engineering the 240K with RB30DET

[YO880]

Hi Guys,

as some of you may know, Christian and Myself are building up a Datsun 240K (remember the 2000GT-R?), for an on road charity rally next year, then it will be a bit of a showcar and hopefully track car (if we work out the inherent understeer). The car needs to be street registered.

The car is a 1974 Datsun 240K GL, with a 2.4L carby engine

our plans for it include

RB30E with twincam head (RB25DE) and (probably an initially small RB20DET Turbo)

RB20DET RB25DET or MX7 gearbox

300ZX front brakes, R31 Skyline rear brakes

ECU of some description...

now my questions are to do with getting the engine engineered (all by the books!) and registered with the RTA.

I have done a lot of looking around in the past few days, and i can only assume, all those with twin cam mods (VL's and some of us) etc.. are keeping shush about having their cars engineered. I would prefer to know as much background as i can before enlisting the advice of an engineer, as from what i have heard, some can be rather lazy and prefer to just say things can't be done (as it causes them more paperwork).

1) ECU's.. well, i managed to get an R33 RB25DE head, not an R32 head which means we should simply have to use an r33 RB25DE loom and ecu to get it to work properly (assuming the turbo runs off a seperate boost controller etc..)..

This means we won't be able to tune the car to bed in/ run properly, so the only solution (rather than dropping the idea for a simple RB20DET swap, andything more is starting to get $$$$$) i can see is to fit an aftermarket ECU (i can hear the tiny pitterpatter of engineers feet running away as i speak!).

I don't mind having the car tuned and set up to pass emmisions tests (apparently they are free from EPARTA in Penrith and Botany?) if that is what we have to do, as long as it isn't going to cost us megabucks, but i know the RTA and engineers can be very negative towards aftermarket ECU's (i assume it is more paperwork).. I have heard that if they are tamperproof (ie. the owner can not self modify the ecu, it may be okay, perhaps a password etc.), can anyone confirm? and does any one know what ecu's will allow for this (Motech? Autronic?)?

the thought of running a hidden ecu has crossed my mind, but i am pretty keen on having this thing absolutely by the books!

2) Emmisions gear.. with an RB30 block, and an RB25DE head, what emmissions gear do we need to fit? from what i can make out, it is pretty much only the charcoal cannister (and exhaust of course)

hopefully there is someone out there that can help us with a little bit of advise, i don't want to give up the RB30DET dream unless i really am forced to.

Kent

[carlo]

I am not familiar with the engineers laws but can say that not all ECU's are legal. A car must run in a closed loop.. but most aftermarket ecus run in open loop (did I get that right) so they wont pass emissions.

That said my mate put a ecu and new engine into a mighty boy and had no issues.

The RTA website has a shit load of intomation on it. I would start there..

Dont give up the dream dude..

[T0nyGTSt]

PowerFC is closed loop and will pass emissions.

T.

[carlo]

Yeah but I dont know if a PowerFC will drive the engine they are building. I know that the other ecus (haltec etc etc) are open

[YO880]

Thanks carlo, something else to add to the ecu shopping list.. so far i have down

6 ignition outputs (don't want to run wasted spark)

6 injector drivers

closed loop

password protected

(at this stage it looks like the only one to match is EMS 8860, after the next software version to cover the 6 ign drivers)

from what i can work out, the powerfc can't be password protected, and can be therefore changed by the owner (through the powerfc)

hence why they wouldn't be accepted.. mind you i have also heard that some won't accept aftermarket ecu's even if they are password protected (and the owner has no clue what it is).. not sure if this is because they are lazy

Kent

[carlo]

EMS... EAK!

talk to b-man about those.

[YO880]

i will send him a pm, thanks

[yogi000]

powerfc can be password protected, from my understanding its done with the powerexcel software...dunno if the datalogit can do it, also i think theres someone else on these forums who has a rb30det and using the ap engineering r32 gtst power fc running that.

[YO880]

yea there are a few, but from all the bits i have already collected (wiring and sensors etc) it will just be easier to cut into an aftermarket ECU (i have to redo the wiring in the datsun anyway) than to convert everything to rb20det bits and pieces

[yogi000]

this might be stupid, but u cant get the rb20det loom and redo the datsun like than rather than bits and peices??? i probably just wasting your time...heheh

[YO880]

no your not wasting my time at all!,

I looked into doing that, but seeing as we already have an rb25de engine and loom with the majority of sensors we will need, it seemed a lot simpler than having to work out what sensors needed to be found to get the rb20det loom up and running (besides the power fc for rb20det costs just as much as an aftermarket system anyways). i even went down the path of looking at buying an rb20det halfcut so we would have everything then we could sell parts off that we didn't use, but it just turned out to be too expensive.. and there are LOTS of other things to spend money on! (and the temptation to just throw the rb20det would be too great!)

it would be nice to get the rb20det powerfc working, i think it would just complicate things alot more for us (not something we really need with the little experience we have and the huge job ahead )

the other option may be to try and hook up an rb25det powerfc, though i have no idea what i would need to do to get the r33 rb25de engine and loom to match.

[yogi000]

did the r33 come without vvt (variable cam thingi) that might cause probs with the r33 ecu since the rb25de head didnt come with it??? or it did???

I dunno i've u've seen this.... think it was a fast fours which had done a rb25det from a r34 into a 240 if my memory serves me right......you seen that, could provide some help there..??..

good luck dude, should be a nice ride when complete!!!

[YO880]

yeah, rb25de came in non-vct (R32) and VCT (R33)

nope, hadn't seen that one before, will definantly have to look it up, was it a 240Z or 240K? and idea rough timeframe of when that issue was out?

ta

[yogi000]

i'll have a look tonight at home and let ya know, but i'm pretty sure it was this year.

[fatz]

you would have to ICV the car witha turbo 3 liter twin cam

cost about 2k

[YO880]

Icv?

[72GT]

I dunno i've u've seen this.... think it was a fast fours which had done a rb25det from a r34 into a 240 if my memory serves me right......you seen that, could provide some help there..??..

Hey guys, this prompted a memory of an old magazine I have, Feb/March 1997 ZOOM extreme performance magazine Volume 1 No.6. Article by Julian Edgar.

This issue has PART 3 of Project Skyline, An RB20DET into a C210 (~1979) Skyline Coupe. 7~8 pages on wiring up the engine!!.

Any other magazine horders out there , check your stash for other issues with this project. Probably started late in 1996.

I can drop it off at Kents if needed

Jim.

[YO880]

Wow, what a fantastic find! i would be especially gratefull if anyone has the section on installing the gearbox into that car (especially hooking up the speedo/tacho)

Jim, i will contact you and come up to yours to pick it up soon? anyone else if you have a copy, please scan it in and email it to me! [email protected]

thanks!

[drunkenmaster]

Any further progress on the engineering?

I am in japan at the moment but have a similar project sitting at home in melbourne, waiting to hear whats legal before I purchase an ECU here. I will get a friend to do some anonymous phone calls to vicroads and any engineers but would like to hear what you guys find from the relevant authorities. I have search for months and the best available info is only heresay, very few people actually get in touch with the authorites and even less post info on a successfully engineered car.

[YO880]

nope not yet, hopefully i will get a chance next weekend to head over to the engineers

let me know what your phone calls reveal!