Aussie Skyline History

[cazz]

Cazz,

Why was there ever an Aussie built Skyline?

I have just read another of your posts referring to locally made R31's, so obviously you do know that there were R31's made here. But for those of you who would like to know, I have replied anyway.

The Aussie R31, (Not the imports we see here now), were all built at the Clayton Factory.

All locally delivered R31's were built at Clayton. Engines/gearboxes were japanese, as well as a few other bits and pieces, but in Series 1/2,l 90 percent of panels were made here, interiors were made here, had an 80 percent local content. Series 3's were a little different, and dropped to about 70 - 75 percent local content depending on the model. The only local part of the drivetrain - the Diff, was the cars only achilles heel.

[Ghostrider]

I have just read another of your posts referring to locally made R31's, so obviously you do know that there were R31's made here. But for those of you who would like to know, I have replied anyway.

The Aussie R31, (Not the imports we see here now), were all built at the Clayton Factory.

All locally delivered R31's were built at Clayton. Engines/gearboxes were japanese, as well as a few other bits and pieces, but in Series 1/2,l 90 percent of panels were made here, interiors were made here, had an 80 percent local content. Series 3's were a little different, and dropped to about 70 - 75 percent local content depending on the model. The only local part of the drivetrain - the Diff, was the cars only achilles heel.

I know about the local content, where in Oz they were built didn't matter, but correct me if I'm wrong ................. but it is my understanding that the Ozzy R31 was born due to a legacy left by Malcolm Frazer that all locally sold o/seas vehicles had to have 80% local content, for them to get the imported parts into the country under by law tarrif classifications and avoid huge import duty as part of his ideas to streamline the Australian Auto Industry.

Hence the RB powered VL's, Holden Astra (Pulsar) and flow ons like Holden/Toyota, Nissan/Ford etc.

Cheers.

[cazz]

Thats Exactly right. It was called the Button plan, after Senator John Button devised a saviour for the local car industry. It also predicted that there would only be 3 local car manufacturers by year 2000. It was almost right, we are still waiting for mitsubishi to fall off their perch, despite building very good cars.

A car to claim to be locally made, had to have 80 percent, or more local content. All this did for us, was made our local cars more expensive, and didn;t do a thing to help build quality. Because of ultra high import tarrifs, local manufacturers had inflated pricing that they could get away with, because imports were so expensive. For a comparison, my first new R31, was a series 3 Silhouette, bought in December 1989. It cost $28,100.00 on the road. 15 plus years later, a new commodore, doesn't cost you much more. The average price of cars has only risen by some 15 percent max, but wages have doubled, and we now get airbags, abs and cruise control etc., as standard.

[Ghostrider]

Sorry! but you lost me with "Mitsubishi building very good cars"

I don't think anything Mitsubishi is much good with the exceptions of Lancer & Mirage.

I don't know if your aware of this, but in the early 90's Mitsubishi had a "Fast Moving Parts Catalogue" as I suspect most manufacturers would have, but in Mitsubishi's case on the first page was ENGINES. That alone was enough for me.

Something else you might want to consider.

Are you aware, that up till about 1999, Mitsubishi dealers across the state, although having the assistance of Wheels Car of the Year, Lancers & Mirages many times and probably two of the best small cars ever built, FAILED TO TURN A PROFIT.

And we wonder why they haven't fallen off the perch yet.

Also, it was in some part the same dinosaur thinking (Button plan) that brought about the downfall of Leyland in Australia.

Are you aware of why BMC or BL actually closed their doors in Australia?

And as this is a Nissan forum, "Do you know where the original 1200cc 4 cyl Bluebird engine came from"

Cheers, D

[66yostagea]

In fact i had a datsun kingcab in about 1989 1t was the old A40 motor

Edited April 30, 2006 by 66yostagea

[Ghostrider]

In fact i had a datsun kingcab in about 1989 1t was the old A40 motor

I knew you would know the answer my friend, but I wondered if the youngens knew.

It takes old fossils like us to know some of these things.

It was the same design, as Nissan bought the plans off Leyland in the UK and took them back to Japan & lightened it somewhat. I think the Nissan version was near on 100kg lighter than the BMC version.

[cazz]

As I am now where near being a youngen, I too knew that the engine in the 1000 was an "Austin" engine. BMC as it was know then, and then Leyland Australia. Leyland went belly up, coz they spent too much money trying to rush the P76 out to customers. As much as it was great in theory, the Aussies never liked it, and it was poorly built. What a great V8 it had though.

It is the same as the Prince GT motor was a Benz design, the Japs just made it better.

As for Mitsubishi building good cars, I still stand by that. The 380, and the previous 3 model magna's would have to have been the best put together cars in Australia for the last 10 years. Unfortunately, Australians have a tendancy to remember that the first magna (in 1985) was a bit of a pig, and the car has suffered in reputation from then. We have quickly forgotten that the EA ford and the VN commodore were also cops, but it hasn't affected their reputation at all.

Bit like Australian Motor Sport in 1992. If you can't beat them ban them. We are a fickle lot.

[Ghostrider]

As I am now where near being a youngen, I too knew that the engine in the 1000 was an "Austin" engine. BMC as it was know then, and then Leyland Australia. Leyland went belly up, coz they spent too much money trying to rush the P76 out to customers. As much as it was great in theory, the Aussies never liked it, and it was poorly built. What a great V8 it had though.

It is the same as the Prince GT motor was a Benz design, the Japs just made it better.

As for Mitsubishi building good cars, I still stand by that. The 380, and the previous 3 model magna's would have to have been the best put together cars in Australia for the last 10 years. Unfortunately, Australians have a tendancy to remember that the first magna (in 1985) was a bit of a pig, and the car has suffered in reputation from then. We have quickly forgotten that the EA ford and the VN commodore were also cops, but it hasn't affected their reputation at all.

Bit like Australian Motor Sport in 1992. If you can't beat them ban them. We are a fickle lot.

Cazz,

You are probably one of the three oldest members of SAU that I know of, you can probably guess the other two.

Couple of things though, BMC/British Leyland didn't go bust building the P76 as such.

The biggest single action that bought about the demise of the company was the Australian Motoring Media, that made certain decisions about Australia not being big enough to support 3 Car manufacturers and it's totally negative publicity campagne it waged against the P76.

As the P76 was not Australia's favourite, it wasn't as bad as the media made out.

As a matter of fact, it was Chrysler in South Australia that drove the final nail in British Leyland's coffin.

If you cast your memory back to 1973, when Chrysler, Ford & Holden were all building the super car just to win Bathurst, yet one car would have stood in their way. Chrysler had a 427 Hemi Charger on the go, Ford an equally big 7 litre GT Falcon and Holden the 305? V8 LJ XU2.

As for popularity in cars, I think the first Magna was the TM. If you put the P76 and the TM series Magna side by side, they are very similar in a lot of respects, just years apart and the Magna, a smaller version.

Similarly the JB Camira was a pig, yet the JE was a great little car. The engine it's best asset, the same engine that became the bottom end of the DOHC Calibra engine.

I agree the 3.5 V6 series of Magna's were a nice car and carried probably too much stigma from the early cops, but are you aware the 380 has had more recalls than can be counted on both hands. Lots of little things, but still recalls, as they were considered as that potentially dangerous.

When you add them to the time it took to get the 380 into the market place, I think they could have done much better.

Cheers, D

[cazz]

Evan Green killed the supercars in 1973, with one newspaper article. His career never recovered after that either. Leyland Australia was in deep shit before the P76 was even released. It was foundering on it's own, away from it's parent company.

Aside from safety recalls, to which I confess to knowing nothing about, the 380 is still better built than either the current holden or ford. BUT, the build quality of the Aussie R31 shat all over the same era Holden's and Ford's too. I can remember when I traded my 4 month old VN V8 manual in on my first ever Skyline, the Skyline fit and finish made the commodore look and feel like it had done 100,000 kays instead of 13,000.

The JE Camira was a great car. This engine was also used in the N13 Pulsar in 1.6 and 1.8 litre forms, is still used in the Vectra. Astra, and most Daewoo 4 cylinder cars. The Camira suffered the same fate as the Magna, it was never forgiven for being an ordinary car, yet the JD pre unleaded and the JE were fantastic.

As far as the Commodores and Falcon's go, we Aussies just keep accepting what we are dished up, but some of us refuse to buy their product, and that, makes us look unpatriotic.

[66yostagea]

I bought my MR30 TI Hatch in Jan 1984 and it was delivered in June. On the road with $2000 extras it was $19,000. Its a bit the worse for wear now after 600ks.

When its lease was up in 88, I went for a test run in an Aussie R31. There was no comparison. I kept the 30. The 31 may have been better than Holdens or Fords but it could not stand in the shadow of a 30.

Now I am back to Nissan Japan with a Stagea. It FEELS like a good vehicle

just like the 30.

[Ghostrider]

Evan Green killed the supercars in 1973, with one newspaper article. His career never recovered after that either. Leyland Australia was in deep shit before the P76 was even released. It was foundering on it's own, away from it's parent company.

Aside from safety recalls, to which I confess to knowing nothing about, the 380 is still better built than either the current holden or ford. BUT, the build quality of the Aussie R31 shat all over the same era Holden's and Ford's too. I can remember when I traded my 4 month old VN V8 manual in on my first ever Skyline, the Skyline fit and finish made the commodore look and feel like it had done 100,000 kays instead of 13,000.

The JE Camira was a great car. This engine was also used in the N13 Pulsar in 1.6 and 1.8 litre forms, is still used in the Vectra. Astra, and most Daewoo 4 cylinder cars. The Camira suffered the same fate as the Magna, it was never forgiven for being an ordinary car, yet the JD pre unleaded and the JE were fantastic.

As far as the Commodores and Falcon's go, we Aussies just keep accepting what we are dished up, but some of us refuse to buy their product, and that, makes us look unpatriotic.

I gotta agree with your Ford & Holden comments though.

A little true story that actually happened to me.

In 1972 I had a job that involved the pre delivery of company vehicles and our dated fleet were HK & HT Holden Belmont Sedan's.

A deal was done for them to be replaced by run out XW and current XY Falcon sedans and Futuras.

I took delivery at City Ford at Oxford Street and took it back to the company garage on Elizabeth Street Redfern for all the usual checks.

In those days automatic pumps were in existance, so I hooked the auto clip on and proceeded to check oil, tyre pressure, water, etc, etc, etc and returned to the pump to check if full. The pump was still running with over 25 gallons on the meter. As these falcons had only 16 gallon tanks I figured there was a problem.

I turned the pump off and opened the boot and guess what, it was full of petrol.

The tank fitted hadn't been welded together properly and the petrol spilled out into the boot once past half full.

Another, the very next week had a right front brake calliper fall off under braking for the bottom of Mt Ouseley, in transit to Shellharbour.

Good start for the new fleet eh!

The JD not so much, cause they left the power steering pump in same position as JB.

VN's right on again, saw many a new V6 scatter in less than 10K.

And I will have a look through my archives and try to post you some of the designs the god's at Leyland overlooked for the ugly thing they settled with for P76.

As for in trouble, that they were, but Chrysler still buried them.

Cheers, D

[72GT]

OK... about time we got this thread out of whatever parallel universe it has wandered into and back onto The history of Skylines in Australia.

..Although what I'm about to ask may seem to be from an alternate universe

It has been stated that a Datsun dealer in South Australia (Ken Eustace) in late January of 1972 did offer for sale at least one Nissan Skyline 2000 GT-R. That's the S20 engined two door of 1971-2 (KPGC10). It has been described as off white, black bonnet, fitted with minilites and went to Woomera with an RAF pilot who eventually shipped off to Germany with the car.

If you are reading this and it strikes a familiar note or think you can offer anything constructive to either proving or disproving the sale of any C10 series Skyline anywhere in Australia during late 1969 to 1973 I would love to hear about it on this forum! Perhaps you or someone you know lived there or were involved in the motorsport scene in South Australia at the time. The Prince Skyline GT and Nissan Prince A200 GT presence appears to have been strong in South Australia leading up to this time. Anyone associated with these cars at the time would have been more likely than most to have seen or heard about it. They are also most likely going to be 50+

To my knowledge there are 5 C10 series Skylines, all KGC10's currently in Australia, only two of which bear any resemblance to how they left the factory!

• one in WA
  
• two in NSW
  
• two in Victoria
  

During the mid eighties an S20 that had been removed from a Z432 (not in OZ) was sold from Victoria and went overseas.

Please feel free to add anything of interest on this subject .

Jim.

P.S. I've added a few memory prompting ( I hope!) pics of some unmolested examples of the KGC10, and a white KPGC10. Just imagine the skinny wheels from the silver gt-r on the white car and thats how it should have looked at the dealer.

Edited May 15, 2006 by 72GT

[floody]

It has been stated that a Datsun dealer in South Australia (Ken Eustace) in late January of 1972 did offer for sale at least one Nissan Skyline 2000 GT-R. That's the S20 engined two door of 1971-2 (KPGC10). It has been described as off white, black bonnet, fitted with minilites and went to Woomera with an RAF pilot who eventually shipped off to Germany with the car.

If you are reading this and it strikes a familiar note or think you can offer anything constructive to either proving or disproving the sale of any C10 series Skyline anywhere in Australia during late 1969 to 1973 I would love to hear about it on this forum!

Its a shame group NC requires cars to have raced in Australia; imagine taking it up to the GTHOs, Mustangs, Toranas etc in a KPGC10 GT-R in full Japanese works style trim with the S20 screaming away.....

Thats really a very interesting story, surely if there is any truth there would have to be some sort of records? Customs VIN number record (surely wouldn't have been shipped in CKD), Nissan Japan sales records/export records, SA motor registry records, Military records (military rego?). There has to be some sort of record of the thing.

Edited June 28, 2006 by floody

[hot_c210]

i recommened this site http://www.inthejob.com/

in the tasmania link there is a photo of a r31 skyline just going back to page 2 of this thread

[aarc240]

This may help with definitive dating the C110 in Australia.

Our KHGC110 000302 carries an 02/73 ADR plate from 'Nissan Motor Co (Aust) P/L' which describes it as a Datsun Coupe GT.

Does anyone really KNOW what was the commencement chassis number - just seems very unlikely that there were 301 cars before this one unless that includes JDM chassis too!

[V8skylineMAN]

just to throw a spanner in the works, my C210 coupe (the now crumpled V8 one) says on the build plate 240K, not skyline, but all othe C210s ive seen say skyline on the build plate.

it is a very ealy C210 tho, the vin no is KMGC210 000321

[Jono_c210]

just to throw a spanner in the works, my C210 coupe (the now crumpled V8 one) says on the build plate 240K, not skyline, but all othe C210s ive seen say skyline on the build plate.

it is a very ealy C210 tho, the vin no is KMGC210 000321

mine says 240k on the plate too. KMGC210 000395....

im assuming in 77 they couldnt compliance them out here yet so they did them as 240k's ??

every parts catalog/etc i have seen says c210's were 78-81... yet mine was built in 77?

[66yostagea]

mine says 240k on the plate too. KMGC210 000395....

im assuming in 77 they couldnt compliance them out here yet so they did them as 240k's ??

every parts catalog/etc i have seen says c210's were 78-81... yet mine was built in 77?

Have a look and see if was built in PLANT 5. If it was its a Skyline. All Skylines' including Stageas, have been built in the original Prince factory, No5.

Another good look in Google is "nissan wikipedia"

[Mr Camouflage]

Ok Some more history nobodys mentioned so far.

In 1974's Hardie-Ferodo 1000 at Bathurst, A 240K was raced by Stewart McLeod and Doug Whiteford. It came second in its class (class C, class winner was an RX3) and 7th outright.

[66yostagea]

Ok Some more history nobodys mentioned so far.

In 1974's Hardie-Ferodo 1000 at Bathurst, A 240K was raced by Stewart McLeod and Doug Whiteford. It came second in its class (class C, class winner was an RX3) and 7th outright.

Nice bit of history. WTF are a csp311 (Fairlady?) and an S30 ? I've looked in Wiki but it is a bit sketchy.