Lap times - GTST vs GTR

[Duncan]

Oh I forgot to mention, GTR drivers are cheaters

[fatz]

and wankers generally

[GTRgeoff]

On a serious note, the standard setup of a GTR is so far ahead of the R33 GTS25t (as original cost would attest) that any advantage in weight is overcome. I'm yet to try my 25t on decent suspension but I have an expectation it will improve the result dramatically. With unmatched std shocks and harder springs it takes a delicate touch. The GTR track is wider as well and influences handling a huge amount.

Too much power in the GTS makes it too hard to go fast at PI and as Andrew said, you can maintain commitment in the GTR. For knore, I was running 220rwkw at 15psi and managed 2:03 on road rubber, then dropped to 11psi and went 2:00.6 so getting the power down becomes a problem out of a few critical corners. Sandown is one with tightish corners onto long straights so again the GTR will rule. We can't include Ben's GTR as an example due to the mods (is there a trach GTS with that much done to it? mine will take a while:D)but certainly Scotsman (chris) is a real demonstration of what a pretty stock GTR can do. Take the 5 seconds a lap out for cheater rubber at PI and he is then 3-4 seconds faster than me.

The R34 is undoubtedly an improvement again over the 33 in both models seeing the handling of Adz's car compared to mine. We were pretty well on par but I had roll bars. While I never got enough track time to be consistent I have put together individual laps earlier in my racing life to be on par with some of the top five to ten in my races in u2L sports sedans, clubman karts and F Ford (which was an awesome demonstrator for driver ability in equal equipment).

mostly though driver ability and commitment are the biggest influencing factors.....and I suck. I'd rather drive it home.

[Roy]

On a serious note, the standard setup of a GTR is so far ahead of the R33 GTS25t ....  .

:werd:

The way i see it they have bigger rotors, stiffer bodies and susp, better diffs, good intercooler, way more power with just an exhaust, boost increase and tune, slightly wider track and larger diameter and also wider rubber on all corners!

About the only fair comparison is skylinegeoffs R33 GTST vs Scotsmans GTR. But he cheats and uses sticky rubber.

Too much power in the GTS makes it too hard to go fast at PI and as Andrew said, you can maintain commitment in the GTR. For knore, I was running 220rwkw at 15psi and managed 2:03 on road rubber, then dropped to 11psi and went 2:00.6 so getting the power down becomes a problem out of a few critical corners.  

Dont really agree with that. Your car needs decent tyres and susp upgrade and a good alignment. How much more traction did you have with the stickies...then consider shocks/springs and a decent alignment. A well sorted GTST can handle way more then 220rwkws...i was making 206rwkws at PI and the thing was hooking up nicely:) (The few corners it ran properly:()

Biggest variable is driver and tyres...only have to look at Duncan/Fatz lap times in a std R33 with sticky rubber if you want to feel inadequate:(

[fatz]

gtr r gay!

get a 31 you poofters then you will see what a real car is

[Roy]

gtr r gay!

get a 31 you poofters then you will see what a real car is

edit...all import drivers are gay...real men drive brown Chryslers...be it a VF Valiant with the almighty Hemi or a Sigma with the big block 2.6L:thumbsup:

[fatz]

you have some valid point roy

i like it

[CSV Imports]

Hey snowman, bout your theory, I have tried and tested, and it has to do with the g sensors for the awd in gtr's. depending on where u are it can change dramaticaly. Phillip Island and in general, further north changes the effect of the lateral sensors, which in turn brings the front into play alot faster when exiting corners, further south, the opposite will happen. The best mod I have done to my gts-4 was to rotate the lateral g sensor 90 degrees, the result, fantastic handling, now i can exit corners and not have to worry bout losing it.

[CONRAD]

where is the lateral g sensor Chris? - wouldn't mind trying that.

[Silver-Arrowz]

Gimme some cheater tyres and lets talk about small ballz. Until then... :talk2hand

[Roy]

Gimme some cheater tyres and lets talk about small ballz. Until then...  :talk2hand

Your R32 already runs bigger wider 17s with the 4wd, thats enough cheating for you my friend:)

I seem to recall that you ran Race Brakes Comp 9s, what did you think of them? Im about to throw a set at my car, but i seem to recall that they kinda ate your rotors:( Perhaps i shoudl just throw them in the night before a day at the track?!?!?!

I was hoping to see how the GTST went up against the GTRs on the weekend, but my car was sabotaged by Snowmans mechanic to stop me from beating him:)

Disclaimer: if my car is as quick as any GTR with less then 240rwkws then i see that as a win:)

[adznight]

I've been having a think about this and I reckon the only things I could think of were when us RWD drivers break traction coming out of a corner we have to ride it out or back off, both will slow us down BUT when a 4WD breaks traction coming out of a corner all you do is point the car and floor it and the torque splitter does the rest, thats enough cheating in my opinion.

Oh another funny ones is when you have a GTR driver in the passenger seat and they say "break later, break later". The GTS-T and GTT breaks sure don't hold up like the GTR's. Any later and my car would be a smear on the wall, well an even bigger one than it is

[Silver-Arrowz]

Having 4WD does not compensate enough for having semi slicks. The cornering G's of 4WD are nowhere near RWD with slicks! Lets not forget how much later you can brake.

Comp 9's were REALLY good but they demolished my standard rotors. The DBA's seem to take it a lil better. Noisy though. But yeah, better as a track only option.

[Roy]

...The GTS-T and GTT breaks sure don't hold up like the GTR's. Any later and my car would be a smear on the wall, well an even bigger one than it is

LOL...that aint funny:(

But normally those same GTR drivers run sticky rubber and have susp work. It makes the car so much more stable and allows more confidence when braking. I dont think Scotsman use to brake as late as Snowman, and i dont think it has so much to do with R33 vs R34 or driver ability as it did tight susp vs sloppy std stuff.

They were dead even yesterday now that they have basically the same mods. On paper Scotsmans brakes are as good as Snowmans for about 2-3 laps, then the aluminium hats and better cooling of Snowmans should mean his resist fade better.

But GTRs do come with the good stuff factory, while us GTST owners have to hunt around part stores to retro fit the good bits to our cars:(

In a GTR when the ATTESSA kicks in does it upset the line of the car much. I know in slow corners when it kicks in the things start to understeer (Turn 2 and 9 at Easter Creek) On the quick stuff though can you keep yor foot planted and hold your line?!?!?!

I think so much advantage of the GTR comes back to the RB26 and great chassis, it has less to do with the 4wd. Oh and show me a GTST with 17" 255 rubber all round:)

If we were doing 35 laps and needed to look after our tyres then yes the GTR would come into its own. For the sake of a few laps around the track i dont think the 4wd (especially the way ATTESSA is set up from the factory) there is much advantage...

[Roy]

Having 4WD does not compensate enough for having semi slicks. The cornering G's of 4WD are nowhere near RWD with slicks! Lets not forget how much later you can brake..  

Thats the line im towing and im sticking with it:) Traction may be similar, but braking and lateral grip woudlnt compare (well at least thats what i think)

[Duncan]

absolutely. rwd with semis > 4wd with road tyres. any day.

Adzmax, are you running semis as well? they make a hge difference to braking, much more than the size of the calipers or discs.

[Abo Bob]

I've found my brakes work a treat. Gtst's fading while I keep up the laps.

Never had any fade at all.

I guess I'm not going fast enough hehe.

I've been having a think about this and I reckon the only things I could think of were when us RWD drivers break traction coming out of a corner we have to ride it out or back off, both will slow us down BUT when a 4WD breaks traction coming out of a corner all you do is point the car and floor it and the torque splitter does the rest, thats enough cheating in my opinion.

Oh another funny ones is when you have a GTR driver in the passenger seat and they say "break later, break later". The GTS-T and GTT breaks sure don't hold up like the GTR's. Any later and my car would be a smear on the wall, well an even bigger one than it is

[fatz]

yea stop driving like a ***** abo

[adznight]

Driving like a girly girl racer your right, I don't experience any brake fade but when I decide to step up and really push it I'm breaking a hell of a lot later and harder, thats when brakes start to crack the poo's.

I was running street's last weekend and your right, that has a hell of a lot to do with it.

One thing though, are you trying to tell me that a GTS-T/GT-T with semi's can go round corners as quick as a GTR with semi's?

[Silver-Arrowz]

GTR with semi's should be quicker than a GTST/GTT with semi's.

Semi's not only offer better grip but the sidewalls are MUCH stiffer, giving much better feedback.