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3rd gear is overrated

ferni

By ferni,
in Victoria

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ferni Grand Master

ferni

Posted
Posted

Blew my gearbox at Heathcote drags yesterday....

was about 5th run I think... was running 12.5's @111mph... but was still warming up, still had a bit more left in it... when changing from 2nd to 3rd BANG!

I'm like 'fck fck fck fck fck, what the FCK was that' roll off the drag strip with loud clunking sounds coming from under the car, get out look, all looks fine under the car... the sounds are still being made in neutral, clutch in, noise goes away, clutch out noise comes back...

managed to drive it back to the pit area making a clunk clunk clunk clunk sound, everyone looking at me, embarrassing :D heh

let it cool down, call a few people to see if they knew exactly what it was (My guess was I'd killed my 3rd gear since I knew it was a weak point on R33 GTRs)

Called Snowman since I knew he'd had problems with his synchros, he said no noise came from his when he was driving it, he just couldn't shift into that gear at high RPM.. made sense...

Called Emre since he had blown his gearbox a couple of times... he confirmed that his made clunking sounds when he did his, gave me some advice etc...

Called JAGR33 to suss out getting a tow truck...

I figured the gearbox is stuffed already, so if I make it home that's a few hundred dollars I can save myself and put towards a new gear box...

So I gave my car a drive to see how it drove at 100km/h, and there was defiantly no 3rd gear... put it in gear and was like it was in neutral heh,

Managed to drive it all the way home, funny thing is the more I drove it the quieter/better it got... but I was shifting gears as little as I possible could...

Been quoted for a 2nd hand gearbox $1500 plus $200 to install...

Anyone have any other options I could take? I think rebuilding it with a stronger gearset would cost me about 5k, Don't think I can afford/justify that...

PS. thanks to Andrew, Emre, and Jack, sorry to bother you guys on a Sunday, appreciate the advice

My WTB Gearbox thread...

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...ead.php?t=52003

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https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/52049-3rd-gear-is-overrated/
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Snowman Grand Master

Snowman

Posted
Posted

Andrew - I feel your pain. Glad you got home ok.

Unfortunately the "cheap" options are the ones that will keep coming back to haunt you. Replacing the standard box will more than likely just be a temp measure until you break it again. LOL. Thats why I am now not fixing mine until I can fix it in a way that I shouldn't be able to break it again.

Unfortunately thats not cheap. (BTW - Leewah - if you read this - WTF is happening mate?)

Interloper Veteran

Interloper

Posted
Posted

Have you thought about just rebuilding the standard one instead of getting a 2nd hand one?

At least you will know that after a rebuild its perfect inside instead of running the risk of buying another already stuffed one. Thats what i did and it came to the same amount as buying a 2nd hand one, and now at least it drives like new...

Apparently a rebuild for a GTS4 is the same as for a GTR, i can tell you mine cost $1800 and thats with a brandnew reverse gear set. So i imagine yours should be about the same price.

meshmesh Mentor

meshmesh

Posted
Posted

ferni, dont think series 3 box are any better.. trust me :P ... give supahiro27 (adam) a PM, I know he had about 10 lying around. was asking around the $1K, just dunno about delivery costs from brisbane.. "just remember" the chances of another box blowing are high regardless.. think about it carefully, if I intended to keep the car, a OS Gearset would cost around ~$4K I think?? blow another box after this next used one, and you'd cover the cost of the OS kit :D

Amaru Veteran

Amaru

Posted
Posted

Ouch :D When 3rd gear decides to let go it certainly does it with a very big bang, youre just lucky you could drive it home, my whole box seized up :P

I went another stock box, am making more power than previously, but have listened to a few peoples advice, which is not to 'ham-fist' shift into 3rd gear (e.g not to slam it between 2nd and 3rd, just gently change it and dont apply 100% throttle instantly). This defeats the purpose of drags but its also cheap insurance. I was told not to bother with the OSG cross-set as the 3rd gear in that will also blow if you do constant hard 2nd -> 3rd changes. If youre going to keep the car a long time and think you will keep blowing boxes, maybe look into the PPG dogset, maybe if we get enough people blowing boxes we can do a group purchase :)

benjiman74 Collaborator

benjiman74

Posted
Posted

Andrew, I also feel your pain. I've got Series 3 internals after mine munched 3rd but i believe the gearset is the same strength, the series 3 got bigger synchros and hubs. If you intend to increase your power output and visit the drags you may want to bite the bullet now and go the OS gear set, as meshmesh said a couple of second hand boxes later and you've outlayed the same anyway. The OS set is fitted to bens car after he lunched 3 Trust dog boxes and he hasn't had a drama at power levels around 500rwkw. The added bonus is that they are still a heli cut gearset so street use is not compromised. Good luck.

Leewah Veteran

Leewah

Posted
Posted
(BTW - Leewah - if you read this - WTF is happening mate?)

Snowgirl, WTF are you talking about? What is happening with what? I think I've been in the Tardis for too long.

I was told not to bother with the OSG cross-set as the 3rd gear in that will also blow if you do constant hard 2nd -> 3rd changes. If youre going to keep the car a long time and think you will keep blowing boxes, maybe look into the PPG dogset

Not sure where you got the info bout the OS Cross Mission gearset not being tough.

I've currently got one in my car which most people know is pushing the 1000hp mark with no problems, Emre is using the same set in his car and the RacePace GTR is also running one and that car does 1:16 around Sandown. Can't fault it yet. Also, Garage Saurus was using one in their 9 sec 1000hp GTR awhile back.

The only person who I can think of who has broken them is Theo Woolcott who just ran a PB 9.7xx at Jamboree.

It's all a case of how you change gears, not how tough the gearbox is. Unless you're running more than 600rwkw, I would think the OS set would be fine.

The PPG box is supposed to be awesome from what I've heard and a better alternative to the Trust setup. Hollinger will set you back around the 18k mark.

I may have a spare stock 33 GTR box for sale soon though if you're interested.

Emre Proficient

Emre

Posted
Posted
Called Emre since he had blown his gearbox a couple of times... he confirmed that his made clunking sounds when he did his, gave me some advice etc...

LOL... I am making a reputation for the wrong reasons. Clutches are my specialty. :D

For the record, I've blown a third gear once, in a 32 GTR box fitted to my car. My original gearbox developed an extreme whine due to a shagged bearing, but drives perfect. Currently, I have an OS Giken gearset that I purchased second hand.

The noise goes away when you press the clutch in, because you disengage the input shaft and stop its rotation. The drive all the way home would've certainly shagged your box completely. The reason it's gotten quiet is, you would've made a lot smaller particles out of your chunks of gear tooth during the 150km trip.

Your options are tied in with your future plans.

A second hand box for $1500 sounds a little pricey (unless it is certain to be out of low km car) and you should be able to score one for around $1k mark. A cheap and immediate fix to your current problem. Before doing that, you can drain the oil from the gearbox and do an oil flush with a cheap oil a couple of times. This may get you around for a while.

An OS Giken gearset is a very good option but costs considerably more. Make sure you get the billet sandwich plate and an upgraded input shaft is an option as well. The bigger input shaft will need a new clutch to suit. They will need to be installed in your housing as well; suddenly, it's not a $4k modification is it...?

All the best.

Amaru Veteran

Amaru

Posted
Posted

Leewah, I have no doubts in my mind that the OSG stuff is stronger than factory, but have been warned by multiple people if you blow a stock box from 'ham-fisted' gearshifts, you will blow the OSG one using the same tecnhiques (granted it will hold up a bit longer though). As you said though, its all a case of how you change gears :D

Yep PPG is Pfitzner, and while I havent driven a car with a PPG box, I have sat in and played with a WRX with one and been for a ride in the passanger seat. It feels like an awesome box, very small shifts and very tight. The guy driving it had no problems what so ever, and he had only bought the car around 5 days before hand. They're meant to be a very friendly box, the only unfriendly part about it is the price. The only other complaint I have heard about them is the whining can get annoying at times :P

ferni Grand Master

ferni

Posted
  • Author
Posted

So series3 boxes aren't any better? ... damn

New box from nissan is 3300 delivered, i would of assumed it was a series3 box, so was considering that...

but now if found it isn't much better....

I did do a search on the forum slast night and pm'd a few guys selling gearboxes... still waiting for replies...

Unfortunatly i dont have time on my side since it is my daily driver, i'm stranded without it...

Anyone have a rough guess at what a box with a strenthend gearset would set me back?

1500 = second hand

3300 = new (series 3?)

....

Emre- are you sure that wining noise isn't the thrust bearing, my gearbox made the same noise, sounded like a fan or something when the clutch was engaged... push clutch in, noise goes away... most noticable in neutral since there wasn't much engine noise..

When i replaced my clutch i changed the thrust bearing and the noise went away.. even my mechanic thought it was the gearbox until we did the clutch/thrsut bearing change...

Not really planning to visit the drags, more interested in Track, was just a once off thing to see what it was all about, much prefer the track, but i would like to go back to the drags once more to get a proper day in there

Emre Proficient

Emre

Posted
Posted
Emre- are you sure that wining noise isn't the thrust bearing...

Definitely not the thrust bearing.

If your GTR is your only transport, do what i suggested above.

Dump the oil out of the box and give it a couple of flushes with a cheap oil, than fill her back up and drive it without the 3rd gear.

OS Giken Australian Distributors

ferni Grand Master

ferni

Posted
  • Author
Posted

$4,275 + a box built with them in... more than i can afford...

Spoke to Ben about it earlier tonight.. he said there are guys who have been lucky and drive around with 400rwkw standard box, who drag/circuit race still on thier original box...

At the moment i'm leaning towards going for a 2nd hand box since Ben said he's had 3-4 from Dean@UPI which have all been fine, which is where i got my $1500 price from, and he is suppose to have a half cut that has 58,000kms on it which he can give me the box from...

Since series3 boxes aren't anything special like i thought they were, I'm thinking i go for this, and it will be more up to me driving a little softer on the box.

  • 2 weeks later...

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