My P Plater/Hi-Po car plan! VOTE ME!

[SS8_Gohan]

ok, so it's all over the news. P platers and Hi-Po cars. blah blah. Nothing new here, move a long. And with so much ambiguity over cars listed down at Vic Roads, and cars which are obviously over the power/weight ratio, but not listed, the whole thing is a big f*cking mess. I've come up with a plan to sought al this crap out here goes...

I think this is a relatively easy fix. We all know that nothing magically happens when you get off your P's that means you can safely drive a hi-po vehicle. The easist way i see to fix this problem is still allow P platers to drive hi-po vehicles, providing they sit COMPLETELY different test/s, resulting in TWO types of licenses. Normal license and then something along the lines of...

Stage 1: Normal everyday P plate test.

Stage 2: Defensive driving course

Stage 3: Advanced driving course (names arbritrary)

Stage 4: Performance driving course.

After the normal test, to pass the subsequent courses become INCREASINGLY difficult. Judged quite harshly.

Whether or not you'd have stage 3 i'm not sure. BUT i still think this is a good way to go. If you're a young driver and want to drive a hi-po car, by all means do it, BUT pay more money and complete a couple extra skill intensive and difficult to complete driving courses. At the end of the day, you can drive a freakin F1 car on the roads if you can rego it

Basically you'll hold a High Performance License, kinda a CAMS type thing, but for P platers to be allowed to drive hi-po vehicles.

And before anyone says, this wil just encourage crazy driving once they get their Hi-Po license, i envisage these tests to be HARD with a capital B. You will get the wake up call that everyone seems to get once they are in a car that's out of control, and with the subesquent courses, P platers will get a very solid grounding on how to control a car in all situations.

and that's my 2 cents

cheers.

[siksII]

sounds good and fair to me

should be in all states

but there is no way it will happen, it would be way to inconvenient for the government, as are all the other logical paths to actually reducing the road toll.

[blind_elk]

IMHO, the Defensive course should actually be included in the original "learn to drive" bit. From a perception point of view, I don't think you should have a stage called "performance" - I think it will only add to the public perception that P-platers in hi-po cars are hoons.

I reckon that things might get better if P-platers had to pass the Advanced / Hi-po driving course to get off their Ps.

[Mavric]

Mate totally agree with you i dont think you could get any more right in what you are saying... I think the best way we can get this to happen is start a petition and find the right places to send it.... maybe we need a voting system set up which can be signed on the website maybe the committee could look into this and get back to us on it.... we also need to be able to get the pertition signed out of SAU as well if possible...

[Leewah]

I like the idea of this however I'm gonna play the Devil's Advocate in this thread and pose this to you.

If I'm aged 18-20 and I've just sat my stage 4 test and passed with flying colors, does this give me the right to drive like a fricken idiot on public roads? Other people shouldn't be allowed to do this coz they haven't passed the test like I have.

I'm a professional driver now coz my state licencing center has given me a sticker to tell me so and coz I suppposedly know my car and roads better than other people, I have the right to drive fast, cut others off and do other stupid things on the streets.

As was posted by Rezz in the "other" thread, although experience and training are a big factor in this issue, another issue which people are neglecting is respect for authority. People in this country go out of their way to show rebellious behaviour. The number of high powered Skylines in Japan driven by young people defiantely outweigh us and yet they don't seem to have as many problems on the streets. People in this country, both young and old need to start respecting road rules, licencing rules and other road users. Without this, the problem won't go away.

[Mavric]

Leewah mate u got it in one ur the Devil go away na jk... seriously you have a point but with the right training and possibly with the right influence you would just have to hope that the people who do pass have the maturity to drive sensibly... As in the "other" forum one dude said he was a formula 3 driver and he has had a few stacks as has Michael Schumacher and we all know he’s one awesome driver... if people can understand that even the best have accidents then maybe people will be sensible and follow the rules and not think that they are god... You would also have to hope that if people were shown how dangerous it is once you are in a spin at even 50km/h it might knock some sense into them and if it doesn’t well mate they are never going to change.....

[siksII]

people need the facts and risks demonstrated to them and, the laws need to be realistic!!!! they are definetly NOT at them moment which is why no one respects them! ie. Speeding.

[SKY031]

if people can understand that even *the professionals have accidents, then maybe people will be sensible and follow the rules and not think that they are god...

I can remember what it was like to be 18 (barely!)

When you are 18...

You think you know all there is to know in life.

You know better than everyone else.

You are invincible.

Fatal accidents only happen to other people.

When people see formula one drivers or supercar drivers fanging it around the track, they want to go and do the same thing.

It just turns out that the closest place to do it, is right outside the front door.

They don't give an instants thought to the fact that the only reason the professionals so often walk away from incredible stacks, is because their cars have roll cages, and they are wearing body suits and helmets.

The have medical crews on stand-by, all the other cars in the race are there by their own consent, and the drivers are aware that motor racing is a very dangerous sport, and even under such highly controlled conditions, deaths still occur.

In the wrong hands, a drivers licence is a licence to kill.

[inark]

see i would have to say that i find that generalisation quite untrue... not all teenagers think that way and thats why those stereotypes need to be flushed out of existance.

when i was 18 i didnt think i was invincible... i knew i could die from being wrapped around a pole. i think a compulsary advanced driving course should have been brought in years ago... for ur Ls.. Ps and ur full.

ive been cut off more time by people NOT on their Ps...

ive been attempted to drag off from the lights more by people NOT on their Ps...

ive seen more stupid shit done in a car or bus or truck or van by people NOT on their Ps.

Why focus on P platers... theyre easy targets.

[Zombie]

I think another good idea would be for people who acrue say 10 points should have to attend a driving course for "re-education"

I like the idea of an advanced driving course when you get your P's, and maybe another one when you wish to get off your P's.

I did the level 1 murcott course shortly after I go my skyline (wasnt on my p's), and I think I learnt more about my car and its braking ability in that day than I had in the previous 3 years.

Adam

[martydaman]

i agree with inark competely. The generalisation that all import drivers are "hoons" is incorrect and needs to change. Many skyline owners are responsible drivers, who like even normal people recieve the occasional speeding fine.

A compulsory driver education course (funded by the gov't) is an excellent idea, allowing inexperienced drivers to identify thier driving limits. The biggest killer of young drivers is experience (the lack of) not speed. An experienced driver can handle extreme situations whereas an inexperienced may not... that is it difference which must be bridged

[Zombie]

ive been cut off more time by people NOT on their Ps...

ive been attempted to drag off from the lights more by people NOT on their Ps...

ive seen more stupid shit done in a car or bus or truck or van by people NOT on their Ps.

Why focus on P platers... theyre easy targets.

I totally understand your point, but I think that while people are in their early years of driving it is the best time to educate them on safe driving. That way they dont start bad habits.

At the same time I think a lot of bad habits are probably picked up from their parents/family's driving.

P platers arent so set in their ways compared with someone who has been driving for 20, 30 years

Adam

[Mavric]

Mate i agree with inark .... i am on P's and i do drive a R33 but i am responsible on the road as i know it's capability and i am also aware of my own... i am planning on doing all the mercott courses when i save up enough to do them which will be around Christmas and would also like to get my CAMS licence... not to race the car but to understand it... as i said in a previous post im a pilot and i know the full limitations of the aircraft and that has been taught to me i didnt test it... i believe a similar situation should occur on the road as well...

And Inark is also right when it comes to other drivers who aren’t on p's some of them are no better and can even be worse than what you are saying we all apparently are...

[heartbrkr]

I know serveral people under 25, who think they are the shit when it comes to driving. they fool about in cars all the time. talk shit about limo-ing, drift packing, handies.

The fact they havent written a car off just compounds their attitude that they are invincible. Driving shit boxes also means dont give a hoot about damaging it.

Even the more sensible ones, who have had their first accident (and beyond), havent sobered up to speed kills etc, and think doing 80 in a 60 zone if there is no traffic is perfectly fine.

Only thing keeping us happy is that they dont drive skylines.

[SKY031]

sorry inark, i was stereotyping, but for a reason.. if you are not of that stereotype, then you're not a part of the problem on our roads.

I'd like to see frequent compulsory licence retesting.

..and people who have conditions on their licence need those conditions reviewed regularly.

Some people just become complacent and don't even realise how crap their driving is.

More widespread advertising of any changes to road rules would be handy.

and how about if you had to have a first-aid certificate to get a licence?

That way every car at the scene of an accident would carry at least one person who has a better chance of keeping injured people alive.

People who are repeat speeding offenders could do a couple of weeks community service at a rehabilitation unit where they can see for themselves the sort of damage that can be caused when a car hits a solid object.

There are so many angles that could be looked at...

[SS8_Gohan]

i know everyone says compulsory driving course, and i totally agree. And yes, this should be part of all licences. BUT if you want to drive a hi-po car, and maybed this can apply to ANY AGE (actually i REALLY think it should apply to everyone with a hi-po car) you need to do more than just you're normal AAMI driving course. AT LEAST 2 more courses, maybe simulating all situations. More expensive to get (heavily subsidised by government) and HARD to get. And the points Karina (?) made are important too, it shouldn't just be driving. Intensive education, involving car dynamics, medical training, real life scenarios. And pre-emptive things like knowing when accidents most likely occur, where they most likely happen, what are the most common factors involved. Intensive driving courses and extensive education.

Maybe even courses to simulate everything. A night time course, oil on the road, stupidly wet road, gravel, uneven dodgy roads, soft shoulders. Everything you would experience.

And i don't think someone who had gone through 3 extra courses and education just to get their hi-po licence will think they are the king of the road. If anything, if done properly, they would drive slower, allow more room between cars, etc.

cheers.

[Horus]

its sounds like it will work in theory....but then again communism works in theory as well

[GunMetalR33]

well said mate!!!

I like the idea of this however I'm gonna play the Devil's Advocate in this thread and pose this to you.

If I'm aged 18-20 and I've just sat my stage 4 test and passed with flying colors, does this give me the right to drive like a fricken idiot on public roads? Other people shouldn't be allowed to do this coz they haven't passed the test like I have.

I'm a professional driver now coz my state licencing center has given me a sticker to tell me so and coz I suppposedly know my car and roads better than other people, I have the right to drive fast, cut others off and do other stupid things on the streets.

As was posted by Rezz in the "other" thread, although experience and training are a big factor in this issue, another issue which people are neglecting is respect for authority. People in this country go out of their way to show rebellious behaviour. The number of high powered Skylines in Japan driven by young people defiantely outweigh us and yet they don't seem to have as many problems on the streets. People in this country, both young and old need to start respecting road rules, licencing rules and other road users. Without this, the problem won't go away.

[Ronin 09]

apparently you don't need a hi-po car to cause damage as a P plater... a girl P plater drove into the back drivers side quarter of my old man's 911 today :)

not sure what car yet (no one home) but still angy!

[SS8_Gohan]

oh no, that's not going to be cheap

what type of 911 pray tell?