7,000 - $10,000

The Standard mods will be done which include:

Full exhaust

Front mount

Computer, maybe PFC?

Boost controller

Now here is where the confusion starts..... where to from now on??

Options:

1. Leave in the RB20 DET, bigger Turbo, injectors, AFM, etc, and see how long it lasts then rebuild with forgies etc

2. RB26 transplant but there wouldnt me much money left in the budget for mods

3. The much talked about RB30/25 motor..... fully rebuilt

What i would like to know is what do u all think of the 3 different options and which turbos would u use with the RB20 and RB30/25??? or does anyone have any better or cheaper options / opinions.....??

Thanks

[tang0]

just a thought

if your mate has about 10k to spend, why not sell the gts-t, and put the money plus the 10k towards an r32 gtr ???

it might be a standard gtr, but thats gonna have a lot more potential that the gts-t, plus you dont end up with traction problems when you hit 200kw

[Roy]

If his car is copmpletely std then most of the budget will be eaten before he even starts chasing 250rwkws. Exhaust, filter, intercooler, clutch and computer mods will see him spending about 4k. (easily)

About the only way to get 250rwkws with minimal cheap mods is if you are starting with a GTR. :Oops: Then the 5k will pay for the above and you will be at your tagert power.

My thinking, grab a 2535, run 1 bar and for about 6k you will be laughing and then needing susp and brake mods.

And with 200rwkws, if your having traction problems then something is wrong, i have no truobles at all with traction and 208rwkws.

[blind_elk]

Forget doing anything to the RB20. CUBIC INCHES COUNT.

RB26 is too expensive as an engine.

I did a RB25DET into my R32 - in RWD form, they are relatively inexpensive, and have nearly as much grunt as a 26. You can keep the RB20's loom, then hook up an aftermarket Plug'n'Play style ECU.

[silva33]

sorry to be of tipoc in my own thread but,

Roy,

Is that your Silver R32 at ICE Performance?? i saw it there a few times when i was getting work done on my car... and what is lag like on the RB20 when u start going for bigger turbos?

Thanks for the response guys....

[Roy]

Lag? What lag, it drives like the std turbo

I dont think its too bad, but others dont like it. If you want, go for a drive and make up your own mind.

[Bl4cK32]

haha...seems u need to see the rb31det Troy

[tang0]

so you can pull away, then WOT it, and you dont get ANY traction loss ?

booting it in the exit of a nice sweeping corner, and no traction loss ???

guess it depends on tyres as well....

If his car is copmpletely std then most of the budget will be eaten before he even starts chasing 250rwkws. Exhaust, filter, intercooler, clutch and computer mods will see him spending about 4k. (easily)

About the only way to get 250rwkws with minimal cheap mods is if you are starting with a GTR.  :Oops: Then the 5k will pay for the above and you will be at your tagert power.

My thinking, grab a 2535, run 1 bar and for about 6k you will be laughing and then needing susp and brake mods.

And with 200rwkws, if your having traction problems then something is wrong, i have no truobles at all with traction and 208rwkws.

[silva33]

does anyone know where 2 buy an R33 GTST half cut from inc gearbox and how much they are worth??

[tang0]

www.justjap.com

have been nothing but helpful when i have bought stuff from them ..

also got my car from them ...

generally fair people, and they RELLY know what they are talking about

does anyone know where 2 buy an R33 GTST half cut from inc gearbox and how much they are worth??

[Roy]

so you can pull away, then WOT it, and you dont get ANY traction loss ?

booting it in the exit of a nice sweeping corner, and no traction loss ???

guess it depends on tyres as well....

Umm, im not sure how to answer that.

The quick answer is YES, it does break traction.

If i grab 2nd gear at 2,000rpm then floor it, as it comes onto boost it just hooks up and take off...no wheelspin.

If im gassing it around corners then obviously it will, but so will a GTR, if it doesnt oversteer then odds are it will understeer if you jump on the loud pedal too early.

If I shift gears like a nutter it spins a bit, but if I change gears swiftly then again it just hooks up. If I want to be a dill and light up tyres it can, hell so could my old Sigma, but if you drive with a bit of grey matter then traction is NO problem at those sorts of power, provided you have decent susp and ok tyres.

My concern with traction is when it stops you from going quicker, but at 200rwks any loss of traction does not equate to a slower car

[rsx84]

prices for r33 rb25det 1/2 cuts seem to be around the $4000 mark, if you or your mate know an auto sparkie then that will save you money on the trickie bits of the install, fmic and 3" full system, "Zoom" mag #77 has a rb25det tuners guide which if you've seen any of there other guides they work in rwkw stages...

[predator]

BATML dump pipe: $250.. Toshi ECU remap: $200 (or $300 2nd hand SAFC).. Hybrid copy Intercooler: $400.. "wados" piping setup: $300..Walbro or bosch 910 fuel pump: $200.. Whiteline springs: $300, 2nd hand EBC: $300, some dyno time: $300, rb25 turbo: $400, rb74 pads front: $200, RE55 semi-slicks rear: $800.. 2nd hand catback: $500.. 2nd hand front strut bar: $150.. fitting: free. Well it won't get you 250rwkw but hey...

thrashing an rb20det till she blows = priceless.

[rsx84]

predator: with all that if you went for a hi-flowed BB vg30 turdo for say $100 extra you'd be over the 210rwkw mark on the rb20det and have the surrport systems to upgrade the turbo later to get more power.

[predator]

...or for maybe $500 more a highflow rb25 turbo and get much closer to 250rwkw but then you'd need other upgrades I guess.

silva33: really it depends what he / you / imaginary friend wants out of the car.. Is the car going to be daily driven? does he want insurance? Is fuel economy a concern? does he want to go to track, drift or drag days? would the car sit there for 6 months if the engine blew up? does he want to be a dyno queen or drive the power? does he want to handle nicely and stop? if he swapped the engine would he have any money left to upgrade or fix that if that went wrong? does he want it to look pretty? can he drive? what colour are his eyes? etc, etc!

[silva33]

Basically a fun road car... plenty of power, fuel economy, insurance etc isnt a problem... as long as it is reliable with plenty of torque then the engine mod will be seriously considered.. he has had the car for 5 years so yes he knows how to drive, and the way the car handles will largely depend on the motor itself, if traction is a problem then money will be spent with that in mind rather than making it a monster around the track...

it has to be a monster street car with the very occational track day.... Rwkw figures arent important as i know in the real word 2 dofferent cars with the same rwkw figure could be totally diferent, i was using the 'XXXrwkw' as a guide to inform people as to the final goal...

[Sydneykid]

Basically a fun road car... plenty of power, fuel economy, insurance etc isnt a problem... as long as it is reliable with plenty of torque then the engine mod will be seriously considered.. he has had the car for 5 years so yes he knows how to drive, and the way the car handles will largely depend on the motor itself, if traction is a problem then money will be spent with that in mind rather than making it a monster around the track...  

it has to be a monster street car with the very occational track day....  Rwkw figures arent important as i know in the real word 2 dofferent cars with the same rwkw figure could be totally diferent, i was using the 'XXXrwkw' as a guide to inform people as to the final goal...

Faced with the same question 2 years ago, I went for the RB31DET (RB26 top end). By the time I added up all the costs of building a strong 265rwkw RB20DET, a 450 rwkw RB31DET worked out cheaper.

As with all engines, there are certain steps where you have to upgrade stuff to support the move to the next power level. A 265rwkw RB20DET needed, pistons, rods, cams, head work, turbo, inlet manifold, exhaust manifold etc. Basically all the same stuff that an RB30 needed, but it was 50% larger in capacity.

Let's face it, a 265 rwkw turbo is not much cheaper than a 450 rwkw turbo, 272 cams are no more expensive than 256 cams, 80 mm pistons are the same price as 87.5 mm pistons, RB30 forged rods are the same price as RB20 rods etc etc. The real sealer for me was the more readily available used RB26 aftermarket parts compared to RB20 parts and the realative cheapness of RB30 bottom end parts.

Obviously there are quite a few people out there who arrived at the same conclusion, the size of the RB30 thread is evidence of that.

[Bl4cK32]

I guess people will always have the same mentality though Gary. You know the same as i what the power feels like. Id prefer the off boost torque of the rb31 anyday compared to the nothing that the rb20 had below boost.

I agree the rb25 is a good motor, but i still dont like the peaky nature of its power band with bigger turbos...

I may be a little biased coming from a 250 2 stroke background, but a narrow power band isnt the best feeling when u want to give it a squirt sometimes....

Dumping a larger turbo on the rb20 doent make it better in my mind...only makes the power hit harder in the top...rb30..well..more power everywhere, and it revs like a snotter...

If there were no such thing as turbos, would people be buyin the 2Lt na, the 2.5Lt na...or the 3.1Lt na inline 6?

food for though...

*diclaimer*...I dont care about what others think. Im not here to start a cc war, only saying in my mind (and Garys i think) the rb30 is the best $ for perfomance mod u can do to the skyline.

[Sydneykid]

*diclaimer*...I dont care about what others think. Im not here to start a cc war, only saying in my mind (and Garys i think) the rb30 is the best $ for perfomance mod u can do to the skyline.

I agree but there are steps, if you want ~225 rwkw then the RB20 will be heaps cheaper and do the job perfectly, maybe even ~250 rwkw. But once over that STEP and it's a different story, the value for money equation goes out the window. I have almost a complete set of 2.4 litre internals and I have an RB20DET to stick them into. But I built another RB31DET instead.

[Bl4cK32]

Yup totally agree there.

I was a noob when i bought my skyline. New to turbos as well. I though..Ahh turbo car lots of potential...set a power limit way above what was capable out ot the r32 rb20's range. (275ish rwkw) so for me it was go the rb25...then Joel told me about the rb30.

But yes if the power limit is set at a capable limit below 250rwkw..go the rb20/25