Drag racing suspected in crash deaths-StKilda

[martydaman]

Yea it was a very very foolish mistake to make even more so due to the full car factor, but we all make mistakes. The drivers happened to be somthing that will change things forever and he will live with for the rest of his life i think this alone will be punishment enough

i just dont see how drag racing with a full car can be justified as a "mistake". How could any sane human being even contemplate the idea of putting other peoples lives in danger (including his own).

Im just angry that stuff like this happens. I dont care if the dude killed himself if he was racing, that would be totaly his choice and his problem but i dont think the other passenger deserved it.

Nobody has the right to put others lives in danger

Things like this give all imports a bad name and ruin it for those who do the right thing

[dineth]

"Bloody idiots, yet another reason why 18-21 y.o's should be kept out of these cars!"

i cant belive what a lot of you guys are saying, having a go at all the 18 and 21 year olds.

OK sure i understand where a lot of you are comming from, but when you was 18-21, if you could have had a R33 or soemthing, wouldnt u have jumped to get one? and if you say no, then you gotta be kidding.

Im 21 and just about to get of my P's, and ive had my R33 gts-t since i was 18. It was my first car. I love it.

It is very one eyed to say "all P plate drivers on skylines are hoons" i know some who are, but weather its a R33 or a Wrx or a Vl, it all comes down to one thing. The person who drives the damn thing.

I drive up and down princess highway all the time (cos i goto uni at clayton) and often get dickheads who wants to drag and so on, but u jus ignore them. In the wet, take extra care cos we all know R33's are a nightmare to drive in the wet. I only really use the power to overtake. It dont matter wha car u have, if u hit a pole at high speeds, chances of living are very minimal.

Sure, ive given it to the car here and there, on open rural roads when there is NO one in the car with me. Who hasnt? but its all about using ur brains and maing the correct judgements.

[dineth]

also like to add that i have done over 40,000 clicks since i got the car, 0 fines and only been pulled over by the cops 2 times for random breath test. Have never even asked to look at anything in the car. My car is 100% stock, and again, everyone complains about being dicked by cops and being targted by police, its pretty simple guys. if u break the law, u pay for it. Regardless if u have pod or been speeding or crash your car at high speeds.

[Rezz]

Guys, I've read all the posts here, and I concur to a degree, but:

a) I believe how well you can *drive* (not just a performance car but all cars) depends almost entirely on MATURITY. How many guys on their P's right now can swear black and blue that they are mature? Maturity provides the basis for all actions, for everything. Accessing the situation and acting in a mature way while driving takes alot of experience and, dare I say, maturity... something which - obviously - can only occur after many years.

B) Whos to say the deceased didn't egg the driver on? Whose to say the deceased weren't playing with the stereo (whatever) when the crash occured? Sure, the driver was "in control" of the vehicle before impact, but it's quite possible that the deceased played a part in their own deaths.

I can only imaging the scene inside that Skyline before the crash, and this kinda shinanigans goes on every weekend all over Australia.

I'll go out on a limb here... after living over 4 years in Japan and seen many a young fool driving high powered cars here, the per capita incedence of under 25 year old automotive fatalities is almost non-existent in the media. Then look at a place like Australia... it seems almost every youngster on his P's thinks he's a fuggin' HERO behind the wheel or not... almost like they've got this fake idea that "Oooh, those Japs drift on the street and dragrace and sh*t... teh cops over there are sooo coool!!!11!" Bullsh*t. Young drivers in Japan have overall more respect for authority. Fullstop. Theres your answer.

Not suprised with the negative press at all.

[seraphyn_r33]

this kind of thread happens every time some foolish person kills themselves in an import. I saw the report and i was pissed off for a variety of reasons.

1.) skyline. even more bad rep for the car and the people driving them

2.) "possible" drag racing, more bad rep

3.) full car with the majority of passengers being killed

Now dont get me wrong, my condolences to the victims. But the fact that all it takes is one person to ruin it for everyone really pisses me off. Ever since i started driving ive had it drummed into me, that by all means race, but do it on a race track where it belongs. I dont need to prove anything to anyone on the street in my car. If i needed to, i would put it on the dyno, or put it down the strip or get some quick laps in at winton or some shit, put it on paper and show everyone. The sad thing here is that the passengers are the ones who died from this, the most likely innocent people in this situation.

If they werent drag racing, then its a horrible accident with an inexperienced driver losing control of his car, which then raises the issue that there has to be a better licensing system, with better training. If he was drag racing then he was a inconsiderate f**khead who has given the rest of the import community more or a bad name and killed his mates.

Bottom line, which has been said over and over again, provisional drivers need to be better trained, so should they get into any car they will have at least better control of it. p-platers are not fully at fault, they are merely products of the system that put them on the road.

Its not the car its the driver.

Ya gotta also remember, the media loves stories like this, young people and high powered cars is a hot topic and the media will latch onto it like a dog with a bone, so it makes people like us look even worse.

[OnTheBoost]

i just dont see how drag racing with a full car can be justified as a "mistake". How could any sane human being even contemplate the idea of putting other peoples lives in danger (including his own).

Everyone makes mistakes this just alot more major than most.

Im not saying it's the passengers fault at all but they did get into the car knowing what can happen.

Ive got into a car with a pisst driver going down the eastern at 170 it was a stupid mistake on my part but i knew the risks and foolishly enough took them by getting in to the car

I dont think it can be totally blamed on the driver, being 18 i know what the pressure of mates in the car can do when a drag situation comes up.

[dineth]

I agree to a certain extent, but a lot of pplz say P platers should all have a 'advanced driver trianing course" > this itself causes problems. who sets these courses and how effective will they be? honetly. Now im not denying that giving people more skills bu having these courses will ulitmietly benifit them, however there is the danger that people will get ****y cos "they have done a advanced driving course" i know some pplz (even on here) who has done a 3 hour course with some 3rd grade race driver and all of a sudden they are 'expert drivers'. I think it all comes down to experince.

[pushead]

its pretty simple guys. if u break the law, u pay for it. Regardless if u have pod or been speeding or crash your car at high speeds.

you just contradict yourself. You've been driving your 'stock' skyline since you were 18. Does that mean you have broke the law since it is illegal to drive an R33 on p's?

[Tigger]

SH!T

I saw it on the night news just then...

/rant

I just wanna say that while being young causes you to take more risks, the most important factor is EXPERIENCE, not just clocking the number of years driving, but of driving a high powered turbo car.

I recently bought my skyline about 3 months ago and before that i was driving my parent's honda accord. The accord has some good pickup but nowhere near the skyline.

I've had my licence for over 6 years with no traffic offences (although i have done many stupid things) except for 2 accidents. The first was in the accord where i was in bumper to bumper traffic on a warm day and i dozed off and rolled into the car infront. The second accident occurred 2 weeks into my ownership of the skyline. I took a corner, the boost came on unexpectedly and the back end slipped out, fishtailed, did a 540, hit the kerb, mounted the footpath luckily in between 2 telegraph poles = $3000 of damage. I count myself bloody lucky in that accident, i could have killed a pedestrian or myself.

What caused the accident?

I had no experience in a RWD car.

I had no experience with turbo cars.

Even after 6 years of driving experience, and having gotten the hooning out of my system, my lack of experience caused the accident.

SO........ Go get advanced driver training... In a turbo car

While im having a rant, onto another point...

Why is it that the tools in the pissy civics, lancers, and excels always have to tailgate and want to drag you? Only such idiots have so far tried to g me up for a drag. I've never really bothered with them bcoz we both know my car will win, and because i value my licence

I just dont get it... they see a skyline and automatically assume they're up for a drag... its like little kids on a bus signaling to a passing truckie to pull the horn... idiots.

/end rant

[Astroboy]

you cant always blame the car..

you dont need a 160kw RWD turbo import to have a car accident...

you do something stupid in a barina and you can kill someone, do serious damage..

A skyline is just going to make it easier, doesnt make it happen.

[dineth]

"you just contradicted yourself. You've been driving your 'stock' skyline since you were 18. Does that mean you have broke the law since it is illegal to drive an R33 on p's?"

i knew someone would say this. Yes fair point, even though you could technically get into hot water with this issue, most guys i know with stock turbo cars dont have any probs with cops. Like i said i drive up and own the princess highway (notorious for canaries) everyday and i have never had any problems. Often ive been waved passed by cops.

Antoher point id like to add is, if you belive that anything over 125 kw's is 2 high for a P plater, then what if you jus got off ur p's and bought a 250 kw R33? And u used to have a say a corololla or soemthing. I think this is a worse scenario. A lot of people on here have cars well over 200kw's...then you could argue..do u really need a 200kw car. how long is a peice of rope?

[Laurence]

Antoher point id like to add is, if you belive that anything over 125 kw's is 2 high for a P plater, then what if you jus got off ur p's and bought a 250 kw R33? And u used to have a say a corololla or soemthing. I think this is a worse scenario.

So what you are saying is that you think it is worse for a person with three years experience to go from a low powered car to a high powered car than to have a person with zero experience go into a not quite so powerful car. riiiiight

[dineth]

it was a personal opinion mate. its fine if u dont agree. one may think that becuase they have 3 years of driving under their belt, thay know everything, but driving a high powerd car is a whole new ball game. I know it takes me a few hours to adjust to my dads mazda 6 when ever we go on long trips (and i have done many hours on this b4 i got my R33) so i cant even imagine how it would be like to have it the other way around. But what im trying to say is, it dont matter how old you are or what car you drive, it comes down to how mature you are.

[dineth]

"Why is it that the tools in the pissy civics, lancers, and excels always have to tailgate and want to drag you? Only such idiots have so far tried to g me up for a drag. I've never really bothered with them bcoz we both know my car will win, and because i value my licence

I just dont get it... they see a skyline and automatically assume they're up for a drag"

this is so true. Good on ya for thinking with ur head then your dick mate. Its funny though, a lot of the dickheads that come up behhind me and tailgate me are guys who have high powerd commodores or fords and are off their p's.

Figures will show that most teens who die in fatal car crashes usually drive fords or holdens. So i dont know why the cops target us heaps. this is the 2nd fatal R33 crash in australia that ive heard about this year. I guess one will argue that its 2 too many.

[typevu]

dineth: its only tha idiots that think that....

ain't it bullshiet how an import car crashes the news and cops go crazy over it and say all these bullshiet eg... 'high powered' 'p platers' 'drag racing'......man those poof would say anything just to make it sound worse then it already is! they don't know for sure if they were drag racing! p platers? maybe but they still didn't state if it was p plates they only mentioned the age of the two that died... hi powered? a v8 crashes and they just all it a holden or don't even bother putting it on tha news at all!!!

[dineth]

yes so true...and again like a few people ahve already said it was a "HONDA" and a "SKYLINE" not a Nissan a "skyline" what a Fkin joke. I mean if they said say a Integra and a skyline fair enough, but why say the make of one car brand and then a model of another. The media here is ***d, but hey, its nothing new. millions of people are dying in sudan cos of genocide but Chris Judd's g/f's dress gets 10x more news coverage. ***d up world.

[Starionturbo]

Hmm i Knew a young vietanamese kid i worked with in melbourne who had a Silver R33 and hes name was Koah Nguyen - you guys rekons this guys name was Nguyen? he used to come on SAU as West somthing.

If so hes like 23-24. I hope it isnt. Try and find out who it was.

Anyways. I hear a lot of you ranting on about p platers in skylines n stuff. Over here in Perth we have our licenses at 17 and people get skylines and a lot of them tend to be careful. You can kill yourself in any vehicle wether it be a little pulsar or a skyline. I dont beleive it is a good idea to be driving a modified skyline on your P plates but i dont see how a stock turbo one cud be any more dangerous than a V6 commodore.

It all comes down to the drivers attitude. I am 20 now and ive owned 4 turbocharged cars since I got my license. Ive had two 12 second cars, a 12 second 180sx and a now a 12 second R32 and I know that it all comes down to the right attitude when driving any cars. I am off my P plates In WA and I never got hassled by police when I had them.

If I could do anything to change the policies on P platers in fast cars, I would get proper driver training done as a part of gaining ur license, so that the learner can see the effects of a car that loses control and how easy it is to lose control if they drive stupidly.

[dineth]

starionturbo: some very valid points.

The crashed car was Black, not silver so prob not the guy your talking about. Plus there are so mnay Nguyens with R33's, there are 2 at my uni alone! luckily it was none of those guys. But i rang them up to check anyway. you always feel it a lot more when its the same car u drive.

[Laurence]

St Kilda speed strip claims two young lives

By Selma Milovanovic, Mathew Murphy

October 6, 2004

The stretch of Dandenong Road in St Kilda where two Melbourne teenagers yesterday lost their lives in what may have been a street race was notorious for illegal street racing, locals said.

Neighbours XXXXX XXXXX, 18, and XXXXX Nguyen, 19, both of Essendon, died when the driver of the Nissan Skyline they were travelling in lost control and crashed into a pole near the Upton Road overpass just after 1am. The driver and front seat passenger, both believed to be in their late teens or early 20s, were taken to hospital with minor injuries.

Police were investigating reports that the Skyline and a silver Honda Civic were travelling side by side, west along Dandenong Road, before the smash. Sergeant Ron Perrett, of the major collision investigation unit, said the part of Dandenong Road where the smash occurred passed through a cutting under St Kilda Junction and "had a history over the years of cars using this section of road for racing".

Both families were yesterday receiving trauma counselling at The Alfred. Mr Nguyen's younger sister Wendy described him as a "generous dude" who was a "loving older brother". Frank Curtain said his family were trying to come to terms with their loss: "It's a very tragic thing that has happened but it makes us appreciate what we have got."

Local residents called on the authorities to act to prevent more teenage deaths on the busy road they described as a well-known spot for illegal street racing. "Gerald", who lives within walking distance of the accident scene, told 3AW that races were a "nightly occurrence, from 10 o'clock at night right until the early hours of the morning".

"It's been going for three years. It's because of the underground bypass between the two junctions. (It happens) every night of the week, till five or six o'clock in the morning," he said.

Other residents told 3AW that groups of teenagers were often seen parking near the corner of Dandenong Road and Chapel Street and later participating in what appeared to be organised illegal street races.

Premier Steve Bracks said the Victorian Government was considering mandatory defensive driving classes for learner drivers, and would investigate the effectiveness of the classes with the Federal Government and other state governments. "We don't want to get the message across . . . that somehow you are impregnable, that because you do the defensive driving course, you can take risks," he told 3AW.

Attorney-General Rob Hulls said the accident was a tragedy, but any assumptions about the cause of the fatal crash were premature while the police investigation continued.

Terry House, chairman of the Teenagers Road Accident Group, said passengers should speak out. "You can definitely say, 'stop this now, or I'll be coming to your grave site'," Mr House said.

Ian Craven, assistant manager at Calder Park, said the accident should never have happened when there were places designed for people to race in a safe environment, such as Calder Park and Heathcote Park. "They are endangering lives out there," he said. "What if that car hadn't hit the pole and instead hit some woman on her way home from shift work?"

The occupants of the Honda were helping police with their inquiries.

The accident brings the state's road toll to 271.

---------------------------------------

As with all "shocking" accident pics. It would have been good to see what the car looked like before the Fire Brigade went to town on the car with the "jaws of life"

[Laurence]

And another one...

Why are male teenagers risk-takers?

October 6, 2004

Young men are three times as likely as young women to die on our roads. Kenneth Nguyen reports.

Fuelled by a sense of invincibility and "the need for speed", men under 25 are the most likely to die on Australian roads.

Three times as many young male drivers as young female drivers were killed in 2002, according to the Australian Transport Safety Bureau's most recent statistics.

A Sweeney Research survey conducted for AAMI last year showed 19 per cent of young drivers had driven after taking recreational drugs, 19 per cent believed "It's OK to drink and drive so long as I feel capable" and 24 per cent exceeded speed limits all or most of the time.

Psychologist John Cheetham said young men were drawn to risky behaviour by biological and mental factors. "They're full of testosterone, they're all pumped up . . . and they also have an enormous false belief in their own skill level," he said.

A lack of self-awareness meant young men commonly acted on competitive urges without thinking of the potential consequences, he said.

RMIT marketing lecturer Con Stavros also pointed out the impact of computer games, films such as The Fast and the Furious, and car marketing campaigns that emphasised speed.

Although car advertisers are subject to a voluntary code of conduct that bans displays of unsafe driving, that code only applies to depictions of driving on public roads.

Illegal street racing is popular among young men who find a sense of belonging and masculinity by identifying with particular cars.

"Just as we're almost forced to pick a football team to follow at a young age, some are almost forced to pick a car racing team," Mr Stavros said.

Easily modified Japanese models such as the Honda Civic have a strong following among young Asian drivers, car enthusiasts said yesterday. Caucasian racers are more often seen in "big bore street machines" such as V8 Holdens and Fords.

Car enthusiasts also warned against a new dangerous practice known as "drifting". Popularised in Japanese motor magazines, drifting involves the driver causing the loss of rear traction around corners and holding the car in a sliding arc.